Atlantic article on college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long past time to drop the SAT/ACT as part of admission process. The SAT/ACT can be gamed legally and illegally. The getting more time is the least of the problems. I really do not know why so many people focus on this one thing. Other kids have been drilled by professionals, shown how to game the test and worked “practice” exams for years.

Doing drills and practice exams and learning test-taking strategies is not "gaming the test" or "cheating". Nor are they beyond the reach of even poor students.

Yes they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wish this hadn't been written by Caitlin "Mommy Wars" Flanagan. It's hard to take her seriously when she spent several years of her career excoriating vulnerable new moms for not having the good sense to marry a wealthy husband like she did. She is the definition of entitlement herself (or was, at least), and frankly in the context of her prior writing history, I am skeptical of her stories.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long past time to drop the SAT/ACT as part of admission process. The SAT/ACT can be gamed legally and illegally. The getting more time is the least of the problems. I really do not know why so many people focus on this one thing. Other kids have been drilled by professionals, shown how to game the test and worked “practice” exams for years.

Doing drills and practice exams and learning test-taking strategies is not "gaming the test" or "cheating". Nor are they beyond the reach of even poor students.

Yes they are.

I’m in education. Poor (and middle class, for the most part) families just do not give a sh-t. I’ve talked til I’m blue in the face about important of test prep and summer programs on and on and it just doesn’t click with them. This isn’t a money problem or resource problem, it’s a culture/values problem.

[Anonymous]

People like to seize on a few dozen kids “gaming” the test. But generally smart kids do well — because they’re smart, of course. Stop trying to deflect from your parenting failures or genetics of your kids with “it’s rigged!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long past time to drop the SAT/ACT as part of admission process. The SAT/ACT can be gamed legally and illegally. The getting more time is the least of the problems. I really do not know why so many people focus on this one thing. Other kids have been drilled by professionals, shown how to game the test and worked “practice” exams for years.

Doing drills and practice exams and learning test-taking strategies is not "gaming the test" or "cheating". Nor are they beyond the reach of even poor students.

Yes they are.

I’m in education. Poor (and middle class, for the most part) families just do not give a sh-t. I’ve talked til I’m blue in the face about important of test prep and summer programs on and on and it just doesn’t click with them. This isn’t a money problem or resource problem, it’s a culture/values problem.

I had a rich donor in my pocket who said he’d pay 100% of fees for 1 or 2 bright kids to go to Harvard’s summer program. I talked to dozens of qualified low and middle income teens and their families. *Nobody* wanted to go. Free. Nobody cared. You can only lead a horse to water...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long past time to drop the SAT/ACT as part of admission process. The SAT/ACT can be gamed legally and illegally. The getting more time is the least of the problems. I really do not know why so many people focus on this one thing. Other kids have been drilled by professionals, shown how to game the test and worked “practice” exams for years.

Doing drills and practice exams and learning test-taking strategies is not "gaming the test" or "cheating". Nor are they beyond the reach of even poor students.

Yes they are.

Use Khan academy for free. Buy a SAT practice book for $15. That is what my kid is doing. We are not spending money on courses or on tutors.
In Montgomery County you can take SAT prep through the George V Thomas Learning Academy. Families pay $80 flat fee for a whole year of tutoring in academic subjects (Math, Science etc) and SAT/ACT prep. It costs just $40 for low income students.
Students can use computers at the public library if they don't have one at home. there are also SAT prep books in the public library.

[Anonymous]

This article puts one more point in the column against private schools, or at least the Big 3. We currently have two boys in private, one at a K-8 and the other in HS. Thus far I am unimpressed with college matriculations vs our local MCPS HS, and not eager to see our younger one enter this toxic cesspool of privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In addition the SAT really have little to do with how well one will do in college. So what’s the point of using these test? It allows rich people to pay for better results.

SAT scores have been shown to be strongly correlated with general intelligence. Intelligence predicts the ability to succeed in college (though of course it does not guarantee it). So the point of the tests is to determine the student's intelligence and thus their potential to succeed in college.

I hear this over and over, but it doesn't make sense to me. There are many reason why a bright kid may not have taken advanced classes. If they didn't obviously they won't score as well. It seems to me that the SAT is more a reflection of your academic preparation than outright intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

You have no idea how many parents tried the SAT route and couldn't get it through the system -- even with Singer (who had 700+ clients and only 31 have been indicted). Students are denied every single day.

The sports back door he exploited did not necessarily require cheating on the test scores. Some kids were smart enough to get a decent SAT score, but they needed the sports hook to secure a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

Only for the last one. Singer have had many clients. He would have told them to get accommodations and this shows how easy it is to get them else Singer’s business would not have been that successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

You have no idea how many parents tried the SAT route and couldn't get it through the system -- even with Singer (who had 700+ clients and only 31 have been indicted). Students are denied every single day.

The sports back door he exploited did not necessarily require cheating on the test scores. Some kids were smart enough to get a decent SAT score, but they needed the sports hook to secure a spot.

Look at the stats and data. Accommodations jumped after College Board stopped flagging. Does anyone really believe suddenly all these disabled kids jumped overnight? Compare data of kids w accommodations in rich private schools vs elsewhere. Why is there a higher percentage? I see it at my DCs private’s - it is NOT difficult to get accomodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe he had somebody on the inside on the College Board. He seemed to have enough other people in on the scam.

See above. When the CB and ACT balked at extra time for these clearly non-disabled students whose parents hired Singer, the FBI asked them to grant it, so they could catch the parents as well as the paid off proctors who administered the tests and changed the students' answers.

Singer has been doing this a long time so there have been many students that got accommodations through. So put on your thinking cap -it really isn’t that difficult. Because Singer wouldn’t have been successful in his business if the parents in past years didn’t successfully receive accommodations for their kids.

So how did this happen? I haven't heard an explanation yet. Parents of LD and ADHD students insist that that it's very difficult to be granted extra time by the College Board, that students need to have a history of needing this accomodation. Yet it appeared that many (although possibly not all) of Singer's clients were able to get permission with recent diagnosis and no history of using accomodations in the past. So which is it? If one is able to get a diagnosis of LD/ADHD, is it then easy to get permission from the College Board for extra time or not? This scandal seems to show that the claims that LD parents makes - that it's sooo difficult to get approval for extra time is bunk.

Because the FBI told the College Board to give them untimed tests! Honestly, do a little reading. It's laid out in the complaint.

I think it's important to keep the cheaters separate in our thoughts from the kids/families who actually qualify for accommodations. How many parents have said that even though their child has been recommended for extra time due to a learning/attention diagnosis that they haven't used it? My DS does not use extra time on standardized tests even though his neuropsychologist recommended it and the school was willing to accommodate. He tests in a non distracting environment because some day, at work or in college, he can put on noise cancelling headphones, but he can't change his deadlines.
He's a brilliant kid with a learning disability and would definitely be taking his seat at a great college with extra time- but we're after "fit" and realism about what he (as an individual) can handle. A lot of parents whose kids have learning issues are looking for happiness and fit--because we know from raising these kids that it can be a house of cards.
I am in no way disagreeing with extra time on tests for qualifying students, nor am I judging where kids thrive or which learning issues benefit from extra time and which do not. I'm just saying that the people cheating this test are a far different group than parents and kids who have lived with a disability.