Few days to decide: U of Virginia or U of Chicago?

[Anonymous]

So, OP, what did your DC choose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if it's part of an accelerated combined degree program, there is an increased class load (thus "accelerated") -- there isn't time for assistantship.

You can't say that standard advice for graduate school doesn't apply to anyone because it doesn't apply to a special program -- not when people are discussing standard graduate school. That's just silly.

+1 all true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is any question. Univ of Chicago is now $76,000 a year. UVA instate's tuition is $14,710. (our DS lives off campus so doesn't have dorm, food service, health service fees). He has no car so only expenses are shared apartment and food. Our total outlay was probably $22K this year. Even using UVA's cost calculator for a student living on campus at $32,000, you are still looking at a difference of $44K a year which is in after-tax dollars. We would have to make $70K to pay the difference. Multiply that by four or five years and you have enough to pay for grad school, which is exactly what we are doing. Go to UVA and bank the difference, if you have it. If you don't have it, you should be going to UVA anyhow. DS has had a wonderful four years. Chicago is full of smart kids but it is cold and dark and fun indeed goes there to die.

No, absolutely not. Nobody should pay to go to grad school (professional school like law and medicine are the exception).

Grad students should be offered a teaching or research assistantship which comes with tuition waiver. If you are paying for it, they don't really want you and don't think you will succeed, and they are probably right.

Wrong. Many grad schools do require payment and lots of it. First, DS is going into an M.P.P. (Master's of public policy) program at UVA's Batten School of Public Policy and Leadership. Guess what? In-state perks for all intents and purposes stop at graduation. DS's tuition for the Batten School will jump from current tuition of $14,000 a year to over $43,000 a year. Second, MBA programs also cost a lot of money. Third, after the Master's program, DS wants to attend law school. The tuition for my law school is now almost $100K a year x 3 years. I am VERY grateful that DS had the wisdom to pick UVA over other privates where since we were then looking at a delta of more than $43,000 x 4 years. We've been able to bank the money that would have been spent at an OOS or private so can now provide for DS at the Master's and Professional school levels.

Not necessarily. UVA Graduate assistants get full in-state tuition and fees remission, as well as health insurance subsidy if they make a minimum of $5000/year -- and it's hard not to. Batten is affiliated with GA and RA positions, and in fact gives out yearly awards for good work in assistantships of various kinds.

Either you are saying "DS is going into" Batten without yet being at the stage of applying -- kind of jumping the gun there, no? -- or he isn't being offered a standard graduate student package. Which is fine, if that is what you want, I suppose.

I take it he did not get into the combined MPP/JD program, so he has to do these separately. As I said, professional schools such as law and medicine are a different category.

Aid Eligibility

Qualified graduate assistantships include tuition remission and the health insurance subsidy. They may also include tuition adjustment. A graduate assistantship is ‘qualified’ if it is at least half of a full assistantship (a quarter-time appointment, roughly equivalent to 10 hours per week).

Tuition Remission – The in-state tuition portion and all required fees (comprehensive fees, activity fees and, where applicable, the international student fee) paid on behalf of a student serving in a qualified graduate assistantship.

Tuition Adjustment – The amount of tuition above in-state tuition paid on behalf of an out-of-state student serving in a qualified graduate assistantship.

Health Insurance Subsidy – A subsidy funded centrally by the University and provided on behalf of a qualified graduate student. A qualified graduate student must be offered the health insurance subsidy if he or she earns at least $5,000 in wages as a GTA or GRA over the course of the fiscal year.

https://sfs.virginia.edu/grad/assistantships

Wrong on all fronts. DS is accepted via the accelerated Master's program so will finish both undergrad and grad. in five years, not six. Tuition for the fourth/combined year of undergrad and starting at Batten is at the in-state rate. Then it jumps for the fifth year. Yes, Batten has T.A. positions but you have to get them in order to take advantage of them. Not everyone gets to be a T.A. right? Students in the accelerated program are coming in from their third year at UVA so don't qualify for T.A. positions. Yes, he plans to apply sometime next year for a T.A. position the fifth year but who knows? Those often go to international students or others who have demonstrated financial nees. Then he hopes to study aboard and maybe go to law schools. Most law schools now want to see a two year break before applying.

[b]Well, then you obviously should have read my first post more carefully. I will quote for your convenience: "(professional school[s] like law and medicine are the exception)." His program is primarily in law, with an accelerated MBA (that is not the typical master's degree program). That isn't just "going to graduate school" -- that is finished an alternative undergrad/masters accelerated degree and then going into a professional school, which is -- as I said -- the exception to the rule that you shouldn't pay for graduate level training.

I really hope your DS is better at this reading thing than you are.

Can you not read?

Wow, you're a nasty piece of work. You make assumptions that are incorrect. Then when it is explained why your assumptions are incorrect, you come back to argue some more and insult the person trying to educate you as to what programs cost. Why does this mean so much to you? . . . Why do you need to be right (even though you clearly made wrong assumptions.)? What do you get out of this type of arguing? And why the need to be so unpleasant to someone trying to help you better understand that many graduate programs are NOT free, and indeed are very very expensive.

[Anonymous]

PLEASE stop quoting every post when you reply to someone. If you are as intelligent as you claim to be, you can edit the quoted text so your post doesn’t take up half a page.

[Anonymous]

Hahaha. Start a troll post about the two schools that get people the most riled up on DCUM and ask for a comparison. Then get some popcorn and enjoy the shitshow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

[Anonymous]

Meant to have a question mark after "for all kids".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

I think humanities is less stressful than science (fewer hours in class, less likelihood of weekly assignments, more flexibility wrt scheduling because classes typically stand alone vs are offered in sequences and series). So wrt kid, it probably comes down to how much yours cares about grades and whether your DC has a tendency to overschedule/over-commit. My gripe about UChicago is “no time to think” — but if your DC is a fast reader who is not daunted by the STEM requirements in the Core, and who is realistic when choosing courses, then it could be a great choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

The problem is folks here are not consistent. If the quarter system is an issue then every school with a quarter system becomes an issue. Stanford, Northwestern, Dartmouth, and many many more. Clearly the quarter system is a red herring. It is used against some schools but I am sure people will crawl thru shit to get their kids into Stanford. So what is it that makes Chicago stand out? Well it is one of the few schools left in the elite list that actually expects you to be a student and actually study. It is definitely not a "Grade deflated school". That is laughable, but it is also not a "Grade inflated school". If you go there and decide to goof off, you are going to make bad grades. If you don't do your assignments or reading or just try to skate by, you are going to get bad grades. If you are going to binge drink (and trust me, you are do that at Chicago, people you tell you, you can't are clueless about how the school has changed in the last 10 years) and go off the rails, your grade is going to suffer. But if you work conscientiously, you will do fine. The problem is, most people nowadays think work conscientiously is "being a grind". This is college people, not a vacation. You are supposed to work and gain knowledge.

So it all depends on your philosophy. If you want your kid to get a real education, where teachers don't hand out A's like candy and do justice to the "astronomical tuition" that any private college charges, then Chicago may be right for you. But if you want your kid to just get a branded degree, don't care or want them to actually expend effort in learning the material, then don't send them here. They will be miserable. BTW, I don't think the school gives a rat's ass. They are finding enough of the kids they want and don't care about others. With a 5.9% admit rate, they don't have to compromise on the kids they take. In fact, I think they are pretty good at cherry picking the kids that actually are not skaters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

I missed this when I gave my opinion about Chicago earlier. For this child ( disorganized, if by that you mean, can't keep schedules, forgets things and assignments, procrastinates a lot, etc etc.) Chicago is a bad choice. Don't send your kid here. I say this as a parent who has a kid here. A kid who can't get organized and is absent minded will have hug problems at the school. You need some decent time management skills to do well here

[Anonymous]

Looking back at your comment re having trouble with a pressure cooker environment, let me add a few more thoughts to my last post (8:23). It may also matter how your kid reacts to environment generally. Kids at UChicago are frequently/visibly/vocally stressed out. Not everyone, not always, not to the exclusion of doing fun things. But the atmosphere is contents under pressure. Which can be contagious — it has been for my DC.

FWIW, I don’t think it would have been for me. I tend to live more in my own head when I’m doing academic stuff. I learned more from books and profs than from classmates. And pleasure motivates me more than pressure. I attended HYP (well, 2/3) and I think DC’s getting a comparable education (in terms of challenge, standards, quality of faculty, and mentorship) at Chicago, but my experience (and DH’s at the same HYP college) was a lot happier and comparatively painless. I don’t think you have to suffer to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

I think humanities is less stressful than science (fewer hours in class, less likelihood of weekly assignments, more flexibility wrt scheduling because classes typically stand alone vs are offered in sequences and series). So wrt kid, it probably comes down to how much yours cares about grades and whether your DC has a tendency to overschedule/over-commit. My gripe about UChicago is “no time to think” — but if your DC is a fast reader who is not daunted by the STEM requirements in the Core, and who is realistic when choosing courses, then it could be a great choice.

I don’t think that they let people into the school who would be ‘daunted by the STEM requirements in the Core’. You’re either a strong all around student or you’re not a good fit and you won’t be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

The problem is folks here are not consistent. If the quarter system is an issue then every school with a quarter system becomes an issue. Stanford, Northwestern, Dartmouth, and many many more. Clearly the quarter system is a red herring. It is used against some schools but I am sure people will crawl thru shit to get their kids into Stanford. So what is it that makes Chicago stand out? Well it is one of the few schools left in the elite list that actually expects you to be a student and actually study. It is definitely not a "Grade deflated school". That is laughable, but it is also not a "Grade inflated school". If you go there and decide to goof off, you are going to make bad grades. If you don't do your assignments or reading or just try to skate by, you are going to get bad grades. If you are going to binge drink (and trust me, you are do that at Chicago, people you tell you, you can't are clueless about how the school has changed in the last 10 years) and go off the rails, your grade is going to suffer. But if you work conscientiously, you will do fine. The problem is, most people nowadays think work conscientiously is "being a grind". This is college people, not a vacation. You are supposed to work and gain knowledge.

So it all depends on your philosophy. If you want your kid to get a real education, where teachers don't hand out A's like candy and do justice to the "astronomical tuition" that any private college charges, then Chicago may be right for you. But if you want your kid to just get a branded degree, don't care or want them to actually expend effort in learning the material, then don't send them here. They will be miserable. BTW, I don't think the school gives a rat's ass. They are finding enough of the kids they want and don't care about others. With a 5.9% admit rate, they don't have to compromise on the kids they take. In fact, I think they are pretty good at cherry picking the kids that actually are not skaters.

Hyperintellectual kids often don’t need whip-cracking to learn. And, in fact, fear of the lash may get in the way of them doing their best work/learning
as much as they can. There’s a difference between kids who would binge-drink and those who would binge-read if they weren’t under constant pressure to perform.

And, no, you don’t have to think quarter system is bad everywhere to believe that it’s a real downside to UChicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is private Chicago worth the premium?

I think that Chicago is more for a prodigy who was reading almanacs, dictionaries and encyclopedias at some point. For that kid, going to Chicago might be the only chance to be around similar people. Paying for Chicago for that kid, if possible, is worth it, because going there may be the kid’s only chance to learn how to talk in situations in which dumbing down is not necessary. Going to a place like Chicago or Cal Tech is important to that’s kid development.

Going to Chicago might also be good for normal bright kids who want to go into research.

UVA is probably better for most bright kids who aren’t sure they want to become researchers.

This post describes my humanities child and my exact concerns and thoughts. That said, DC also has trouble with a pressure cooker environment. Someone here described the U of C that way. Do others agree? I know it can be for a number of majors but is it necessarily stressful for all kids. DC is the hyperintellectual/high verbal ability but disorganized/absent-minded professor type.

I think humanities is less stressful than science (fewer hours in class, less likelihood of weekly assignments, more flexibility wrt scheduling because classes typically stand alone vs are offered in sequences and series). So wrt kid, it probably comes down to how much yours cares about grades and whether your DC has a tendency to overschedule/over-commit. My gripe about UChicago is “no time to think” — but if your DC is a fast reader who is not daunted by the STEM requirements in the Core, and who is realistic when choosing courses, then it could be a great choice.

I don’t think that they let people into the school who would be ‘daunted by the STEM requirements in the Core’. You’re either a strong all around student or you’re not a good fit and you won’t be admitted.

DC (a STEM major) knows a number of humanities kids who find the required Calc and Chem courses at Chicago daunting. They were misled by their success in similarly-named courses in HS.

[Anonymous]

What are the stem requirements? Calc and what else?