Is social distancing even possible at universities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope. But isn’t their age group least impacted?[/quote]

It may be, although I know two teens right now fighting for their lives at Fairfax Hospital and NIH. But putting risk to their group aside, we are talking about teens living together in close confines in dorms and infecting one another then spreading to the workers of the university, the dining hall staff, the professors, the older professors, the poorer staff. And then out into the community. Also think of asymptomatic students walking around in the adjacent community buying things and dining out - that then spreads to the local community that supports the university. To open too soon is to jeopardize all those people and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why didn’t we have more cases of sick college employees , students and professors in March and April. Or did we? I mean this virus was all over the place in February and early March. Schools didn’t send kids home til the end of March. I’d love to see the data on people who had direct contact with either college students or employees who were infected as well. I know we can’t do actual contact tracing now. But even antidotally to find out how many people who are x degrees of separation From someone at a university for very sick or died.

We didn't. Because our universities decided to shut down right after spring break around March 6th. I was surprised when UVA said students should not return at all but that proved to be a very smart decision. Harvard started the ball and the others followed. The point wasn't to even allow the students who had gone overseas or (ugh, Miami for beach week) to return because by then they were probably carriers. I don't know when you are getting your data about the end of March. By then our two college students had been home three weeks working in our basement.

Depends on the school and their spring break. No one even announced shutting down until March 9-10-11 in Boston area and were not actually off campus until closer to March 15; many later. High schools were open another week after that.

There were a ton of kids "sick" in Feb at my kid's Boston-area college, so many that a few of her classes that last week of Feb had been cancelled by the prof for too many being absent for one, and yes, for the prof being sick for another. (Prof is fine.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why didn’t we have more cases of sick college employees , students and professors in March and April. Or did we? I mean this virus was all over the place in February and early March. Schools didn’t send kids home til the end of March. I’d love to see the data on people who had direct contact with either college students or employees who were infected as well. I know we can’t do actual contact tracing now. But even antidotally to find out how many people who are x degrees of separation From someone at a university for very sick or died.

We didn't. Because our universities decided to shut down right after spring break around March 6th. I was surprised when UVA said students should not return at all but that proved to be a very smart decision. Harvard started the ball and the others followed. The point wasn't to even allow the students who had gone overseas or (ugh, Miami for beach week) to return because by then they were probably carriers. I don't know when you are getting your data about the end of March. By then our two college students had been home three weeks working in our basement.

Depends on the school and their spring break. No one even announced shutting down until March 9-10-11 in Boston area and were not actually off campus until closer to March 15; many later. High schools were open another week after that.

There were a ton of kids "sick" in Feb at my kid's Boston-area college, so many that a few of her classes that last week of Feb had been cancelled by the prof for too many being absent for one, and yes, for the prof being sick for another. (Prof is fine.)

Harvard announced March 10th. https://qz.com/1815829/harvard-university-is-shutting-down-because-of-coronavirus/. UVA started notices on Jan. 24. GMU shortly thereafter (I had a student there who I feared was exposed to one of the first on-campus cases in Jan. - turned out to be false). UVA told students not to travel internationally on March 3. https://news.virginia.edu/content/latest-updates-uvas-response-coronavirus#jan-24.

[Anonymous]

Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

[Anonymous]

Don't forget that transmission is a product of exposure and viral load. There was community spread at varying amounts in Feb and March. The way a virus becomes established is being able to infect enough hosts to not die off. Once more hosts are infected they not only have contact with more potential hosts but potential hosts get exposed to the virus more times.

Its less likely that students traveling home from a small college in Montana brought the virus home to South Dakota -though they may have been exposed in the airport. Its far more likely that students traveling from more urban areas back to rural areas did introduce the virus there. No one will no because the US did not have its act together for testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

Most full time professors (not instructors or adjuncts) work more than 60 hours a week. Just about all weekends.

This forum must not know a SINGLE academic. They keep throwing around images of a cushy lifestyle and they are absolutely clueless.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think we can control this, but I think those that want to return to University should and waivers should be mandatory for those that do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

Most full time professors (not instructors or adjuncts) work more than 60 hours a week. Just about all weekends.

This forum must not know a SINGLE academic. They keep throwing around images of a cushy lifestyle and they are absolutely clueless.

In my town at the University it is very common for the professors to show up on campus around 3 hours a week. Many run second businesses on government time that are pretty profitable in the medical/stem fields.
A lot of the teaching is done by the T.A.s.

At the community college in town (this has 30,000 students) the professors work more hours.

[Anonymous]

If you are right (and you don't really know what they are doing off campus), then the leadership of that school (and the Board of Regents) are not doing their job.

MOST academics work very hard. They are ALWAYS scrambling for their next grant (or they lose their job), they have to write papers on their own time. They prepare lectures, work with struggling students, grade, judge student contests, present to other scientists, staff numerous committees (this is called "service:" they are tasked with curriculum reform, accreditation, search committees, promotion, governance, etc). It is not leisurely.

[Anonymous]

The big unknown is whether mask wearing will make a dent in the transmission. The home made masks and bandanas are not very effective. If colleges were able to distribute the surgical masks that are closer to 75% effective and require students to wear them it would be better but the US does not have enough PPE to do this. Mask compliance is another issue. I can't tell you how many old men and young guys I see in the grocery stores with their masks on but pulled below their noses. Off tangent but what is with old and young dudes not being able to figure this out. Women and men in their 30s-50s seem to get it but the old guys and 20s-teenager guys seem not to be capable of this.

If masks are not that effective because of compliance or wrong materials then the implications of colleges returning are massive. Most colleges like to have representation from all 50 states so when everyone travels home if there is widely circulating COVID in any schools you have just introduced it back into all 50 states. Colleges located in rural areas present the risk of overwhelming small healthcare facilities or infecting the local population. Colleges in urban areas add to new transmission vectors in an already dense at risk environment. Colleges in cooler climates will have people spending more time indoors starting in October and transmission rates could skyrocket only to shut down and send the student back out to all 50 states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like even though prisons and hospitals had huge outbreaks. Colleges and universities didn’t.

Because they all shut down early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like even though prisons and hospitals had huge outbreaks. Colleges and universities didn’t.

Because they all shut down early.

+1 I thought it was overkill in late Feb./early March. I was wrong. The universities made the right call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why didn’t we have more cases of sick college employees , students and professors in March and April. Or did we? I mean this virus was all over the place in February and early March. Schools didn’t send kids home til the end of March. I’d love to see the data on people who had direct contact with either college students or employees who were infected as well. I know we can’t do actual contact tracing now. But even antidotally to find out how many people who are x degrees of separation From someone at a university for very sick or died.

All colleges closed by mid march, when cases in the entire US were still in the hundreds.

Please educate yourself PP. Anyone following the news is well aware that community spread was under way in February in many cities in the U.S. with thousands of infected individuals in New York city in alone in February. Of course there were many New York college students infected in February.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/us/coronavirus-early-outbreaks-cities.html?referringSource=articleShare

New York City isn't Ann Arbor.
New York City isn't Charlottesville
New York City isn't Urbana
New York City isn't a whole lot of small college towns all over the country.

[Anonymous]

I also think that colleges know that they can't achieve social distancing but financially can not afford not to open. They need to bring students back to collect tuition checks, have the states shut them down and then keep the tuition as an Act of God measure in the contract. They may prepare to refund room and board but they need to keep the tuition and not reduce because its online.

They'll have students sign waivers to return to avoid liability and may offer students who are afraid to come back an on-line option at full cost.