Newly donut-hole family

[Anonymous]

I know how this post will come across to some people, but it seems to me like the expectation that we could have saved 70K for each year of school is based on the fact that we have made this for a significant amount of time, and I'm wondering if there is a way to counteract that. We are in our early 40s.

We made $250K for the first time last year and will have 2 in college next year. I can tell you that we did not save $560,000 for college for our kids and I didn't feel like that was the expectation. We also did not expect and did not get any financial aid, because why would we? When the first kid was born, DH was in grad school and our income was about $30K - it was a long time before we could save anything and we had a lot of debt from those lean years.

I have also told my kids that it is unreasonable for them to think they can go to a college that costs $70K per year. We are paying around $33K for older DC (OOS public) and will pay $23K for younger DC (instate public that he chose over UMD with a sticker cost of $37K).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. What is involved in appealing an aid offer. When would one do that and how?

I do not know anyone in real life who did this with any success. I have only seen "success" stories on the anonymous internet.

I am an anonymous Internet stranger in the doughnut hole but recently successfully negotiated more merit aid for my child. We presented other scholarship offers that were better and the school actually exceeded them. Although my child is high stats, we purposely did not look at extremely competitive schools because of the unlikelihood of merit aid. With multiple kids, one already in college, and a $250k HHI, there is no way we could be full pay at $70,000 a year schools. My child will be going to a private smaller college for much less $ than in state. This was the perfect one for my child although it probably would not rate well with the DCUM crowd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

Oh, I agree with you. Our high-stats kids are both at privates with merit scholarships, for this very reason.

[Anonymous]

We have a very high stats kid at an excellent public. We had similar problems to Op, but different. Moved and bought a house, then the RE marked tanked and we lost a fortune on the house we were selling. It took years to get above water on the new house. I had a serious medical condition, and was unable to work for several years. But as we hit MS and I returned to work, out income shot up. So now we are formerly donut hole.

We sat down with each kid at the beginning of HS. Showed the, what was in their college account, and gave them a projection of where we expected it to be. Gave them a rough idea of what we planned to pay out of income.

They are both well covered for instate VA, and have good OOS options. Not Ivys and SLACs with no merit aid, but options.

Most of the OOS public’s where we could mostly full pay, or close. Or privates with decent merit aid. Older DC is looking at pair, Rochester, CWRU, midwestern SLACs (Kenton, Oberlin, Wooster, Grinnell, Macalaster, St. Olaf)— all excellent in his areas of interest. Applying to WUSTL and Rice as super reaches.

Is it perfect? Nope. Do I wish I could tell my kids the sky is the limit? Yep. Could I let them go anywhere by tapping the home equity we are finally accusing and retirement? Probably. Do I think it’s fair that some schools offer zero merit aid, and effectively lock a portion of high achieving kids out? No, I don’t. Even if merit aid is limited, hard working upUMC kids should phase a shot. The ability to apply and compete for enough merit aid to make these schools possible.

But, it is what it is. And is feel like my kid at least has good choices we can swing without loans.

[Anonymous]

^^ not formerly donut hole. We’re eligible for need aid and unable to save much until middle school. But now donut hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

[Anonymous]

Going to college isn't a right.

Going to an "elite" college isn't a right.

Yes it sucks, but that's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

Other posters will inevitably follow with much less nice posts, so I will try to be nice.

With $300K in income and $2M in net worth, congrats on your well-earned success! It would be considered a reasonable choice if you chose to not pay for private colleges even though you can afford them. And since your kids are such high achievers, you will have merit based options as well. Congrats, you are one of the luckiest families in America.

[Anonymous]

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.


^^^
Touche'! This whole "system" needs to crash and burn, so hopefully, a better more equitable & meritorious one can 'rise up' to replace it. However the 'demand' for the top schools is so much greater than the 'supply' hence the change may not happen in our lifetimes.

The hole donut hole “concept” is just people who make plenty but can’t save and overspend to have a reason to complain.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry. As soon as you start your sob story with how much you are playing for PRIVATE school, you lose my sympathy.

You knew how much college costs (or where it was heading), you knew your kid's ages, you live in an area with above average public schools...but you CHOSE to send your kids to private school. So don't come crying to DCUM now saying , I can't afford college. I could have saved for college OR sent my kid to private school. Who owes you both of those options, when some kids can't afford to even go to community college.

Seriously people. Talk about an entitled mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would you expect to get financial aid when you make $260,000 a year???

Most people don't have an extra $6,000/mo that they don't already have going towards something else. Being expected to come up with that kind of money is daunting.

Most people don’t need to pay $70,000 a year for a kid to go to college either. There are plenty of less expensive options.

Most people don't pay $70,000 a year even at colleges with $70,000 price tags. Most people receive some level of financial aid.

But people with HHIs like OP's family's income do have to pay $70K/year - or look elsewhere.

That's why people call the general $150k-$300k range the donut hole. Obviously there are other colleges, but that's not the point. The point is that a certain category of college is accessible to the poor, LMC, and the rich, but not to UMC.

My parents' income dropped from $75k to $35k to temporary disability while I was in college so, in the grand scheme of things, I'll take having to stretch to pay for my DCs' college and limit them from the more expensive private colleges but it seems disingenuous to pretend the donut hole isn't a thing.

And that is OK. No one is entitled to Harvard, or an Ivy, or whatever other elite school he/she fancies. I promise you, your child will be just fine at any one of the 98% of schools that don't cost $70k.

Reasonable people can and do disagree about whether it is "ok."

Regardless of your view on that, the fact is that a generation ago, if you could get into a given school, you could make financing it work. That is no longer true.

Yep not F--King okay. Why should people both richer than my family and poorer than my family be able to afford it but not us in the doughnut hole. It is BS. I have twins at a local top private. One has a good shot at Ivy and the other a well known top 25. That is 150K a year by time they go. One more kid two years behind them. So for two years, I am expected to pay $225,000 a year? WTF? And we get discriminated anyway because we are Asian. Net worth is close to $2,000,000 (1.85 million). Income is $300,000. Of that net worth 1.1 Million is in retirement accounts. So I don't have the money to pay $900,000 for three private schools.

We have about $90,000 each for the older two and around $50,000 for the younger one. Another about $160,000 from selling two rental properties (doubly screwed because a lot goes to taxes--this is what the net is). We can get to around $400,000 total and can easily pay for in state in Virginia. But, why should my kids not have the right to go to the top schools? Because I am upper middle class? Those richer than us can do it and those poorer than us can do it. The whole system is out of order as Al Pacino said in Justice for All.

It is about time we start listening to families in the top 2% of incomes in America- you've been silenced for far too long - you are so brave to share your story. Thank you.

Thank you for your support. It has been tough. I talk to my therapist every week about it. I am getting through it though.