Atlantic article on college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not difficult to get extended time accomodations for wealthy kids in the private schools - 1. Get a psychologist to certify your kid - as you can see from the Singer case this is quite easy. 2. Get private school to set up plan - this is easily done in private schools if a big donor 3. College Board and ACT will automatically approve vast majority of students who receive school-based testing accommodations

So for those who say they have to jump through hoops, yes you do IF you do not have connections and/or money to get a doctor to write a diagnosis for your kid. Once diagnosis is obtained, the private is more than willing to bend over backwards for your kid especially if you are a big donor. Then school present to College Board/ACT the school accomodations your kid gets and voila, extended time for the SAT/ACT.

I would like a neuropsychologist to chime in here-- is your profession so corrupt that any one of you will "certify a kid" for money?

It's psychology, the entire field is a racket; mental chiropractors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not difficult to get extended time accomodations for wealthy kids in the private schools - 1. Get a psychologist to certify your kid - as you can see from the Singer case this is quite easy. 2. Get private school to set up plan - this is easily done in private schools if a big donor 3. College Board and ACT will automatically approve vast majority of students who receive school-based testing accommodations

So for those who say they have to jump through hoops, yes you do IF you do not have connections and/or money to get a doctor to write a diagnosis for your kid. Once diagnosis is obtained, the private is more than willing to bend over backwards for your kid especially if you are a big donor. Then school present to College Board/ACT the school accomodations your kid gets and voila, extended time for the SAT/ACT.

I would like a neuropsychologist to chime in here-- is your profession so corrupt that any one of you will "certify a kid" for money?

From what I read, Singer had the parents coach the kids on how to test. He said to tell the kids to be "slow" and not "act bright"

pp here- the psychologist who tested must be corrupt or incompetent--or the schools are accepting evaluation results that are superficial at best. The tests are kind of granular-- for instance, my DS took a test that assessed his graphomotor processing and another that tested his ability to read facial expressions. The kids would have to know how much is too much to fail an achievement test--it could appear as if they hadn't mastered basic literacy skills while presumably being passed grade to grade.

Acting "not bright" in a global manner would most likely get a result of "low IQ" from an ethical neuropsychologist-- or most likely they would sense the kid was uncooperative or deceptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not difficult to get extended time accomodations for wealthy kids in the private schools - 1. Get a psychologist to certify your kid - as you can see from the Singer case this is quite easy. 2. Get private school to set up plan - this is easily done in private schools if a big donor 3. College Board and ACT will automatically approve vast majority of students who receive school-based testing accommodations

So for those who say they have to jump through hoops, yes you do IF you do not have connections and/or money to get a doctor to write a diagnosis for your kid. Once diagnosis is obtained, the private is more than willing to bend over backwards for your kid especially if you are a big donor. Then school present to College Board/ACT the school accomodations your kid gets and voila, extended time for the SAT/ACT.

Maybe, but my DC has multiple physical disabilities and has received support services since age two and extra time on tests, since whatever age that became appropriate. The school suggested we request accommodations and we assumed it would be nothing, but we were denied. Our physician was happy to write a letter to support the school's paperwork, but the appeal was denied. After it was suggested DC just wanted extra time for peace of mind, but wasn't willing to push for it beyond the appeal. The story relayed in the article said second appeal, and legal threat was what it took. Now maybe there are corrupt doctors that also no exactly how to massage the request, but from DC's experience, it's not a simple as you believe.

[Anonymous]

This is Caitlin "Entitlement" Flanagan. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is Caitlin "Entitlement" Flanagan. Take it with a grain of salt.

She is the worst. And she doesn't even get her facts right. Watch your confirmation bias, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

You have no idea how many parents tried the SAT route and couldn't get it through the system -- even with Singer (who had 700+ clients and only 31 have been indicted). Students are denied every single day.

The sports back door he exploited did not necessarily require cheating on the test scores. Some kids were smart enough to get a decent SAT score, but they needed the sports hook to secure a spot.

Look at the stats and data. Accommodations jumped after College Board stopped flagging. Does anyone really believe suddenly all these disabled kids jumped overnight? Compare data of kids w accommodations in rich private schools vs elsewhere. Why is there a higher percentage? I see it at my DCs private’s - it is NOT difficult to get accomodations.

It's actually rather difficult to get accomodations in public school. Private schools are too afraid to stand up to the parents.

Interesting you say that. My child has severe anxiety. In public school she would get a 504. Her private will not accommodate her because they do not accommodate for anxiety. So I guess it's hard to say. BTW, we have not sought accommodations form the College Board, so I have no idea if they would allow accommodations.

The numbers are deceptive. In many private schools, the kids get a diagnosis for purposes of the extra time and other accommodations on standardized tests, not because they actually need them in school. Where a student actually needs supports, the school is more likely to counsel them out or not admit them in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

I think it's important to keep the cheaters separate in our thoughts from the kids/families who actually qualify for accommodations. How many parents have said that even though their child has been recommended for extra time due to a learning/attention diagnosis that they haven't used it? My DS does not use extra time on standardized tests even though his neuropsychologist recommended it and the school was willing to accommodate. He tests in a non distracting environment because some day, at work or in college, he can put on noise cancelling headphones, but he can't change his deadlines.
He's a brilliant kid with a learning disability and would definitely be taking his seat at a great college with extra time- but we're after "fit" and realism about what he (as an individual) can handle. A lot of parents whose kids have learning issues are looking for happiness and fit--because we know from raising these kids that it can be a house of cards.
I am in no way disagreeing with extra time on tests for qualifying students, nor am I judging where kids thrive or which learning issues benefit from extra time and which do not. I'm just saying that the people cheating this test are a far different group than parents and kids who have lived with a disability.

Thank you 15:31. My oldest DS also qualified for a using a lap top to write essays on and extra time, but he refused the the extra time. His teachers had urged us to seek a computer accommodation because it it very difficult to read his handwriting and takes him an extraordinary long time to write anything by hand, but he's actually a great writer. The way the psych testing works, he came out as qualified for both extra time and a computer accommodation. He had close friends with dyslexia who needed extra time, and though it was unfair for him to use extra time he did not believe he needed and refused to apply for the accommodation although the school was supportive as was the psychologist. He used his computer accommodation in both the classroom and the essay portions of on standardized tests, the results of which confirmed he was right -- he didn't need the time to do extremely well. My second child, however, has always taken a particularly long time to complete certain tasks. Diagnostic testing called it slow processing speed, some ADD, and a lot that was just unexplained as to root cause . Like the child of the poster above, DC is extremely bright -- he would get every problem right that he completed on an exam, but only finish 2/3 of the questions -- especially if they involved reading. Even math word problems would raise the issue which was not evident in pure equations/calculations. He bregudingly accepted the extra time (50%) and yes -- went to the top of the class. But no one seemed jealous of his time. DC's friends and teachers all knew from conversations with DC just how smart he was and that it wasn't showing. He also dislikes it, because he has to sit for very long periods to complete standardized tests. They won't let you go faster if you only need, say 25% extra time but they gave you 50%. I don't see him as advantaged over other kids -- i see him as not having had an opportunity to test in a manner that showed his true abilities without the time, just as our older DC could not show his true written ability if he was forced to make chicken scratch no one could read at a painfully slow pace rather than bang our his ideas on a key board quickly. some families abuse the system -- shame on them -- but the rest of these kids should not be punished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

I think it's important to keep the cheaters separate in our thoughts from the kids/families who actually qualify for accommodations. How many parents have said that even though their child has been recommended for extra time due to a learning/attention diagnosis that they haven't used it? My DS does not use extra time on standardized tests even though his neuropsychologist recommended it and the school was willing to accommodate. He tests in a non distracting environment because some day, at work or in college, he can put on noise cancelling headphones, but he can't change his deadlines.
He's a brilliant kid with a learning disability and would definitely be taking his seat at a great college with extra time- but we're after "fit" and realism about what he (as an individual) can handle. A lot of parents whose kids have learning issues are looking for happiness and fit--because we know from raising these kids that it can be a house of cards.
I am in no way disagreeing with extra time on tests for qualifying students, nor am I judging where kids thrive or which learning issues benefit from extra time and which do not. I'm just saying that the people cheating this test are a far different group than parents and kids who have lived with a disability.

Thank you 15:31. My oldest DS also qualified for a using a lap top to write essays on and extra time, but he refused the the extra time. His teachers had urged us to seek a computer accommodation because it it very difficult to read his handwriting and takes him an extraordinary long time to write anything by hand, but he's actually a great writer. The way the psych testing works, he came out as qualified for both extra time and a computer accommodation. He had close friends with dyslexia who needed extra time, and though it was unfair for him to use extra time he did not believe he needed and refused to apply for the accommodation although the school was supportive as was the psychologist. He used his computer accommodation in both the classroom and the essay portions of on standardized tests, the results of which confirmed he was right -- he didn't need the time to do extremely well. My second child, however, has always taken a particularly long time to complete certain tasks. Diagnostic testing called it slow processing speed, some ADD, and a lot that was just unexplained as to root cause . Like the child of the poster above, DC is extremely bright -- he would get every problem right that he completed on an exam, but only finish 2/3 of the questions -- especially if they involved reading. Even math word problems would raise the issue which was not evident in pure equations/calculations. He bregudingly accepted the extra time (50%) and yes -- went to the top of the class. But no one seemed jealous of his time. DC's friends and teachers all knew from conversations with DC just how smart he was and that it wasn't showing. He also dislikes it, because he has to sit for very long periods to complete standardized tests. They won't let you go faster if you only need, say 25% extra time but they gave you 50%. I don't see him as advantaged over other kids -- i see him as not having had an opportunity to test in a manner that showed his true abilities without the time, just as our older DC could not show his true written ability if he was forced to make chicken scratch no one could read at a painfully slow pace rather than bang our his ideas on a key board quickly. some families abuse the system -- shame on them -- but the rest of these kids should not be punished.

A lot of kids would be able to get good scores - move from a 32 to a 35/36 if they had extra time to double check their answer or even finish all the questions on the ACT or math section of the SAT or the SAT science subjects. So please - the extra time accomodation is an unfair advantage in speed tests and the disadvantage group are the kids who did not get any extended time accomodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

You have no idea how many parents tried the SAT route and couldn't get it through the system -- even with Singer (who had 700+ clients and only 31 have been indicted). Students are denied every single day.

The sports back door he exploited did not necessarily require cheating on the test scores. Some kids were smart enough to get a decent SAT score, but they needed the sports hook to secure a spot.

Look at the stats and data. Accommodations jumped after College Board stopped flagging. Does anyone really believe suddenly all these disabled kids jumped overnight? Compare data of kids w accommodations in rich private schools vs elsewhere. Why is there a higher percentage? I see it at my DCs private’s - it is NOT difficult to get accomodations.

It's actually rather difficult to get accomodations in public school. Private schools are too afraid to stand up to the parents.

Interesting you say that. My child has severe anxiety. In public school she would get a 504. Her private will not accommodate her because they do not accommodate for anxiety. So I guess it's hard to say. BTW, we have not sought accommodations form the College Board, so I have no idea if they would allow accommodations.

You need to DONATE money.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Caitlin "Entitlement" Flanagan. Take it with a grain of salt.

She is the worst. And she doesn't even get her facts right. Watch your confirmation bias, people.

Moreover she squeezes her conservative agenda into this article:
Hollywood liberal Aunt Becky is a horrible terrible person for bribing her kid into USC!!!
But Jared Kushner’s dad is not that bad for bribing Harvard directly!!! (Because... “other kids benefit”!?)

The whole rightwing shtick today is to deflect anger away from the truly wealthy onto the upper middle class. That’s Flanagan’s line here.

[Anonymous]

can someone tell me what the hate on caitlin f. stems from?

the article seemed pretty spot on to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Caitlin "Entitlement" Flanagan. Take it with a grain of salt.

She is the worst. And she doesn't even get her facts right. Watch your confirmation bias, people.

Moreover she squeezes her conservative agenda into this article:
Hollywood liberal Aunt Becky is a horrible terrible person for bribing her kid into USC!!!
But Jared Kushner’s dad is not that bad for bribing Harvard directly!!! (Because... “other kids benefit”!?)

The whole rightwing shtick today is to deflect anger away from the truly wealthy onto the upper middle class. That’s Flanagan’s line here.

the exec editor at the atlantic is jeffrey goldberg, a very zionist jew.

being critical of the kushners in a personal way, not related to policy, wouldn't have been allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

I think it's important to keep the cheaters separate in our thoughts from the kids/families who actually qualify for accommodations. How many parents have said that even though their child has been recommended for extra time due to a learning/attention diagnosis that they haven't used it? My DS does not use extra time on standardized tests even though his neuropsychologist recommended it and the school was willing to accommodate. He tests in a non distracting environment because some day, at work or in college, he can put on noise cancelling headphones, but he can't change his deadlines.
He's a brilliant kid with a learning disability and would definitely be taking his seat at a great college with extra time- but we're after "fit" and realism about what he (as an individual) can handle. A lot of parents whose kids have learning issues are looking for happiness and fit--because we know from raising these kids that it can be a house of cards.
I am in no way disagreeing with extra time on tests for qualifying students, nor am I judging where kids thrive or which learning issues benefit from extra time and which do not. I'm just saying that the people cheating this test are a far different group than parents and kids who have lived with a disability.

Thank you 15:31. My oldest DS also qualified for a using a lap top to write essays on and extra time, but he refused the the extra time. His teachers had urged us to seek a computer accommodation because it it very difficult to read his handwriting and takes him an extraordinary long time to write anything by hand, but he's actually a great writer. The way the psych testing works, he came out as qualified for both extra time and a computer accommodation. He had close friends with dyslexia who needed extra time, and though it was unfair for him to use extra time he did not believe he needed and refused to apply for the accommodation although the school was supportive as was the psychologist. He used his computer accommodation in both the classroom and the essay portions of on standardized tests, the results of which confirmed he was right -- he didn't need the time to do extremely well. My second child, however, has always taken a particularly long time to complete certain tasks. Diagnostic testing called it slow processing speed, some ADD, and a lot that was just unexplained as to root cause . Like the child of the poster above, DC is extremely bright -- he would get every problem right that he completed on an exam, but only finish 2/3 of the questions -- especially if they involved reading. Even math word problems would raise the issue which was not evident in pure equations/calculations. He bregudingly accepted the extra time (50%) and yes -- went to the top of the class. But no one seemed jealous of his time. DC's friends and teachers all knew from conversations with DC just how smart he was and that it wasn't showing. He also dislikes it, because he has to sit for very long periods to complete standardized tests. They won't let you go faster if you only need, say 25% extra time but they gave you 50%. I don't see him as advantaged over other kids -- i see him as not having had an opportunity to test in a manner that showed his true abilities without the time, just as our older DC could not show his true written ability if he was forced to make chicken scratch no one could read at a painfully slow pace rather than bang our his ideas on a key board quickly. some families abuse the system -- shame on them -- but the rest of these kids should not be punished.

And have you ever wondered that maybe your kid received too much extra time and hence was able to double check their answers and with the extra time also had extra time to go through all the questions? Yes, they deserved extra time for their disability but since none of the xtra time are personalized, the time they received was more than they needed that they had the luxury to double check their answers and able to answer all the questions. So basically you are part of the group that created an uneven playing field for the kids who did not receive any accommodations.

[Anonymous]

This thread has gone off the rails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can someone tell me what the hate on caitlin f. stems from?

the article seemed pretty spot on to me.

She spent years writing about motherhood as a very spoiled, entitled, wealthy SAHM, critical of anyone who wasn't a spoiled, entitled, wealthy SAHM exactly like her. This wasn't just working moms. She also disliked SAHMs who weren't wealthy like her. She has years of odious writing history.

I've read her writing for years and I have literally never read a single one where she didn't sound whiny, including this one. She has a very luxurious life, but never manages to sound anything other than, at best, petulant. This could have been an easy essay.to write, but once again is about how wonderful she thinks she is (an amazing, perfect teacher after all) and how annoying and impossible it is that other people (those awful parents) simply didn't bathe in her grace all the time. I feel like this is the plot of everything she writes, ever.