Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

Actually you weren’t lucky but u gamed the system and u did it early so your kid had history that helped him later.

Oh, I don't know. I think we got pretty lucky. Typically parents are not gaming the system when they seek a diagnosis at age 7. After all the difficulties he had to endure through the years with social issues, bullying, executive functioning issues, etc., we are thrilled to see this improvement and such a great ACT score that got him into a top 10 school!!!

[Anonymous]

My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

And, if you weren't wealthy enough to have had him tested to show slow processing, he would just have struggled with all the other average students in the country. But you were fortunate enough to make sure his issues were identified and accommodated by every teacher, class and text.

[Anonymous]

Getting extra time for slow processing speed would be like giving a dictionary for low vocabulary scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

Me again. How can you claim someone games the system when they had a diagnosis at age 7? Were we planning for his college entrance exams at age 7? LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

You can only do testing every few years so it isn't gaming the system. They have had documented concerns since 2nd grade. Different than someone coming in middle or high school demanding extra time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

And, if you weren't wealthy enough to have had him tested to show slow processing, he would just have struggled with all the other average students in the country. But you were fortunate enough to make sure his issues were identified and accommodated by every teacher, class and text.

We are not wealthy. But nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DDs experience was exactly opposite. She’s had verified testing and accommodations since age 8. And lengthy neuropsych testing and reports every 3 years. She was denied extra time on the ACT. Our appeals were denied. (My full time day job is writing appellate briefs — usually successfully.) She’s since graduated college (where she chose not to continue accommodations) and is well employed. So I’d love to know how so many others were able to get accommodations.

That is super frustrating.

I have a child who has multiple disabilities (4!) and most certainly is not gaming the system. We have documentation going back to K. Stacks and stacks and stacks of IEPs, testing and letters from specialists. He was denied extended time by the college boards. Now we’re doing yet another round of expensive testing we can’t afford. We were told that since we were already rejected on appeal it’s a long shot but DC cannot possibly complete his AP or SAT in the allotted time so what else can we do. He’s a bright kid and hardworker and I’m angry he’s in the position where he might be limited in college admissions. I know he could take the ACT instead but we don’t dare apply for accommodations without making sure we have dotted every i and crossed every t.

I’m sure there are some rich people gaming the system but there are more middle class families like ours that aren’t getting a fair shake. First we had to scrape together money for expensive therapies and intervention because MCPS failed our child. And now this! It’s too much!

All I can say is karma will get those people cheating the system. Please don’t start doubting the authenticity of your child’s peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

And, if you weren't wealthy enough to have had him tested to show slow processing, he would just have struggled with all the other average students in the country. But you were fortunate enough to make sure his issues were identified and accommodated by every teacher, class and text.

Its not just slow processing speed. That is usually a subcategory or a bigger issue. If you just came in with slow processing, it is different. But it does seem like ADHD and ASD are heavily pushed now for diagnosis. It was for us when our child had a different issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Would you make a kid who wears glasses take them off to take the test? Other kids are not allowed to have magnifiers so why let the kid with glasses wear them?

The accommodations level the playing field. I have one severe ADD kid and one non-ADD kid. The ADD kid will have to re-read the question over and over again because she forgot what she just read or will become hyper focused on a cough or something else. The non-ADD kid doesn't notice someone coughing and has normal ability to regulate her concentration. ADD is the inability to regulate focus it actually doesn't mean that they can never focus they just have less control on what they focus on.

No, I wrote that a physical disability should be accommodated, like needing to wear glasses.

It's the ADD example that I'm focusing on (no pun intended). Some people take longer than others; some do math better than others; some write better than others. These should all be reflected in the test results, and they are _except_ the "some people take longer time" -- they get accomodations.

I'm not great at math -- should I be allowed to use a calculator while the others are not? Hardly seems fair.

So a person who is blind gets a reader but a person with dyslexia should not?

That's how it works in real life. If you ride the Metro, they have information available in braille and other accommodations for blind people, but I don't see any accommodations being made for dyslexics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above is from the College Board website regarding extra time.

They have similar pages with requirements for other disabilities and other requested accommodations.

https://accommodations.collegeboard.org/documentation-guidelines/extended-time

We know. We are saying if slow processing speed affects academic ability that you shouldn’t get extra time on the SAt.

Are you a neuropsychologist? Were you part of the team of doctors who updated the DSM-5?

What you think and are saying isn't really relevant.

It isn’t a matter of DSM. This should be a college board call. With time and a half you are not getting an accurate score.

U know there are also accommodations to use calculators when test doesn’t allow it? Also double time and even all day?

The DSM defines the disorder. How the College board decides whether it warrants accommodation and which ones.

It is NOT a rubber stamp.

It was for the Singer clients because he bribed people at the ACT/SAT offices. They are in the indictment too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

Yes you did do a disservice to them. You are a horrible parent. What is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

The key here is that the world exists beyond college. So I would argue by not mowing down obstacles you have actually created a kids who will have learned to keep going even if they're not winning, to work harder than the next guy and advocate for what they want. My guess is at their 20th reunion, they will be far more successful than all those kids with accommodations who never learned to maneuver around and through problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DDs experience was exactly opposite. She’s had verified testing and accommodations since age 8. And lengthy neuropsych testing and reports every 3 years. She was denied extra time on the ACT. Our appeals were denied. (My full time day job is writing appellate briefs — usually successfully.) She’s since graduated college (where she chose not to continue accommodations) and is well employed. So I’d love to know how so many others were able to get accommodations.

That is super frustrating.

I have a child who has multiple disabilities (4!) and most certainly is not gaming the system. We have documentation going back to K. Stacks and stacks and stacks of IEPs, testing and letters from specialists. He was denied extended time by the college boards. Now we’re doing yet another round of expensive testing we can’t afford. We were told that since we were already rejected on appeal it’s a long shot but DC cannot possibly complete his AP or SAT in the allotted time so what else can we do. He’s a bright kid and hardworker and I’m angry he’s in the position where he might be limited in college admissions. I know he could take the ACT instead but we don’t dare apply for accommodations without making sure we have dotted every i and crossed every t.

I’m sure there are some rich people gaming the system but there are more middle class families like ours that aren’t getting a fair shake. First we had to scrape together money for expensive therapies and intervention because MCPS failed our child. And now this! It’s too much!

All I can say is karma will get those people cheating the system. Please don’t start doubting the authenticity of your child’s peers.

MCPS service are a joke. You have a bunch of bad choices. Either spend the money to fight them and hope you win and get services or not wait and use that money to pay for services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

You can only do testing every few years so it isn't gaming the system. They have had documented concerns since 2nd grade. Different than someone coming in middle or high school demanding extra time.

I don't think anyone should get extended time for "low processing speed," period. I remember this PP and she has gone on before about how "brilliant" her DS is and how he is such as "strong" test taker ... even knowing that, she STILL finagled the extra time for the ACT. Totally gaming the system. What she had was a bright, quirky kid who seemed a little different as a younger kid, and she decided that she could not stand even the slightest difficulty for him.