Newly donut-hole family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

This isn't about the 2%-ers. It's more like the 10%-ers, or maybe 20%-ers depending on the school.

There are a lot of people in this category in large metro areas like DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

This isn't about the 2%-ers. It's more like the 10%-ers, or maybe 20%-ers depending on the school.

There are a lot of people in this category in large metro areas like DC.

Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.

Thank you. I would be much better off taking a government job at 40% lower salary in terms of financial aid.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.


Thank you

Thank you. I would be much better off taking a government job at 40% lower salary in terms of financial aid.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

So have them take out loans. If it's worth that much to you, you'll help them pay the loans back. Yeah, that's not what you were talking about is it? Honestly, you have much, much more money than most people. If you can't pull back on the retirement and some spending to get them through their top-choice school, then you get what you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

It is a fact that the cost of college has outpaced inflation by a long shot.

The reason that the term "donut hole" came into existence and usage is that the rise in tuition costs has caused elite schools to become out of reach to families who are in a certain upper middle class income bracket.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

. My facts are that we are in the bottom of the “donut hole” and yet we managed to save for our children’s college education.

[Anonymous]

I guess my question is why do you think you deserve help paying for a $70k college when there are plenty of great ones that will cost $30k, which you can easily afford. I make 45k working full time. Do you think someone should give me 20k toward my purchase of a Mercedes, or would it make more sense for me to just buy a Ford?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess my question is why do you think you deserve help paying for a $70k college when there are plenty of great ones that will cost $30k, which you can easily afford. I make 45k working full time. Do you think someone should give me 20k toward my purchase of a Mercedes, or would it make more sense for me to just buy a Ford?

Because you make 45k, and the dealership wants cars to be accessible for people with low income, they will pay the entire cost of the Mercedes for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

This isn't about the 2%-ers. It's more like the 10%-ers, or maybe 20%-ers depending on the school.

There are a lot of people in this category in large metro areas like DC.

Education spending among the top 10% has risen by 400% in the last couple of decades. Education spending among the lower 90% has stayed the same or slightly declined in the same time period.

[Anonymous]

This is the OP. Thank you for the responses. It is about what I had expected.

We moved to DC to make this higher income (bigger mortgage now, but only one car) also, due to the move, we now have to outsource our percentage of care for a relative (which was hindering one spouse's income because they had been delivering the care). Those two factors, and a higher income bracket, mean that while we can save for college, it isn't as if we can make up for 15 years x 2 kids in 3 years. Sure, there are places we could have scrimped and saved more along the way, but I don't think that would have gotten us to the 600K we would need to tell both kids they could go wherever they want.

Like all parents, I would love to be able to tell him that he can go to whatever school he gets into. Fortunately, we have had lots of conversations about life not being fair.

He has no interest in SLACS. We have been encouraging the top honors colleges, and then the 25-50 ranked schools that give merit aid like CWRU and Emory (he has perfect ACT/SAT/GPA) and hoping he gets some money from schools like Wash U. We are in MD, and his STEM major is very strong at UMD, so if he can get into the BK program, that would be a great option. I know, and he knows, he will be happy and successful no matter where he goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

So have them take out loans. If it's worth that much to you, you'll help them pay the loans back. Yeah, that's not what you were talking about is it? Honestly, you have much, much more money than most people. If you can't pull back on the retirement and some spending to get them through their top-choice school, then you get what you get.

It is possible to both

1. have more money than most people do, and
2. see - correctly - that tuition costs have far outpaced inflation and become much too high for everyone, and
3. feel outraged out that fact (i.e. about #2).

All of those things can be the case at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. Thank you for the responses. It is about what I had expected.

We moved to DC to make this higher income (bigger mortgage now, but only one car) also, due to the move, we now have to outsource our percentage of care for a relative (which was hindering one spouse's income because they had been delivering the care). Those two factors, and a higher income bracket, mean that while we can save for college, it isn't as if we can make up for 15 years x 2 kids in 3 years. Sure, there are places we could have scrimped and saved more along the way, but I don't think that would have gotten us to the 600K we would need to tell both kids they could go wherever they want.

Like all parents, I would love to be able to tell him that he can go to whatever school he gets into. Fortunately, we have had lots of conversations about life not being fair.

He has no interest in SLACS. We have been encouraging the top honors colleges, and then the 25-50 ranked schools that give merit aid like CWRU and Emory (he has perfect ACT/SAT/GPA) and hoping he gets some money from schools like Wash U. We are in MD, and his STEM major is very strong at UMD, so if he can get into the BK program, that would be a great option. I know, and he knows, he will be happy and successful no matter where he goes.

*He might get merit aid at CWRU - they like Blair magnet kids especially. OTOH, they rejected a lot of Blair magnet kids this year and gave little or not merit aid to a lot of them as well.

*Emory gives very little merit money to very few applicants. Ditto re: WashU.

*UMD is an excellent option but given the in-state tuition, why would you need him to get a BK scholarship (it's not a program) to attend?

FYI, my kid also has perfect stats (perfect ACT and perfect GPA in the Blair magnet) and the above reflects our experience. Don't count on merit money at elite schools that give it, even for your near-perfect or perfect student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

This isn't about the 2%-ers. It's more like the 10%-ers, or maybe 20%-ers depending on the school.

There are a lot of people in this category in large metro areas like DC.

Education spending among the top 10% has risen by 400% in the last couple of decades. Education spending among the lower 90% has stayed the same or slightly declined in the same time period.

Which is completely unfair, especially to those not in the top say, 2-3%.

[Anonymous]

We live in the DMV, make 120k a year (and have never made more than that) and our high achieving kid is not raking in financial aid other than loans or merit aid at the highest ranked schools. Our two kids are separated by 5 years so they are never in college at the same time, but their costs will drain our assets just as much as if they were going at the same time--is that fair? No, there's all sorts of wonkiness in all systems. But I don't feel an elite private school "owes" me anything. They decide part of their mission is to achieve socioeconomic diversity--fine, that's how they spend their resources. No private school is required to meet or not meet anyone's financial needs.