Is social distancing even possible at universities?

[Anonymous]

College is still at least three months way. I hope that a lot happens between now and then that makes it possible for college students (and educators) to feel comfortable on campus if that’s the college experience the students and their families chose and are paying for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

Most full time professors (not instructors or adjuncts) work more than 60 hours a week. Just about all weekends.

This forum must not know a SINGLE academic. They keep throwing around images of a cushy lifestyle and they are absolutely clueless.

I know several professors and while it is rough for untenured and adjunct faculty, once you are tenured, it is pretty darn cushy. Good gig if you can get it.

This is an outdated perception. Profs have annual evaluations like every other job and have to document that they have gotten and managed research grants, ran programs, designed and taught courses, mentored and advised students, written publications, reviewed publications and grants, served on dozens of committees etc. The pay is relatively low for the degree of education required and the cutthroat competitiveness of becoming a tenured faculty. Profs want to do it for the love of their subject, love of teaching and/or love of relative autonomy of the job.

This. It is low pay and a lot of work for untenured. Once you are tenured you are on the gravy train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

The problem is that the number of students enrolled in the class do not remotely fit in the classrooms if they all have to be at least 6 feet apart. Only about 25% could attend that way. So for a typical twice a week course, students would attend class once every other week. You can’t do two different groups on the same day because it doesn’t leave any time to clean the room in between groups (something my university has said they are planning). And if you have to stay 6 feet apart that pretty much limits you to lecturing. No group work, no checking students’ work over their shoulders. What is even the point? College students might say they want the accountability of being there is person. But it is not a necessity for learning. Online learning requires discipline and self motivation. Much like teleworking.

The reality is that school for younger kids serves a childcare function. College does not. Professors are not essential workers just because you want them to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

The reality is, as much as we talk about how much it could work if everyone wears masks and social distance, at most colleges after the first 1-2 weeks it will look like that Lake of the Ozarks picture from Memorial Day weekend. Kids this age in mass are not developmentally at the point of maintaining the long view and will quickly degenerate into parties, friend gatherings, close contact of all kinds outside the classroom, will lose their mask, etc.

The only way for it to really work being on campus is once the kids go, they stay there. No coming home until possibly end of 1st semester and maybe not even then, potentially until the end of the school year or things improve COVID-wise. Figure out a way to put an effective social distancing buffer between the kids and the instructors, dining workers, administration, etc. Have a quarantine dorm for those that test positive. Acknowledge that these kids are going to congregate and plan accordingly. Otherwise it will quickly degenerate into super-spreading and the governors will take action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

The reality is, as much as we talk about how much it could work if everyone wears masks and social distance, at most colleges after the first 1-2 weeks it will look like that Lake of the Ozarks picture from Memorial Day weekend. Kids this age in mass are not developmentally at the point of maintaining the long view and will quickly degenerate into parties, friend gatherings, close contact of all kinds outside the classroom, will lose their mask, etc.

The only way for it to really work being on campus is once the kids go, they stay there. No coming home until possibly end of 1st semester and maybe not even then, potentially until the end of the school year or things improve COVID-wise. Figure out a way to put an effective social distancing buffer between the kids and the instructors, dining workers, administration, etc. Have a quarantine dorm for those that test positive. Acknowledge that these kids are going to congregate and plan accordingly. Otherwise it will quickly degenerate into super-spreading and the governors will take action.

^^Acknowledging that super-spreading among kids should be ok due to their age group, and keep the higher-risk adults buffered. If your child is high-risk, online learning options until things get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

The reality is, as much as we talk about how much it could work if everyone wears masks and social distance, at most colleges after the first 1-2 weeks it will look like that Lake of the Ozarks picture from Memorial Day weekend. Kids this age in mass are not developmentally at the point of maintaining the long view and will quickly degenerate into parties, friend gatherings, close contact of all kinds outside the classroom, will lose their mask, etc.

The only way for it to really work being on campus is once the kids go, they stay there. No coming home until possibly end of 1st semester and maybe not even then, potentially until the end of the school year or things improve COVID-wise. Figure out a way to put an effective social distancing buffer between the kids and the instructors, dining workers, administration, etc. Have a quarantine dorm for those that test positive. Acknowledge that these kids are going to congregate and plan accordingly. Otherwise it will quickly degenerate into super-spreading and the governors will take action.

^^Acknowledging that super-spreading among kids should be ok due to their age group, and keep the higher-risk adults buffered. If your child is high-risk, online learning options until things get better.

The faculty, dining hall staff, janitorial staff etc will have to work amongst these superspreaders and infect their families and communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

Why the f$&k can people not remember that their snowflakes are not the only ones on a college campus?????

+100. Probably at least 15% of people on a college campus each day do not fall into the student/grad student age group.

Then change careers. Educators have become essential workers. From childcare on up, education absolutely must continue. This is not a job that can be done remotely, so those who cannot take any risk of being in a public space at all, should change careers.

That's ridiculous! College education can absolutely be done remotely in many (though by far not all) fields. It just takes more dedication by both the student and the faculty. It isn't perfect - but if it saves lives, it is absolutely worthwhile. Indeed, if higher education in many subjects can't be done remotely, no job that requires human interaction can. Take a look at the videos of those (mostly young) people partying in pools in the Lake of Ozark. Would you want to teach them in an indoor classroom the following week if you are in your 50s with a high-risk spouse and 3 kids of your own?
My 10 year old is taking online classes voluntarily and is flourishing.

75% of the education experience from birth to 18 is developing social competencies. If all education is done in a home bubble, there is no hope for society. College provides an especially important step between dependence and independence.

And I am 58. Next week I will be back at work in a classroom full of the children of essential workers. I did not sign up for a high risk career either, but here we are. If the mall is open, if Disney is opening, if in just a few weeks, groups of 50 will be allowed, there is no way to justify canceling a situation in which students can sit 6 feet apart and wear masks.

The reality is, as much as we talk about how much it could work if everyone wears masks and social distance, at most colleges after the first 1-2 weeks it will look like that Lake of the Ozarks picture from Memorial Day weekend. Kids this age in mass are not developmentally at the point of maintaining the long view and will quickly degenerate into parties, friend gatherings, close contact of all kinds outside the classroom, will lose their mask, etc.

The only way for it to really work being on campus is once the kids go, they stay there. No coming home until possibly end of 1st semester and maybe not even then, potentially until the end of the school year or things improve COVID-wise. Figure out a way to put an effective social distancing buffer between the kids and the instructors, dining workers, administration, etc. Have a quarantine dorm for those that test positive. Acknowledge that these kids are going to congregate and plan accordingly. Otherwise it will quickly degenerate into super-spreading and the governors will take action.

^^Acknowledging that super-spreading among kids should be ok due to their age group, and keep the higher-risk adults buffered. If your child is high-risk, online learning options until things get better.

The faculty, dining hall staff, janitorial staff etc will have to work amongst these superspreaders and infect their families and communities.

Which is why they need to figure out how to buffer the students from the non-students. Otherwise students are not going to be diligent enough for it to work.