WC Fail

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can say that the rest of the world is slowly catching up in men’s basketball, baseball and hockey too. It’s more fun when there’s competition. Who wants to constantly watch soccer if we constantly dominate the WC or Soccer Olympics?

All people are asking for is a stronger commitment at the youth level to true possession based soccer and scouting and selecting kids that are capable of playing it. The women's team has no identity beyond athleticism. When the European teams begin to match our athleticism we will simply no longer be competitive.

I think the focus on athleticism is incorrect. But taking your statement at face value that athleticism is the key and that European countries will catch up in athleticism, I just don’t agree with your points. When I look at other sports that are heavy on “athleticism” — like basketball, track, or many of the other summer Olympic sports — I don’t think anyone ever thinks that any European nation has been producing better athletes than the US. I think the one thing that the US will always produce is better athletes.

They are losing all their athletes to soccer. That is the argument on the US men's side anyways. We lose all our athletes to BB and football.

But, strike that from it all, you really think the US has the monopoly on genetic athleticism?

And in the last summer games the US won around 121 medals.

The next closest was China with 70 and Great Britain with 67.

If you want to compare the US to European nations on the medal count:
Great Britain 67
Germany 42
France 42
Italy 28
Netherlands 19
Spain 17
Sweden 11

That is a grand total of 226 medals for just a handful of European nations. I'm also pretty certain that the U.S. competes in nearly every Olympic event possible while other nations simply don't bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can say that the rest of the world is slowly catching up in men’s basketball, baseball and hockey too. It’s more fun when there’s competition. Who wants to constantly watch soccer if we constantly dominate the WC or Soccer Olympics?

All people are asking for is a stronger commitment at the youth level to true possession based soccer and scouting and selecting kids that are capable of playing it. The women's team has no identity beyond athleticism. When the European teams begin to match our athleticism we will simply no longer be competitive.

I think the focus on athleticism is incorrect. But taking your statement at face value that athleticism is the key and that European countries will catch up in athleticism, I just don’t agree with your points. When I look at other sports that are heavy on “athleticism” — like basketball, track, or many of the other summer Olympic sports — I don’t think anyone ever thinks that any European nation has been producing better athletes than the US. I think the one thing that the US will always produce is better athletes.

+1. Just look at the number of athletes the US sends to the Olympics compared to other countries. We dominated.

You can’t blame the youth soccer system alone. The parents share in the blame as well. Parents wants immediate results which they equate to wins. Wins means player development to the parents. Developing players with individual skills and team tactics and positioning takes time. So coaches places the most skills kids at midfield and the big/fast players at center forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can say that the rest of the world is slowly catching up in men’s basketball, baseball and hockey too. It’s more fun when there’s competition. Who wants to constantly watch soccer if we constantly dominate the WC or Soccer Olympics?

All people are asking for is a stronger commitment at the youth level to true possession based soccer and scouting and selecting kids that are capable of playing it. The women's team has no identity beyond athleticism. When the European teams begin to match our athleticism we will simply no longer be competitive.

I think the focus on athleticism is incorrect. But taking your statement at face value that athleticism is the key and that European countries will catch up in athleticism, I just don’t agree with your points. When I look at other sports that are heavy on “athleticism” — like basketball, track, or many of the other summer Olympic sports — I don’t think anyone ever thinks that any European nation has been producing better athletes than the US. I think the one thing that the US will always produce is better athletes.

+1. Just look at the number of athletes the US sends to the Olympics compared to other countries. We dominated.

You can’t blame the youth soccer system alone. The parents share in the blame as well. Parents wants immediate results which they equate to wins. Wins means player development to the parents. Developing players with individual skills and team tactics and positioning takes time. So coaches places the most skills kids at midfield and the big/fast players at center forward.

And we fail to spend the time on proper technical and tactical development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can say that the rest of the world is slowly catching up in men’s basketball, baseball and hockey too. It’s more fun when there’s competition. Who wants to constantly watch soccer if we constantly dominate the WC or Soccer Olympics?

All people are asking for is a stronger commitment at the youth level to true possession based soccer and scouting and selecting kids that are capable of playing it. The women's team has no identity beyond athleticism. When the European teams begin to match our athleticism we will simply no longer be competitive.

I think the focus on athleticism is incorrect. But taking your statement at face value that athleticism is the key and that European countries will catch up in athleticism, I just don’t agree with your points. When I look at other sports that are heavy on “athleticism” — like basketball, track, or many of the other summer Olympic sports — I don’t think anyone ever thinks that any European nation has been producing better athletes than the US. I think the one thing that the US will always produce is better athletes.

+1. Just look at the number of athletes the US sends to the Olympics compared to other countries. We dominated.

You can’t blame the youth soccer system alone. The parents share in the blame as well. Parents wants immediate results which they equate to wins. Wins means player development to the parents. Developing players with individual skills and team tactics and positioning takes time. So coaches places the most skills kids at midfield and the big/fast players at center forward.

Parents have little to no influence if the development system is set up properly. In Europe, they watch academy training from outside the fence and do not pay a dime for training. Here the entire system is upside down: parents pay the bills and, thus, influence the coaching decisions.

[Anonymous]

Op. Just what I thought. Yes, it is great that we won. Yes, I may have had a libation, but make no mistake- the Dutch outcoached the US and played a better game with lesser players. The pk was legit, and Rapinoe buried it, and after that the US team's best player, Rose, was able to expose a desparate team with her technical brilliance, but the game was playing out as the Dutch would have wished until VAR gave a pk ( again, a warranted one). If you watched that game and thought the US looked brilliant, I am afraid you are a homer or gargantuan proportions. We should enjoy this one, because a team who is playing in their first set of back to back WCs outstrategized us

[Anonymous]

Talent and good fortune overcame tactics. Congrats to U.S. but this was not a dominant performance by any means. Olympics next year should be interesting.

[Anonymous]

Haters goin hate.

USWNT just played an entire tournament without trailing a single minute of any game, without needing extra time in any game, etc. The analytic nerds also show that the USWNT was #1 in goals, expected goals, shots, shots on target, expected goals allowed and shots on target allowed. And of course, this was against much better competition that had supposedly caught up with the US, including the host country team who happens to have 7 starters conveniently play together for the top women’s pro team in the world.

If you cannot appreciate the greatness that you just witnessed over the last month, which is backed up with analytical data, then I don’t know what to say, other than the first line of this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op. Just what I thought. Yes, it is great that we won. Yes, I may have had a libation, but make no mistake- the Dutch outcoached the US and played a better game with lesser players. The pk was legit, and Rapinoe buried it, and after that the US team's best player, Rose, was able to expose a desparate team with her technical brilliance, but the game was playing out as the Dutch would have wished until VAR gave a pk ( again, a warranted one). If you watched that game and thought the US looked brilliant, I am afraid you are a homer or gargantuan proportions. We should enjoy this one, because a team who is playing in their first set of back to back WCs outstrategized us

Way back when Michael Spinks had a better strategy when he fought Mike Tyson too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op. Just what I thought. Yes, it is great that we won. Yes, I may have had a libation, but make no mistake- the Dutch outcoached the US and played a better game with lesser players. The pk was legit, and Rapinoe buried it, and after that the US team's best player, Rose, was able to expose a desparate team with her technical brilliance, but the game was playing out as the Dutch would have wished until VAR gave a pk ( again, a warranted one). If you watched that game and thought the US looked brilliant, I am afraid you are a homer or gargantuan proportions. We should enjoy this one, because a team who is playing in their first set of back to back WCs outstrategized us

Way back when Michael Spinks had a better strategy when he fought Mike Tyson too

Exactly. That great Dutch strategy resulted in the US having twice as many completed passes in the final third than the Dutch, the US creating 12 chances to to 3 for the Dutch, and 17 shots (10 on goal) for the US compared to 5 shots (1 on goal) for the Dutch. Oh, and a final score of 2-0.

[Anonymous]

It was our most dominant game of the knockout rounds and people are going off about the Dutch strategy. If not for the Dutch GK that game ends at least 5-0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haters goin hate.

USWNT just played an entire tournament without trailing a single minute of any game, without needing extra time in any game, etc. The analytic nerds also show that the USWNT was #1 in goals, expected goals, shots, shots on target, expected goals allowed and shots on target allowed. And of course, this was against much better competition that had supposedly caught up with the US, including the host country team who happens to have 7 starters conveniently play together for the top women’s pro team in the world.

If you cannot appreciate the greatness that you just witnessed over the last month, which is backed up with analytical data, then I don’t know what to say, other than the first line of this post.

Well, usually when someone quotes a Taylor Swift song, I perceive their intellect to be so beyond reproach that I give in. However, I will try again. I never said that the US didn't have better players, and I never said I wanted them to lose. I did say that a victory would reinforce bad habits. Looks like I am not alone beyond just in here :
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/3895113/the-uswnt-is-on-top-of-the-world-againbut-the-gap-is-closing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haters goin hate.

USWNT just played an entire tournament without trailing a single minute of any game, without needing extra time in any game, etc. The analytic nerds also show that the USWNT was #1 in goals, expected goals, shots, shots on target, expected goals allowed and shots on target allowed. And of course, this was against much better competition that had supposedly caught up with the US, including the host country team who happens to have 7 starters conveniently play together for the top women’s pro team in the world.

If you cannot appreciate the greatness that you just witnessed over the last month, which is backed up with analytical data, then I don’t know what to say, other than the first line of this post.

Well, usually when someone quotes a Taylor Swift song, I perceive their intellect to be so beyond reproach that I give in. However, I will try again. I never said that the US didn't have better players, and I never said I wanted them to lose. I did say that a victory would reinforce bad habits. Looks like I am not alone beyond just in here :
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/3895113/the-uswnt-is-on-top-of-the-world-againbut-the-gap-is-closing

The person I was responding to was the OP and the poster immediately after the OP on this page (ie the people talking about how great the Dutch strategy and tactics were, and how the USWNT was not dominant). I simply used the analytical data to show how wrong that was, both in terms of today’s game and the WC as a whole.

I agree with the point that the gap is shrinking. This is a good thing for the game. And it also reinforces the earlier points about just how dominant the USWNT was in this tournament. They should be celebrated for their accomplishments, and they will need to continue working hard to improve because the rest of the World is coming for them.

Great. Bring it on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haters goin hate.

USWNT just played an entire tournament without trailing a single minute of any game, without needing extra time in any game, etc. The analytic nerds also show that the USWNT was #1 in goals, expected goals, shots, shots on target, expected goals allowed and shots on target allowed. And of course, this was against much better competition that had supposedly caught up with the US, including the host country team who happens to have 7 starters conveniently play together for the top women’s pro team in the world.

If you cannot appreciate the greatness that you just witnessed over the last month, which is backed up with analytical data, then I don’t know what to say, other than the first line of this post.

Well, usually when someone quotes a Taylor Swift song, I perceive their intellect to be so beyond reproach that I give in. However, I will try again. I never said that the US didn't have better players, and I never said I wanted them to lose. I did say that a victory would reinforce bad habits. Looks like I am not alone beyond just in here :
https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/3895113/the-uswnt-is-on-top-of-the-world-againbut-the-gap-is-closing

The person I was responding to was the OP and the poster immediately after the OP on this page (ie the people talking about how great the Dutch strategy and tactics were, and how the USWNT was not dominant). I simply used the analytical data to show how wrong that was, both in terms of today’s game and the WC as a whole.

I agree with the point that the gap is shrinking. This is a good thing for the game. And it also reinforces the earlier points about just how dominant the USWNT was in this tournament. They should be celebrated for their accomplishments, and they will need to continue working hard to improve because the rest of the World is coming for them.

Great. Bring it on.

I am the op and I posted the espn article too. I appreciate your use of analytics in creating a rational argument. However, I still stand by what I said. The US should have been statistically dominant and were. Yet, for , what, 75 minutes the game was a draw. The Dutch knew they needed to play extremely disciplined in order to keep the US chances from being overly dangerous, which they did. They needed to weather the storm I the first 15 - 30 minutes and hope to frustrate the US. They weathered the storm but, to the US's credit, it didn't frustrate them.and they were able to keep the pressure on. Also, the Dutch sought to exploit the center backs and were able to generate pressure there. Look, this was the 80 US team vs the 80 Russians in hockey- with us being the Russians. It would have been a miracle for the Dutch to win despite being European champs and they knew it. I sincerely hope that this spurs growth in the US mindset, but my fear is it will justify business as usual, which won't benefit the next generation of US player

[Anonymous]

Netherlands is the European Champions. Europe has great teams and players (France, England, Sweden, etc.). So being a European Champion is a great feat for the Netherlands Women’s National Team and shows that they are the best of the European Teams.

But..........the USWNT is the WC Champions!

Everyone has a great plan until they get punched in the nose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Netherlands is the European Champions. Europe has great teams and players (France, England, Sweden, etc.). So being a European Champion is a great feat for the Netherlands Women’s National Team and shows that they are the best of the European Teams.

But..........the USWNT is the WC Champions!

Everyone has a great plan until they get punched in the nose.

Sigh. My point all along has been that winning this year could ironically be bad for the future. I can't argue with people who can't argue