Is social distancing even possible at universities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think that colleges know that they can't achieve social distancing but financially can not afford not to open. They need to bring students back to collect tuition checks, have the states shut them down and then keep the tuition as an Act of God measure in the contract. They may prepare to refund room and board but they need to keep the tuition and not reduce because its online.

They'll have students sign waivers to return to avoid liability and may offer students who are afraid to come back an on-line option at full cost.

PP is spot-on. It is all about $$$. I wonder about how food services will handle things without buffets and salad bars, as no responsible institution should be allowing those.

[Anonymous]

"Can't"? "Not possible"?

Bullshit. These are not kindergarten kids.

The students might not want to, but it is totally pissible.

[Anonymous]

On top of the money, the parents are demanding it. Look at this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On top of the money, the parents are demanding it. Look at this forum.

And why not. I don't want my 20 year old DC here yet another semester doing virtual learning and then going out to see friends on the weekend at restaurants and theaters, and then come home and pass the virus to our family. Yes...send him to campus so we can be safe. We pay enough for it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think that colleges know that they can't achieve social distancing but financially can not afford not to open. They need to bring students back to collect tuition checks, have the states shut them down and then keep the tuition as an Act of God measure in the contract. They may prepare to refund room and board but they need to keep the tuition and not reduce because its online.

They'll have students sign waivers to return to avoid liability and may offer students who are afraid to come back an on-line option at full cost.

+1. Exactly right.

[Anonymous]

There are several ways colleges are going to try to enforce social distancing.

Every student gets a single.

You have a scheduled time to shower in am so students are spaced out. Students have to be off of cleaning and disinfecting.

Dorms for quarantined students who test positive. M

Tests administered to all students upon arrival at the college

Masks mandatory.

No gatherings larger than 10.

Spacing in cafeterias and to go options.

Classes are broken into groups so social distancing can be observed in classrooms — such as group A is in person on Mon while group B is in person on Weds. On the day you aren’t in person you participate remotely.

Etc.

[Anonymous]

There are several ways colleges are going to try to enforce social distancing.

Every student gets a single. This would reduce by student housing by 50-70%. Most colleges have very few singles and often have doubles and even suites with 4-5 students.

You have a scheduled time to shower in am so students are spaced out. Students have to be off of cleaning and disinfecting. Would only work if they showers twice a week, for a 3 minutes only and start at 3 am. Most college students are not ready for navy procedures plus the bathrooms have sinks and toilets. Hard to schedule when you have to pee.


Dorms for quarantined students who test positive. M Again, the schools do not have extra empty dorms sitting around.

Tests administered to all students upon arrival at the college Not nearly enough testing materials to do this plus the logistics of testing 5K-50K students is impractical.

Masks mandatory. Sure masks will be mandatory but the cloth masks and bandanas are not very effective plus the practice of pulling your mask done defeats any type of mask.

No gatherings larger than 10. There go in person classes. Are you expecting a surge in available classrooms and new buildings along with an army of adjuncts. In some schools lecture halls are filled with 200+ students.

Spacing in cafeterias and to go options. To go is fine but where are they are going to sit and eat?

Classes are broken into groups so social distancing can be observed in classrooms — such as group A is in person on Mon while group B is in person on Weds. On the day you aren’t in person you participate remotely.

Only pragmatic if you substantially cut down the number of students. Many in fact most classes only meet for twice a week and most classes are over 50 people with the exception of seminar style courses. Maybe each student goes to "class" once a month but what is the point of being there then.

None of this is remotely possible if you bring all the students back. Schools would need to only bring back 25%-30% of their student body, which is what Harvard medical is doing. The only students on campus in classes will be second year students which is 25%. Medical schools have a natural differential in that 3rd and 4th year students are on rounds in a hospital or in labs. A similar distinction does not exist across undergraduate and graduate programs or law schools. Schools will not be able to determine who gets to come back and who has to stay home.

[Anonymous]

Let's take an average top 15, small town/rural LAC.

2000 students, 200-250 are international, and will not be on campus.

So we're talking about 1750 students in housing for 2000. That opens space. They lease the 2 motels that are adjacent to campus for the duration of the year which provides more singles. The smallest dorm is for students who are under isolation due to exposure. A wing in another dorm is designated for students who are at risk due to their own immune system issues.

Rather than 4 classes a semester, students take 2 classes for the first half of the term and 2 for the second. Each class will thus meet 4x per week, and half the class will be in person M-T and the others will be W-Th. As a small LAC, most classes are seminars with about 20 students. They will offer more sections of their bigger intro classes so students can be socially distanced.

To include students in isolation and international students, all classes will be in person and online simultaneously. At this college, because it is a small LAC, 90% of classes have 25 or fewer students

They will add a third cafeteria and longer times for meals, to discourage crowds. Students could take food to go, and eat outside, in dorms etc. There will be limits on how many students can be in a cafeteria at any one time, same as some retail stores now.

The college will test all students upon arrival (this is being piloted at UCSD now, to see how long it will take and what the capacity at labs off campus are).

A new cadre of student jobs will exist - contact tracers. The creepy apps that track which students are showing up to classes may be used to instead track where students who test positive have been and who they were with.

My point is there is no universal solution or decision -- and each college is going to look at their own circumstances, the state where they are, nearby ICU capacity and testing.

[Anonymous]

I think the 4-years on campus model may shift. More emphasis on off campus internships and maybe one year or semester done remotely or something. Maybe a mandatory foreign semester overseas.

All designed to keep 100% of the enrollment but not have 100% of the kids on campus at any one time.

[Anonymous]

Interesting thread from a professor at Grinnell https://twitter.com/RandyRenstrom/status/1262039008693059585

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

Most full time professors (not instructors or adjuncts) work more than 60 hours a week. Just about all weekends.

This forum must not know a SINGLE academic. They keep throwing around images of a cushy lifestyle and they are absolutely clueless.

I know several professors and while it is rough for untenured and adjunct faculty, once you are tenured, it is pretty darn cushy. Good gig if you can get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Well, the professors barely show up so it is certainly possible for the professors. Many professors average like 3 hours a week on campus pre covid.

[/b]


Why do you post negative stuff like this?

Most full time professors (not instructors or adjuncts) work more than 60 hours a week. Just about all weekends.

This forum must not know a SINGLE academic. They keep throwing around images of a cushy lifestyle and they are absolutely clueless.

I know several professors and while it is rough for untenured and adjunct faculty, once you are tenured, it is pretty darn cushy. Good gig if you can get it.

This. It is low pay and a lot of work for untenured. Once you are tenured you are on the gravy train.

[Anonymous]

Why can’t students socially distance and try to keep to themselves for two weeks on arrival. Then they should stay on campus and not roam around outside. Assuming they catch positive cases early, the campus should be relatively well protected. Although I guess faculty and workers could bring the virus in from outside. This model may work for small SLACs where students all live on campus

[Anonymous]

Your kid is 128 times more likely to die from an accident on the drive to college and more likely to die from the standard flu.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-on-kids-and-covid-11590017095?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

"During these times parents and doctors need to be especially vigilant. But as a society we also need to keep in mind that the risks to children from the coronavirus are small, especially relative to others. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity projects that children under 15 are 6.83 to 20.07 times more likely to die of the flu or pneumonia than coronavirus—assuming 150,000 Covid-19 fatalities in the U.S. this year—and 128 times more likely to die of an accident."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t students socially distance and try to keep to themselves for two weeks on arrival. Then they should stay on campus and not roam around outside. Assuming they catch positive cases early, the campus should be relatively well protected. Although I guess faculty and workers could bring the virus in from outside. This model may work for small SLACs where students all live on campus

They should socially distance and wear masks when in groups and inside. But they should actually spend lots of time outside since the virus is less catchy outdoors. Maybe even some classes or study groups could happen outside and meals could be outside. Under tents even ...just a thought. Since the weather should still be nice the first two months .....