Safety Schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Above a certain GPA/SAT/ACT Case Western is a safety at the 2 high schools I'm familiar with - you can see it very clearly on the Naviance scattergram. Look at your school's Naviance instagrams and you'll see the same pattern for other schools.

In my view, that makes it a match. What is obvious on the static Naviance scattergram may be creeping to the right and up a bit each year.

Well, in that case neither of my kids ever applied to a "safety," because the schools they used as their "safeties" were UVA, W&M, CWU, Wisconsin. Their stats put in them in the part of the Naviance scattergram where everyone had been admitted to those schools. They had no desire to go to a school with a 70% acceptance rate and we weren't going to pay for that, so what's the point of applying to a school like that for a kid who needs more of a challenge?

What schools are good safeties for the 4.0/1560+ kid?

When did your kids start college?

My 4.0/1560 DC(graduates HS in 2019) safeties were St Mary's of MD, Wooster and Pitt. Applied EA for each, in w/merit at all.

Also applied RD to Haverford, Kenyon, Middlebury. Assumes all are reaches and college counselor concurred. Perhaps could have increased chances if ED were feasible, but with our financial situation it wasn't.

Haverford and Middlebury do not give merit money - only FA. Given that, applying ED would have been fine if you are either full-pay or need aid. I'm guessing it's the latter - in which case, your "out" would have been insufficient FA.

What do you mean by, "your 'out' would have been insufficient FA." Are you saying you can get out of an ED commitment if there is not enough FA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought of it in relative terms---one person's safety may be another person's reach. Given the numbers of OP's dd, i think many of the schools people are saying aren't safeties would be considered a safety for OP (e.g, Kenyon, Muhlenberg, Denison, Lafayette, Case Western, etc.)

I get your point, but crazy things happen during admissions. My DC is a very high stats kid that was shut-out from schools that *should* have been a safety for him (including Case Western, Northeastern, Tulane, Tufts).

This is why I also subscribe to the PP's post above:

Safeties are typically where your child is not only in the 75th percentile and above in scores, but ALSO have acceptance rates above 50%, and for good measure, is a school you can safely AFFORD.

Respectfully and redundantly, none of those schools are safeties for anyone, and Tufts is so famous for yield protection that the slang for it is "Tufts Syndrome". That's so well known it makes me doubt this is a real post.

PP here. Nope, it’s a real post. My 17 years old wasn’t “in” on the joke. Oh well.

It's not a joke -- it's a fact. A 17 year old shouldn't be expected to know, but someone should have counseled them then.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought of it in relative terms---one person's safety may be another person's reach. Given the numbers of OP's dd, i think many of the schools people are saying aren't safeties would be considered a safety for OP (e.g, Kenyon, Muhlenberg, Denison, Lafayette, Case Western, etc.)

I get your point, but crazy things happen during admissions. My DC is a very high stats kid that was shut-out from schools that *should* have been a safety for him (including Case Western, Northeastern, Tulane, Tufts).

This is why I also subscribe to the PP's post above:

Safeties are typically where your child is not only in the 75th percentile and above in scores, but ALSO have acceptance rates above 50%, and for good measure, is a school you can safely AFFORD.

Respectfully and redundantly, none of those schools are safeties for anyone, and Tufts is so famous for yield protection that the slang for it is "Tufts Syndrome". That's so well known it makes me doubt this is a real post.

PP here. Nope, it’s a real post. My 17 years old wasn’t “in” on the joke. Oh well.

It's not a joke -- it's a fact. A 17 year old shouldn't be expected to know, but someone should have counseled them then.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

You mean like all the adults on this long thread should know better about what a safety is? Thanks for the advice PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You go to a 70% acceptance rate college so you don't have to pay. DC had a 1580 SAT/4.0UW and is saving a ton of money for grad school and in an amazing honors programs with like-minded peers.

CWU has been brutal this year at our science magnet.

+1

Lots of Case rejections this year at our school, for high stats kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Above a certain GPA/SAT/ACT Case Western is a safety at the 2 high schools I'm familiar with - you can see it very clearly on the Naviance scattergram. Look at your school's Naviance instagrams and you'll see the same pattern for other schools.

In my view, that makes it a match. What is obvious on the static Naviance scattergram may be creeping to the right and up a bit each year.

Well, in that case neither of my kids ever applied to a "safety," because the schools they used as their "safeties" were UVA, W&M, CWU, Wisconsin. Their stats put in them in the part of the Naviance scattergram where everyone had been admitted to those schools. They had no desire to go to a school with a 70% acceptance rate and we weren't going to pay for that, so what's the point of applying to a school like that for a kid who needs more of a challenge?

What schools are good safeties for the 4.0/1560+ kid?

When did your kids start college?

My 4.0/1560 DC(graduates HS in 2019) safeties were St Mary's of MD, Wooster and Pitt. Applied EA for each, in w/merit at all.

Also applied RD to Haverford, Kenyon, Middlebury. Assumes all are reaches and college counselor concurred. Perhaps could have increased chances if ED were feasible, but with our financial situation it wasn't.

Haverford and Middlebury do not give merit money - only FA. Given that, applying ED would have been fine if you are either full-pay or need aid. I'm guessing it's the latter - in which case, your "out" would have been insufficient FA.

What do you mean by, "your 'out' would have been insufficient FA." Are you saying you can get out of an ED commitment if there is not enough FA?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

No you can’t easily back out for that reason.

Only if a college fails to provide at least as much financial aid as was estmated on their NPC can get out of an ED offer.

[Anonymous]

Not really. Your on financial circumstances may change.

[Anonymous]

No ED agreement that I've ever seen actually references the NPC. (I kind of wish they would. Some colleges seem to shy away from even pointing to the NPC when discussing ED.) The actual language usually is:

Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.

[Anonymous]

Goucher
Ithaca
SUNY Albany
Susquehanna
Loyola MD
Elon
Skidmore
Muhlenberg

[Anonymous]

+1 for Wooster and Kalamazoo
Both excellent schools for sciences (Kalamazoo is probably just under the 10 hour distance though), innovative programs, known for giving merit aid and not too selective admissions though attracting good students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Need some safeties for my Dd (current junior) in NOVA. On our list now are Dickinson, Kenyon, Bowdoin, Amherst, etc
Stats- 34 ACT
4.03 W GPA (only 1 AP is counted in that, taking 4 this year)
3.98 UW GPA
Good ECs, nothing amazing
STEM Major- biochem or neuro possibly
Small school, preferably <5,000, liberal arts, within ~10 hour drive max. Preferably low Greek life and d3 (she is trying to be recruited)
TIA!!

Dickinson is not a safety with those stats?? Good Lord--things have changed.

[Anonymous]

Living in Virginia means, for me, that my kids’ safety schools are state schools. I see no reason to pay for private when there’s likely a comparable public option in our home state. FWIW we would not get financial aid and could afford the privates. I honestly just think it’s a waste once you get below the top 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Living in Virginia means, for me, that my kids’ safety schools are state schools. I see no reason to pay for private when there’s likely a comparable public option in our home state. FWIW we would not get financial aid and could afford the privates. I honestly just think it’s a waste once you get below the top 20.

So 20 is worth it but 21 isn’t. Gotcha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No ED agreement that I've ever seen actually references the NPC. (I kind of wish they would. Some colleges seem to shy away from even pointing to the NPC when discussing ED.) The actual language usually is:

Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment.

Every competitive school we visited (Northwestern, Middlebury, Haverford) discussed this at info sessions. The NPC would be the minimum offered and that you should use that as a guide before applying ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Living in Virginia means, for me, that my kids’ safety schools are state schools. I see no reason to pay for private when there’s likely a comparable public option in our home state. FWIW we would not get financial aid and could afford the privates. I honestly just think it’s a waste once you get below the top 20.

So 20 is worth it but 21 isn’t. Gotcha.

NP: I'm a professor at a research university and I know faculty at nearly all of the top 75 or so liberal arts colleges. I would say the colleges typically ranked in the top 10ish are qualitatively different in terms of academic excellence--primarily because of the strength of the students and the capacity of the endowments, but that after that point to somewhere roughly in the 80s all are all excellent schools without meaningful distinctions in the academic value they offer students among them (though some have relative areas of strength--e.g., sciences, social sciences, humanities, arts etc.). I wouldn't hesitate sending my kids to any that were a reasonable financial fit (and many often are through merit aid offers). Many of these private schools end up costing the same or less than UVA or W&M.