Newly donut-hole family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in the DMV, make 120k a year (and have never made more than that) and our high achieving kid is not raking in financial aid other than loans or merit aid at the highest ranked schools. Our two kids are separated by 5 years so they are never in college at the same time, but their costs will drain our assets just as much as if they were going at the same time--is that fair? No, there's all sorts of wonkiness in all systems. But I don't feel an elite private school "owes" me anything. They decide part of their mission is to achieve socioeconomic diversity--fine, that's how they spend their resources. No private school is required to meet or not meet anyone's financial needs.

Well just stating your income never shows the whole story. Do you have a lot of assets, own a second home, did you run the NPC calculators before applying? If your strategy was to go for merit aid then that is your answer. I think most schools can't provide generous financial aid AND generous merit aid. It is usually either one or the other. The tippy top schools don't provide merit aid just financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in the DMV, make 120k a year (and have never made more than that) and our high achieving kid is not raking in financial aid other than loans or merit aid at the highest ranked schools. Our two kids are separated by 5 years so they are never in college at the same time, but their costs will drain our assets just as much as if they were going at the same time--is that fair? No, there's all sorts of wonkiness in all systems. But I don't feel an elite private school "owes" me anything. They decide part of their mission is to achieve socioeconomic diversity--fine, that's how they spend their resources. No private school is required to meet or not meet anyone's financial needs.

Well just stating your income never shows the whole story. Do you have a lot of assets, own a second home, did you run the NPC calculators before applying? If your strategy was to go for merit aid then that is your answer. I think most schools can't provide generous financial aid AND generous merit aid. It is usually either one or the other. The tippy top schools don't provide merit aid just financial aid.

I'm not complaining--just stating that even at 120k HHI there's not magic financial aid--it really is for those even lower at that for most except the most resourced, most expensive schools. We saved 90k for our 2 kids just from our HHI and don't have many other assets beside retirement accounts and our primary house. We ended up just fine with a range of options--some lower ranked schools that provided lots merit aid, some higher ranked that expected a lot of loans or left need unmet. One T20 private school did provide a lot more financial aid, but still required a loan burden and a gap that we weren't comfortable with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

So if not everyone is entitled to an Ivy, why do the Ivy's jack up the price of tuition to subsidize low income kids at the expense of donut hole kids. I guarantee if low income kids weren't subsidized a full ride, tuition would be much lower. I don't have a problem with schools subsidizing low income kids, I just don't like how dismissive some are to the lost opportunities for donut hole kids who've worked hard, gotten the scores and are essentially priced out of the "best" schools. I understand the reality, that doesn't mean I don't get the frustration.

[Anonymous]

I am glad the OP and his child seem to have made peace with their situation (which may be disappointing, but is no tragedy). I think people who have not had to settle or budget before are shocked and mad they have to with college. Keep things in perspective. Many others choose between medicine and food or shoes and rent. This can be humbling, in a good way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

. My facts are that we are in the bottom of the “donut hole” and yet we managed to save for our children’s college education.

I don't think pp is talking about saving for your kids college education. Most donut hole families can do that. Many can't save for full pay at an Ivy even if their kids are able to get in. That's very different from a generation ago when most of those families likely could have done it. I'm impressed if you've been able to save full pay Ivy money for all your kids while being at the bottoms of the donut hole. The annual cost including housing and other expenses is about $80,000 per year. Times four with two kids, that's 640,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am glad the OP and his child seem to have made peace with their situation (which may be disappointing, but is no tragedy). I think people who have not had to settle or budget before are shocked and mad they have to with college. Keep things in perspective. Many others choose between medicine and food or shoes and rent. This can be humbling, in a good way.

The issue is that the top schools are also the gateway to generational success in a way that lower tier schools are not and iwhen you see other monkeys with grapes, it feels just as bad to have cucumbers as it feels to have nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am glad the OP and his child seem to have made peace with their situation (which may be disappointing, but is no tragedy). I think people who have not had to settle or budget before are shocked and mad they have to with college. Keep things in perspective. Many others choose between medicine and food or shoes and rent. This can be humbling, in a good way.

It's not a matter of budgeting to afford a top college, it's that people literally can't afford to spend half their gross annual income and there is a distinct difference in follow on life opportunity between theirs of colleges. Meanwhile, those same colleges will completely subsidize others who also can't afford it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

So if not everyone is entitled to an Ivy, why do the Ivy's jack up the price of tuition to subsidize low income kids at the expense of donut hole kids. I guarantee if low income kids weren't subsidized a full ride, tuition would be much lower. I don't have a problem with schools subsidizing low income kids, I just don't like how dismissive some are to the lost opportunities for donut hole kids who've worked hard, gotten the scores and are essentially priced out of the "best" schools. I understand the reality, that doesn't mean I don't get the frustration.

Yeah, way to blame the poor kids when it's the rich kids that are the problem. Schools don't jack up prices so that they can let more poor kids in, they jack up prices because there are just so many more rich kids that are willing and able to pay. Wealth disparity is real and you've been priced out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess my question is why do you think you deserve help paying for a $70k college when there are plenty of great ones that will cost $30k, which you can easily afford. I make 45k working full time. Do you think someone should give me 20k toward my purchase of a Mercedes, or would it make more sense for me to just buy a Ford?

Someone will be giving you $70,000 toward your kid's $70,000 tuition assuming your kid gets in. Will you turn it down because someone shouldn't be subsidizing your child's Mercedes quality education? It's interesting how people are outraged by OP wanting some subsidy for her child's education, but think it's quite peachy to receive it themselves. No one deserves subsidies. What did you do to earn your right to a subsidy? Maybe OP works really hard and maybe so does her child. Why is your full time job and your child's hard work more worthy than OP's? When we're taking about handouts, let's not start judging. Reality is OP won't get a subsidy, but reality also is you aren't more deserving and you didn't earn your subsidy it's just a hand out. Dismount your high horse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

So if not everyone is entitled to an Ivy, why do the Ivy's jack up the price of tuition to subsidize low income kids at the expense of donut hole kids. I guarantee if low income kids weren't subsidized a full ride, tuition would be much lower. I don't have a problem with schools subsidizing low income kids, I just don't like how dismissive some are to the lost opportunities for donut hole kids who've worked hard, gotten the scores and are essentially priced out of the "best" schools. I understand the reality, that doesn't mean I don't get the frustration.

Yeah, way to blame the poor kids when it's the rich kids that are the problem. Schools don't jack up prices so that they can let more poor kids in, they jack up prices because there are just so many more rich kids that are willing and able to pay. Wealth disparity is real and you've been priced out.

Colleges absolutely do jack up tuition to subsidize free rides for poor kids. Do you think all the free rides come from endowments? Yes, wealth disparity is real m, and when it comes to college tuition poor people have it way better than middle income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

So if not everyone is entitled to an Ivy, why do the Ivy's jack up the price of tuition to subsidize low income kids at the expense of donut hole kids. I guarantee if low income kids weren't subsidized a full ride, tuition would be much lower. I don't have a problem with schools subsidizing low income kids, I just don't like how dismissive some are to the lost opportunities for donut hole kids who've worked hard, gotten the scores and are essentially priced out of the "best" schools. I understand the reality, that doesn't mean I don't get the frustration.

Yeah, way to blame the poor kids when it's the rich kids that are the problem. Schools don't jack up prices so that they can let more poor kids in, they jack up prices because there are just so many more rich kids that are willing and able to pay. Wealth disparity is real and you've been priced out.

Colleges absolutely do jack up tuition to subsidize free rides for poor kids. Do you think all the free rides come from endowments? Yes, wealth disparity is real m, and when it comes to college tuition poor people have it way better than middle income families.

That's right the poor have it better. No one cares to subsidize your DC's education because you are going to pay for it, you're too cheap to go fancy, but that's ok she's gonna graduate somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

So if not everyone is entitled to an Ivy, why do the Ivy's jack up the price of tuition to subsidize low income kids at the expense of donut hole kids. I guarantee if low income kids weren't subsidized a full ride, tuition would be much lower. I don't have a problem with schools subsidizing low income kids, I just don't like how dismissive some are to the lost opportunities for donut hole kids who've worked hard, gotten the scores and are essentially priced out of the "best" schools. I understand the reality, that doesn't mean I don't get the frustration.

Yeah, way to blame the poor kids when it's the rich kids that are the problem. Schools don't jack up prices so that they can let more poor kids in, they jack up prices because there are just so many more rich kids that are willing and able to pay. Wealth disparity is real and you've been priced out.

Colleges absolutely do jack up tuition to subsidize free rides for poor kids. Do you think all the free rides come from endowments? Yes, wealth disparity is real m, and when it comes to college tuition poor people have it way better than middle income families.

But when it comes to all the things that are likely to stand in your way when you're poor to qualify for getting into college, poor people have it worse than anyone else. SO many private colleges say, we want to preferentially subsidize those kids who overcame those hurdles--they're likely to impressive things compared to the unproven middle class kids who followed SAT prep, had strong schools etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

. My facts are that we are in the bottom of the “donut hole” and yet we managed to save for our children’s college education.

Those are your specific facts.

The increases in college tuitions have changed dramatically in the last few decades. It has made it much more difficult for upper middle-class families to pay for college. That is a fact.

[Anonymous]

You just don’t want to pay for something that is expensive.

Everyone pays for college except scholarship students. So if you want free you have a choice. Either earn a scholarship somehow or I guess become poor. Would you rather be poor?

Or just pay for school like the majority of us. If you don’t want to pay then don’t. The military is free. That’s one option. Community college is cheaper.

You should have been saving all along. Did you think college was free? Who misinformed you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just don’t want to pay for something that is expensive.

Everyone pays for college except scholarship students. So if you want free you have a choice. Either earn a scholarship somehow or I guess become poor. Would you rather be poor?

Or just pay for school like the majority of us. If you don’t want to pay then don’t. The military is free. That’s one option. Community college is cheaper.

You should have been saving all along. Did you think college was free? Who misinformed you?

Yep, this is the issue, and that's fine, no one should buy something they think is overpriced. The fact that some poor kids are given this expensive item has no relevance.