APS - First Career Center Concept

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
If Arlington is going to essentially claim street parking surrounding this school as a county resource by banning or removing any and all neighborhood parking restrictions, does that mean that they will also do so in all other Arlington neighborhoods that have them?

There is certainly a problem if only certain neighborhoods lose protected parking but others don't.


That’s the collective chuckle from Yorktown. That whole neighborhood is restricted parking. No way will they ever lose it.


If Career Center is built without a garage I will spend all of my time lobbying for a County-wide ban on restricted parking within a mile of all schools.


I never understand people that take this tactic: "things suck for me, so they have to suck for you too. Because equity!" You know that making things sucky for other people in no way makes your life any better, right? What a silly thing to spend "all of [your] time" on.

Also, as someone who lives on a street with restricted parking right next to a busy commercial district, I can attest to the fact that the county does not enforce parking restrictions. Cars are parked outside my house all day, every day, long past the time limits. So this fight is even more of a waste of time.

I mean the prevailing viewpoint in North Arlington seems to be "things are awesome for me. I'm ignore that things suck for you and act like anything South of 50 is its own self-contained County." I think if half the stuff the County pulls on South Arlington was ever tried in North Arlington there would be massive pushback. Imagine if literally anything about the Career Center was being tried north of Lee Highway. It would have been shut down immediately.

Since South Arlington has no political clout and thanks to County entrenched housing policy will never accumulate the wealth to change that, the best possible play is to push, hard, for every negative thing happening in the South to happen equally in the North with the hope that it will lead to county-wide solutions.

This is sad but true. Until people of importance feel the pain, nothing will ever change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
If Arlington is going to essentially claim street parking surrounding this school as a county resource by banning or removing any and all neighborhood parking restrictions, does that mean that they will also do so in all other Arlington neighborhoods that have them?

There is certainly a problem if only certain neighborhoods lose protected parking but others don't.


That’s the collective chuckle from Yorktown. That whole neighborhood is restricted parking. No way will they ever lose it.


If Career Center is built without a garage I will spend all of my time lobbying for a County-wide ban on restricted parking within a mile of all schools.


I never understand people that take this tactic: "things suck for me, so they have to suck for you too. Because equity!" You know that making things sucky for other people in no way makes your life any better, right? What a silly thing to spend "all of [your] time" on.

Also, as someone who lives on a street with restricted parking right next to a busy commercial district, I can attest to the fact that the county does not enforce parking restrictions. Cars are parked outside my house all day, every day, long past the time limits. So this fight is even more of a waste of time.

I mean the prevailing viewpoint in North Arlington seems to be "things are awesome for me. I'm ignore that things suck for you and act like anything South of 50 is its own self-contained County." I think if half the stuff the County pulls on South Arlington was ever tried in North Arlington there would be massive pushback. Imagine if literally anything about the Career Center was being tried north of Lee Highway. It would have been shut down immediately.

Since South Arlington has no political clout and thanks to County entrenched housing policy will never accumulate the wealth to change that, the best possible play is to push, hard, for every negative thing happening in the South to happen equally in the North with the hope that it will lead to county-wide solutions.

This is sad but true. Until people of importance feel the pain, nothing will ever change.

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
If Arlington is going to essentially claim street parking surrounding this school as a county resource by banning or removing any and all neighborhood parking restrictions, does that mean that they will also do so in all other Arlington neighborhoods that have them?

There is certainly a problem if only certain neighborhoods lose protected parking but others don't.


That’s the collective chuckle from Yorktown. That whole neighborhood is restricted parking. No way will they ever lose it.


If Career Center is built without a garage I will spend all of my time lobbying for a County-wide ban on restricted parking within a mile of all schools.


I never understand people that take this tactic: "things suck for me, so they have to suck for you too. Because equity!" You know that making things sucky for other people in no way makes your life any better, right? What a silly thing to spend "all of [your] time" on.

Also, as someone who lives on a street with restricted parking right next to a busy commercial district, I can attest to the fact that the county does not enforce parking restrictions. Cars are parked outside my house all day, every day, long past the time limits. So this fight is even more of a waste of time.

I mean the prevailing viewpoint in North Arlington seems to be "things are awesome for me. I'm ignore that things suck for you and act like anything South of 50 is its own self-contained County." I think if half the stuff the County pulls on South Arlington was ever tried in North Arlington there would be massive pushback. Imagine if literally anything about the Career Center was being tried north of Lee Highway. It would have been shut down immediately.

Since South Arlington has no political clout and thanks to County entrenched housing policy will never accumulate the wealth to change that, the best possible play is to push, hard, for every negative thing happening in the South to happen equally in the North with the hope that it will lead to county-wide solutions.

Yes, in fact things are so awesome for NA that many feel guilty about it. That’s why they build AH, to feel less guilty about living the high life. Not guilty enough to build it in their own backyard, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Community meeting tonight at the Career Center, 7-9, come see plans, ask questions, demand parking

And tell APS and the County that they’re not going to steal money from this project. If they don’t spend the money on parking, they can build additional facilities on this exact site, or improve what’s currently there in a shorter timeline, but NO FUNDS shall be diverted to other projects. It’s the CC’s turn. The Pike is sick and tired of being an afterthought and having money diverted to “more important” neighborhoods.

You GO!!
+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

You think dozens of students can get to and from the CC to other schools, homes and places of work at various times during the weekday? You obviously don’t ride public transit yourself, at least not in that area. We may be “urban” but we don’t have the public transit to match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

1. This isn't a particularly centrally located area, it is no where near a metro. The bus rides up Columbia pike can be long and cumbersome with frequent stops. Bus service along Columbia Pike has been decreased. And the county/Army are about to rip up the road between the Pentagon and Columbia pike as part of the cemetery expansion. Bottom line commuting via public transportation will be too time consuming to be a viable option for many.

2. Many teacher and staff don't live in Arlington (can't afford to) and could not easily commute via public transportation even if they wanted to. We are talking teachers who live in Loudoun County, in Maryland, in Prince William County. These people don't want to add 20 -30 minutes to their day circling the neighborhood looking for parking and then walking to the school.
Teachers often have to carry lots of papers/heavy things back and forth between their class and their car.
Lack of dedicated parking impacts their willingness to work at specific schools. Lack of parking negatively impacts teacher retention and hiring. This has already been an issue at Fleet for the same reason.

3. Other Arlington schools do offer parking. So teachers can take a job at Fleet or the CCHS just to get in the door with APS and then request a transfer to another Arlington school that does offer parking. This imposes higher turnover rate, less experienced teachers and less teacher stability on the students of those schools compared to the rest of the County.

4. Substitute teachers are at a premium and won't work at schools that don't offer parking. Again this is already a problem at Fleet. What will the school do without a viable pool of subs. How will that impact student instruction.

5. There isn't alot of neighborhood parking and that particular neighborhood also has to absorb parking from Fleet which was purposely built under parked, TJ Middle School and TJ Community Center. The site in question is the Career Center High School, Montessori Elementary school and a County Library. There is not enough street parking in that neighborhood to absorb parking from 4 different schools and 2 different community buildings. So where will people go?

6. The entire concept of CTE requires kids to be able to get from their other school to the CCHS and then back to their home school during the day. Some parents have said that the bus schedule does not work to make the classes they want/need and they wait until their kids are driving age and able to go back and forth between the Career center and their home high school via their own transportation. Removing parking serves as a barrier to kids attending CTE classes.

7. Arlington Tech is hemorrhaging kids who cannot make their class schedule and busing work to get back to their home school for extra curricular, music, and sports. Some kids are willing to suck it up and stay until they are able to drive under the belief that it will be easier once they can drive. If the logistics of going to school there don't allow kids to participate in activities at their home school for the whole of their high school experience, less kids are going to volunteer to go to school there.

8. teachers and students could possible park in private garages for a fee. This imposes a cost on teachers and students only at that school vs. additional availability at other schools. Again students and teachers have the option to move elsewhere and will over something like an imposed extra cost.

The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??

If Arlington spends millions on a bet that 2,000 kids are willing to go there and they aren't, what happens? Who gets forced there? Or have we spent ridiculous amounts of money on a school that sits half empty with constant teacher turnover cause the county can't force anyone to attend/work there.

Please stop claiming its hard to get to the CC. That's a straight up lie. So many buses pass by this school and its 2 miles to the Pentagon or Ballston/Clarendon. In fact, I get from that stop to the Pentagon in less than 10 minutes. It will be even quicker coming the other way. If it's such a horrible site, we shouldn't be putting a school there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

You think dozens of students can get to and from the CC to other schools, homes and places of work at various times during the weekday? You obviously don’t ride public transit yourself, at least not in that area. We may be “urban” but we don’t have the public transit to match.

And, by your logic. We suddenly found more space for classrooms! The surface and garage parking of every single school in APS! That’s a few dozen new buildings. You’re a genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

I will support this as soon as APS cancels the parking garage they plan to build for HB Woodlawn, and commits to building a new middle school right smack on top of the Yorktown and WL parking lots. Oh, and when they cancel the parking structure built for the Lubber Run community center and the Aquatics center.

Man it’s weird how much parking APS has and the county wants to build when you list it all. Yet once we’re talking about the Pike we’re told it’s such an urban county and we should just accept it. Weird...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

1. This isn't a particularly centrally located area, it is no where near a metro. The bus rides up Columbia pike can be long and cumbersome with frequent stops. Bus service along Columbia Pike has been decreased. And the county/Army are about to rip up the road between the Pentagon and Columbia pike as part of the cemetery expansion. Bottom line commuting via public transportation will be too time consuming to be a viable option for many.

2. Many teacher and staff don't live in Arlington (can't afford to) and could not easily commute via public transportation even if they wanted to. We are talking teachers who live in Loudoun County, in Maryland, in Prince William County. These people don't want to add 20 -30 minutes to their day circling the neighborhood looking for parking and then walking to the school.
Teachers often have to carry lots of papers/heavy things back and forth between their class and their car.
Lack of dedicated parking impacts their willingness to work at specific schools. Lack of parking negatively impacts teacher retention and hiring. This has already been an issue at Fleet for the same reason.

3. Other Arlington schools do offer parking. So teachers can take a job at Fleet or the CCHS just to get in the door with APS and then request a transfer to another Arlington school that does offer parking. This imposes higher turnover rate, less experienced teachers and less teacher stability on the students of those schools compared to the rest of the County.

4. Substitute teachers are at a premium and won't work at schools that don't offer parking. Again this is already a problem at Fleet. What will the school do without a viable pool of subs. How will that impact student instruction.

5. There isn't alot of neighborhood parking and that particular neighborhood also has to absorb parking from Fleet which was purposely built under parked, TJ Middle School and TJ Community Center. The site in question is the Career Center High School, Montessori Elementary school and a County Library. There is not enough street parking in that neighborhood to absorb parking from 4 different schools and 2 different community buildings. So where will people go?

6. The entire concept of CTE requires kids to be able to get from their other school to the CCHS and then back to their home school during the day. Some parents have said that the bus schedule does not work to make the classes they want/need and they wait until their kids are driving age and able to go back and forth between the Career center and their home high school via their own transportation. Removing parking serves as a barrier to kids attending CTE classes.

7. Arlington Tech is hemorrhaging kids who cannot make their class schedule and busing work to get back to their home school for extra curricular, music, and sports. Some kids are willing to suck it up and stay until they are able to drive under the belief that it will be easier once they can drive. If the logistics of going to school there don't allow kids to participate in activities at their home school for the whole of their high school experience, less kids are going to volunteer to go to school there.

8. teachers and students could possible park in private garages for a fee. This imposes a cost on teachers and students only at that school vs. additional availability at other schools. Again students and teachers have the option to move elsewhere and will over something like an imposed extra cost.

The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??

If Arlington spends millions on a bet that 2,000 kids are willing to go there and they aren't, what happens? Who gets forced there? Or have we spent ridiculous amounts of money on a school that sits half empty with constant teacher turnover cause the county can't force anyone to attend/work there.

Please stop claiming its hard to get to the CC. That's a straight up lie. So many buses pass by this school and its 2 miles to the Pentagon or Ballston/Clarendon. In fact, I get from that stop to the Pentagon in less than 10 minutes. It will be even quicker coming the other way. If it's such a horrible site, we shouldn't be putting a school there.

Yeah. On a morning express bus. Try riding it outside of rush hour, when students would need to get there from other schools to the north and south, not along Columbia pike. Last time I checked, not too many APS students commuting from culmore and the pentagon to the CC at rush hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Arlington is going to essentially claim street parking surrounding this school as a county resource by banning or removing any and all neighborhood parking restrictions, does that mean that they will also do so in all other Arlington neighborhoods that have them?

There is certainly a problem if only certain neighborhoods lose protected parking but others don't.


That’s the collective chuckle from Yorktown. That whole neighborhood is restricted parking. No way will they ever lose it.

If Career Center is built without a garage I will spend all of my time lobbying for a County-wide ban on restricted parking within a mile of all schools.

I never understand people that take this tactic: "things suck for me, so they have to suck for you too. Because equity!" You know that making things sucky for other people in no way makes your life any better, right? What a silly thing to spend "all of [your] time" on.

Also, as someone who lives on a street with restricted parking right next to a busy commercial district, I can attest to the fact that the county does not enforce parking restrictions. Cars are parked outside my house all day, every day, long past the time limits. So this fight is even more of a waste of time.

+100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

1. This isn't a particularly centrally located area, it is no where near a metro. The bus rides up Columbia pike can be long and cumbersome with frequent stops. Bus service along Columbia Pike has been decreased. And the county/Army are about to rip up the road between the Pentagon and Columbia pike as part of the cemetery expansion. Bottom line commuting via public transportation will be too time consuming to be a viable option for many.

2. Many teacher and staff don't live in Arlington (can't afford to) and could not easily commute via public transportation even if they wanted to. We are talking teachers who live in Loudoun County, in Maryland, in Prince William County. These people don't want to add 20 -30 minutes to their day circling the neighborhood looking for parking and then walking to the school.
Teachers often have to carry lots of papers/heavy things back and forth between their class and their car.
Lack of dedicated parking impacts their willingness to work at specific schools. Lack of parking negatively impacts teacher retention and hiring. This has already been an issue at Fleet for the same reason.

3. Other Arlington schools do offer parking. So teachers can take a job at Fleet or the CCHS just to get in the door with APS and then request a transfer to another Arlington school that does offer parking. This imposes higher turnover rate, less experienced teachers and less teacher stability on the students of those schools compared to the rest of the County.

4. Substitute teachers are at a premium and won't work at schools that don't offer parking. Again this is already a problem at Fleet. What will the school do without a viable pool of subs. How will that impact student instruction.

5. There isn't alot of neighborhood parking and that particular neighborhood also has to absorb parking from Fleet which was purposely built under parked, TJ Middle School and TJ Community Center. The site in question is the Career Center High School, Montessori Elementary school and a County Library. There is not enough street parking in that neighborhood to absorb parking from 4 different schools and 2 different community buildings. So where will people go?

6. The entire concept of CTE requires kids to be able to get from their other school to the CCHS and then back to their home school during the day. Some parents have said that the bus schedule does not work to make the classes they want/need and they wait until their kids are driving age and able to go back and forth between the Career center and their home high school via their own transportation. Removing parking serves as a barrier to kids attending CTE classes.

7. Arlington Tech is hemorrhaging kids who cannot make their class schedule and busing work to get back to their home school for extra curricular, music, and sports. Some kids are willing to suck it up and stay until they are able to drive under the belief that it will be easier once they can drive. If the logistics of going to school there don't allow kids to participate in activities at their home school for the whole of their high school experience, less kids are going to volunteer to go to school there.

8. teachers and students could possible park in private garages for a fee. This imposes a cost on teachers and students only at that school vs. additional availability at other schools. Again students and teachers have the option to move elsewhere and will over something like an imposed extra cost.

The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??

If Arlington spends millions on a bet that 2,000 kids are willing to go there and they aren't, what happens? Who gets forced there? Or have we spent ridiculous amounts of money on a school that sits half empty with constant teacher turnover cause the county can't force anyone to attend/work there.

Please stop claiming its hard to get to the CC. That's a straight up lie. So many buses pass by this school and its 2 miles to the Pentagon or Ballston/Clarendon. In fact, I get from that stop to the Pentagon in less than 10 minutes. It will be even quicker coming the other way. If it's such a horrible site, we shouldn't be putting a school there.

Yeah. On a morning express bus. Try riding it outside of rush hour, when students would need to get there from other schools to the north and south, not along Columbia pike. Last time I checked, not too many APS students commuting from culmore and the pentagon to the CC at rush hour.

APS already shuttled students. Not seeing the need for all of them to drive. I personally don't want all of those cars on Walter Reed, even if there is a garage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

I will support this as soon as APS cancels the parking garage they plan to build for HB Woodlawn, and commits to building a new middle school right smack on top of the Yorktown and WL parking lots. Oh, and when they cancel the parking structure built for the Lubber Run community center and the Aquatics center.

Man it’s weird how much parking APS has and the county wants to build when you list it all. Yet once we’re talking about the Pike we’re told it’s such an urban county and we should just accept it. Weird...

Yep. No one would ever stand for that, nor would Gutshall pen such a condescending note to his NA neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So 5 year olds can walk up to a mile to get to school (according to APS) but grown adult teachers can't walk 1/2 mile from their car? And plenty of people in this area don't get free parking right on site at their place of work. Doesn't anyone else here work in downtown DC? I realize there are better transit options downtown, but the vast majority of DC workers still drive every day. They just pay to park in garages near-ish their offices or get lucky and find a spot on the street.

tl/dr: Why is Gutshall's email a big deal?

1. This isn't a particularly centrally located area, it is no where near a metro. The bus rides up Columbia pike can be long and cumbersome with frequent stops. Bus service along Columbia Pike has been decreased. And the county/Army are about to rip up the road between the Pentagon and Columbia pike as part of the cemetery expansion. Bottom line commuting via public transportation will be too time consuming to be a viable option for many.

2. Many teacher and staff don't live in Arlington (can't afford to) and could not easily commute via public transportation even if they wanted to. We are talking teachers who live in Loudoun County, in Maryland, in Prince William County. These people don't want to add 20 -30 minutes to their day circling the neighborhood looking for parking and then walking to the school.
Teachers often have to carry lots of papers/heavy things back and forth between their class and their car.
Lack of dedicated parking impacts their willingness to work at specific schools. Lack of parking negatively impacts teacher retention and hiring. This has already been an issue at Fleet for the same reason.

3. Other Arlington schools do offer parking. So teachers can take a job at Fleet or the CCHS just to get in the door with APS and then request a transfer to another Arlington school that does offer parking. This imposes higher turnover rate, less experienced teachers and less teacher stability on the students of those schools compared to the rest of the County.

4. Substitute teachers are at a premium and won't work at schools that don't offer parking. Again this is already a problem at Fleet. What will the school do without a viable pool of subs. How will that impact student instruction.

5. There isn't alot of neighborhood parking and that particular neighborhood also has to absorb parking from Fleet which was purposely built under parked, TJ Middle School and TJ Community Center. The site in question is the Career Center High School, Montessori Elementary school and a County Library. There is not enough street parking in that neighborhood to absorb parking from 4 different schools and 2 different community buildings. So where will people go?

6. The entire concept of CTE requires kids to be able to get from their other school to the CCHS and then back to their home school during the day. Some parents have said that the bus schedule does not work to make the classes they want/need and they wait until their kids are driving age and able to go back and forth between the Career center and their home high school via their own transportation. Removing parking serves as a barrier to kids attending CTE classes.

7. Arlington Tech is hemorrhaging kids who cannot make their class schedule and busing work to get back to their home school for extra curricular, music, and sports. Some kids are willing to suck it up and stay until they are able to drive under the belief that it will be easier once they can drive. If the logistics of going to school there don't allow kids to participate in activities at their home school for the whole of their high school experience, less kids are going to volunteer to go to school there.

8. teachers and students could possible park in private garages for a fee. This imposes a cost on teachers and students only at that school vs. additional availability at other schools. Again students and teachers have the option to move elsewhere and will over something like an imposed extra cost.

The entire concept of the Career Center is based on the idea that over a thousand kids will willingly attend the school. If there is no parking, its hard to get to, you have no realistic access to sports, music, extracurricular because you can't actually get back to your home school, the teachers are constantly turning over, leaving for other schools, and unable to build up unique programs due to lack of continuity, who is going to go there??

If Arlington spends millions on a bet that 2,000 kids are willing to go there and they aren't, what happens? Who gets forced there? Or have we spent ridiculous amounts of money on a school that sits half empty with constant teacher turnover cause the county can't force anyone to attend/work there.

Please stop claiming its hard to get to the CC. That's a straight up lie. So many buses pass by this school and its 2 miles to the Pentagon or Ballston/Clarendon. In fact, I get from that stop to the Pentagon in less than 10 minutes. It will be even quicker coming the other way. If it's such a horrible site, we shouldn't be putting a school there.

Yeah. On a morning express bus. Try riding it outside of rush hour, when students would need to get there from other schools to the north and south, not along Columbia pike. Last time I checked, not too many APS students commuting from culmore and the pentagon to the CC at rush hour.

APS already shuttled students. Not seeing the need for all of them to drive. I personally don't want all of those cars on Walter Reed, even if there is a garage.

Without adequate parking, it’ll become a de facto neighborhood school for people who live close by, whether that is APS intent or not. And it will sink Wakefield’s demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now according to rumors and that email from Gutshall it appears that the Arlington County Board and APS are trying to opt out of building the parking garage at the Career Center? Any ideas what this would do to the existing CTE courses? What about the viability of Arlington Tech, let alone whatever new option school they want to put there?

I saw in another post that a very large number of Arlington Tech students have already dropped out for a variety of unrelated reasons. But the more this school is built without the kinds of things that draw students to it and the more that it is perceived as a second rate school Arlington doesn't care about, the worse its going to get.

It kind of seems like Arlington is putting alot of money into what will be a failing school no one wants to teach at or attend. Maybe they should revisit even bothering with expanding there until they can establish a program people want to attend or can at least afford to build something desirable.

Can you post this email? If the garage gets dropped, hopefully, that area gets permit parking or there's a satellite lot.

The county is trying to force TDM on the site. They want to build no parking for staff, and won’t allow the neighborhood to zone. So basically, staff and nearby residents either battle it out for street parking, or maybe they can rent spaces in buildings somewhat nearby, including commercial buildings that have 0 incentive to give up the parking that’s keeping them afloat, because ain’t nobody riding the 16 to go out to dinner.

Anyway, everyone should know that the CC Principal and a student rep were on the team that designed the plaza concept. The county shill’s team put forward a concept that put CTE classroom space in a separate building from the main one and underground, against the wishes of instructional leaders, all under the future field, to block parking from ever being able to be built. It’s insane. This person is playing really fast and loose with her “memory” of events and conversations and even the what the architects have presented to the group or what items most everyone else agrees upon.

Good. I think the county should force TDM. I also think they should allow the neighborhood to have permits, pay for teacher parking nearby and force students to use others means as much as possible. Arlington is urban. We need to accept that. These aren't elementary students. I think they can get to school via public transit. Obviously, some will need to drive, but most won't. We should do TDM and get permits.

You think dozens of students can get to and from the CC to other schools, homes and places of work at various times during the weekday? You obviously don’t ride public transit yourself, at least not in that area. We may be “urban” but we don’t have the public transit to match.

So let's build a huge garage? Or... we could increase pubic transit.