Compact math is really not compact math anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. We're from England, and thoroughly unimpressed. My kids get home pretty spent and don't want to do Singapore Math or spelling with mum at 5 or 6pm. They do love their summer camps at Landon School and Holton Arms though.

Have you thought about sending your kids there? They have great financial aid. It is night and day to public school.

For $42,975 (Holton Arms) and Landon School ($39,220 - a bargain!) per year for grades 3-6, one would certainly hope so.

I pay $12K a year after financial aid. This includes everything including daily breakfast, snacks, and lunches. No packing lunches and getting fantastic healthy food is a huge burden off my back. Once a week after school music lesson included as well. They also have free proctored homework zone until 4:35pm so I don’t have to pay for after school care. I also save a ton in clothing as a few uniform pieces suffice for the week. Ratios are anywhere from 10-15 kids per teacher. No standardized testing. Teachers that think outside the box. Take classes outside for lessons. Daily PE or sports. Art a few times a week. A greenhouse garden, etc....

We probably pay $5K a year when you figure after-care, weekly private music lesson, and 2 warm meals a day. Well worth it. Daughter is thriving and happy. Her anxiety is completely gone. So we probably would be using that 5K in therapy and meds. Don’t judge. 25% of families are on FA and they are generous.

Sounds wonderful! Can I ask where they go? DH and I always go back and forth about private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Before we moved here, I couldn't have imagined in my worst nightmare that this country does such a poor job educating its populace. Well, of course, there are, and always have been, the elites with their 40K prep schools and subsequent Ivies. But a regular middle-class kid who wants to learn and is able to do the work required that public education should be catering to, is so shortchanged, it's disheartening..

Geez.Not sure if you are talking about MCPS compact math which is the topic of this thread but Compact Math gets a 7th grader to Algebra. Does that make them dummies to you?

I'm curious about this as well. Is the PP talking about compacted math, the topic of this thread--or the regular curriculum? Is it the norm for 7th graders to be beyond Algebra in England or whatever your previous country is? And no exaggerations, please. I am tired of people coming here and exaggerating to make a point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. We're from England, and thoroughly unimpressed. My kids get home pretty spent and don't want to do Singapore Math or spelling with mum at 5 or 6pm. They do love their summer camps at Landon School and Holton Arms though.

Have you thought about sending your kids there? They have great financial aid. It is night and day to public school.

For $42,975 (Holton Arms) and Landon School ($39,220 - a bargain!) per year for grades 3-6, one would certainly hope so.

I pay $12K a year after financial aid. This includes everything including daily breakfast, snacks, and lunches. No packing lunches and getting fantastic healthy food is a huge burden off my back. Once a week after school music lesson included as well. They also have free proctored homework zone until 4:35pm so I don’t have to pay for after school care. I also save a ton in clothing as a few uniform pieces suffice for the week. Ratios are anywhere from 10-15 kids per teacher. No standardized testing. Teachers that think outside the box. Take classes outside for lessons. Daily PE or sports. Art a few times a week. A greenhouse garden, etc....

We probably pay $5K a year when you figure after-care, weekly private music lesson, and 2 warm meals a day. Well worth it. Daughter is thriving and happy. Her anxiety is completely gone. So we probably would be using that 5K in therapy and meds. Don’t judge. 25% of families are on FA and they are generous.

I guess it's great that you think $12,000 a year is a bargain? And that it works for you. But I don't think that "Try Holton Arms, they give great financial aid!" is a policy idea that scales up well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Before we moved here, I couldn't have imagined in my worst nightmare that this country does such a poor job educating its populace. Well, of course, there are, and always have been, the elites with their 40K prep schools and subsequent Ivies. But a regular middle-class kid who wants to learn and is able to do the work required that public education should be catering to, is so shortchanged, it's disheartening..

Geez.Not sure if you are talking about MCPS compact math which is the topic of this thread but Compact Math gets a 7th grader to Algebra. Does that make them dummies to you?

I'm curious about this as well. Is the PP talking about compacted math, the topic of this thread--or the regular curriculum? Is it the norm for 7th graders to be beyond Algebra in England or whatever your previous country is? And no exaggerations, please. I am tired of people coming here and exaggerating to make a point.

NP: I have family in the UK and asked about this. If you look at the following link (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-mathematics-programmes-of-study#year-6-programme-of-study), which outlines the UK national math curriculum you can see what kids learn each year. **Note that their grade numbering system is 1 year ahead, which means that year 6 in the UK is 5th grade in the US.

The equivalent Algebra I in the US is taught in the UK during the end of Key Stage 3 and the beginning of Key Stage 4. Key Stage 3 is equivalent to grades 6-8 in the US and Key Stage 4 is 9 and 10th grades. Bottom line, it is NOT the norm for 7th graders to go beyond Algebra I in the UK.

[Anonymous]

^PP

NP: I have family in the UK and asked about this. If you look at the following link (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nationa...tudy#year-6-programme-of-study), which outlines the UK national math curriculum you can see what kids learn each year. **Note that their grade numbering system is 1 year ahead, which means that year 6 in the UK is 5th grade in the US.

The equivalent Algebra I in the US is taught in the UK during the end of Key Stage 3 and the beginning of Key Stage 4. Key Stage 3 is equivalent to grades 6-8 in the US and Key Stage 4 is 9 and 10th grades. Bottom line, it is NOT the norm for 7th graders to go beyond Algebra I in the UK.

[Anonymous]

I think the griping is not so much that the track as a whole is slow but that there isn’t enrichment for kids who get the concepts quickly, so these kids are consistently bored and think math is inherently boring. One used to be able to progress through the K-6 curriculum quicker and/or spend more time on more complicated topics that are easier to enrich and less time on addition and subtraction (and counting) which can only be enriched so much. I mean, my third grader who did fractions was still only expected/allowed to identify fractions as pie slices (what fraction is shaded?) and put them on a number line. Enrichment did not even include adding fractions! Adding and subtracting fractions should be acceptable enrichment for a unit on fractions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. We're from England, and thoroughly unimpressed. My kids get home pretty spent and don't want to do Singapore Math or spelling with mum at 5 or 6pm. They do love their summer camps at Landon School and Holton Arms though.

Have you thought about sending your kids there? They have great financial aid. It is night and day to public school.

For $42,975 (Holton Arms) and Landon School ($39,220 - a bargain!) per year for grades 3-6, one would certainly hope so.

I pay $12K a year after financial aid. This includes everything including daily breakfast, snacks, and lunches. No packing lunches and getting fantastic healthy food is a huge burden off my back. Once a week after school music lesson included as well. They also have free proctored homework zone until 4:35pm so I don’t have to pay for after school care. I also save a ton in clothing as a few uniform pieces suffice for the week. Ratios are anywhere from 10-15 kids per teacher. No standardized testing. Teachers that think outside the box. Take classes outside for lessons. Daily PE or sports. Art a few times a week. A greenhouse garden, etc....

We probably pay $5K a year when you figure after-care, weekly private music lesson, and 2 warm meals a day. Well worth it. Daughter is thriving and happy. Her anxiety is completely gone. So we probably would be using that 5K in therapy and meds. Don’t judge. 25% of families are on FA and they are generous.

My brother loves his kids' private school for lots of reasons (not cost, I don't think they get FA). They are beginning to see the other aspect of private school, though. My brother and SIL don't particularly like it. Whether the self-confidence and ability to talk to teachers as equals is considered a positive or negative is up to each person.

[Anonymous]

We’ve lived in The UK for 2 years. My dd is in year 6. I would say it’s about one year ahead of 5th grade math in the US.

I pay very close attention to what my dd is doing here and common core math because we are moving back.

At the end of year 6 kids cover up to simple linear algebra and geometry. You can look up examples online of 11+ practice papers to get an idea of the math coveted up through year 6.

There is no streaming in primary school. But the teachers seem more adept at differentiating. For example there are 3 levels of practice for every lesson.

Kids are tested and streamed in secondary school. Algebra can begin as early as year 7, so 3 years early compared to US. But it’s not exactly like algebra I.

What I’ve noticed about the US system is that there are a lot of math concepts covered in 7th and 8th grade common core that comes after what most old prealgebra books covered. Even AOPS prealgebra doesn’t cover them. It’s almost like Algebra I Lite. But it seems like many kids in the US skip this and go straight into Algebra I. It’s like there is such a rush to go from mastered all arithmetic straight to AlgebraI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve lived in The UK for 2 years. My dd is in year 6. I would say it’s about one year ahead of 5th grade math in the US.

I pay very close attention to what my dd is doing here and common core math because we are moving back.

At the end of year 6 kids cover up to simple linear algebra and geometry. You can look up examples online of 11+ practice papers to get an idea of the math coveted up through year 6.

There is no streaming in primary school. But the teachers seem more adept at differentiating. For example there are 3 levels of practice for every lesson.

Kids are tested and streamed in secondary school. Algebra can begin as early as year 7, so 3 years early compared to US. But it’s not exactly like algebra I.

What I’ve noticed about the US system is that there are a lot of math concepts covered in 7th and 8th grade common core that comes after what most old prealgebra books covered. Even AOPS prealgebra doesn’t cover them. It’s almost like Algebra I Lite. But it seems like many kids in the US skip this and go straight into Algebra I. It’s like there is such a rush to go from mastered all arithmetic straight to AlgebraI.

For example?

[Anonymous]

I'm also curious about an example... especially when you mentioned that AOPS prealgebra doesn't cover something in the 7-8th grade common core, which I find very hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve lived in The UK for 2 years. My dd is in year 6. I would say it’s about one year ahead of 5th grade math in the US.

I pay very close attention to what my dd is doing here and common core math because we are moving back.

At the end of year 6 kids cover up to simple linear algebra and geometry. You can look up examples online of 11+ practice papers to get an idea of the math coveted up through year 6.

There is no streaming in primary school. But the teachers seem more adept at differentiating. For example there are 3 levels of practice for every lesson.

Kids are tested and streamed in secondary school. Algebra can begin as early as year 7, so 3 years early compared to US. But it’s not exactly like algebra I.

What I’ve noticed about the US system is that there are a lot of math concepts covered in 7th and 8th grade common core that comes after what most old prealgebra books covered. Even AOPS prealgebra doesn’t cover them. It’s almost like Algebra I Lite. But it seems like many kids in the US skip this and go straight into Algebra I. It’s like there is such a rush to go from mastered all arithmetic straight to AlgebraI.

My family lives in the UK now and provided examples to understand how Algebra is introduced. Yes, Algebra can begin in year 7 or 6th grade (US), but it is similar to what MCPS kids in compacted 5/6 cover in terms of concepts. I think it is hard to compare because the UK covers many topics in Key Stage 3, which is equivalent to MS years in the US. Their math seems richer in concepts covered by year 4/3rd grade--so I year ahead of Common Core standard curriculum. There is no stand-alone Algebra I from what my aunt and cousins have explained. However, based on the links and materials my family provided, kids on the compacted math track in MCPS end up at the same point in high school as the UK Key stage 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm also curious about an example... especially when you mentioned that AOPS prealgebra doesn't cover something in the 7-8th grade common core, which I find very hard to believe.

I like AOPS. But there is more content covered in 7th and 8th grade than in the AOPS pre algebra. Systems of equations, more graphing, graphing proportional relationships, 2-4 variable equations, functions. Y=my+b. Formulas like volume of a cone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also curious about an example... especially when you mentioned that AOPS prealgebra doesn't cover something in the 7-8th grade common core, which I find very hard to believe.

I like AOPS. But there is more content covered in 7th and 8th grade than in the AOPS pre algebra. Systems of equations, more graphing, graphing proportional relationships, 2-4 variable equations, functions. Y=my+b. Formulas like volume of a cone.

Systems of equations in common core before Algebra 1? Highly doubt that's the case.. I don't think any students would know how to even start solving a system before taking an algebra class. And functions? Again, no way that would be taught before algebra 1 in the US. Also, volume a cone is just useless memorization (because one cannot understand it well until geometry).

AOPS prealgebra book has a whole chapter on data and statistics. And graphing and analyzing lines in the coordinate plane would not make sense to be taught until algebra, since a good understanding of basic linear equations is needed to grasp them well.

But I don't really care about breadth because high breadth normally means students forget lots of things they see and have to review them again next year. What's much more important, are the things that AOPS does cover really well in prealgebra (e.g number theory, number sense, counting principles, etc) but isn't covered well (or possibly even at all) in 7/8th grade math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also curious about an example... especially when you mentioned that AOPS prealgebra doesn't cover something in the 7-8th grade common core, which I find very hard to believe.

I like AOPS. But there is more content covered in 7th and 8th grade than in the AOPS pre algebra. Systems of equations, more graphing, graphing proportional relationships, 2-4 variable equations, functions. Y=my+b. Formulas like volume of a cone.

Systems of equations in common core before Algebra 1? Highly doubt that's the case.. I don't think any students would know how to even start solving a system before taking an algebra class. And functions? Again, no way that would be taught before algebra 1 in the US. Also, volume a cone is just useless memorization (because one cannot understand it well until geometry).

AOPS prealgebra book has a whole chapter on data and statistics. And graphing and analyzing lines in the coordinate plane would not make sense to be taught until algebra, since a good understanding of basic linear equations is needed to grasp them well.

But I don't really care about breadth because high breadth normally means students forget lots of things they see and have to review them again next year. What's much more important, are the things that AOPS does cover really well in prealgebra (e.g number theory, number sense, counting principles, etc) but isn't covered well (or possibly even at all) in 7/8th grade math.

This is easily researched. Look up common core math standards or khan academy. Khan is CC-aligned. They most certainly cover functions and simultaneous equations in 8th grade. I’m already sold on AoPS. It just fits in better between 6th and 7th or 7th. Btdt.

[Anonymous]

Sure, I'm researching it right now . Just because a standard called Common Core says something, doesn't necessary mean you should take it as a word of god without question without an understanding how it is implemented in schools (e.g how it maps to MCPS compacted math, the subject of this thread), and whether a particular implementation was successful.

Here's their function objective:

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.8.F.A.1
Understand that a function is a rule that assigns to each input exactly one output. The graph of a function is the set of ordered pairs consisting of an input and the corresponding output. (1) (Footnote (1): Function notation is not required for Grade 8.)

So they want kids to know the definition of a function, great. But understand it? Without actually using function notation, or even computing anything with functions? Really? Will they understand it the following year? Or even remember what the definition was? I think we can agree most kids will not.

Below is more of the same focus on memorization without much, if any, understanding. (Also note the irony of how they label blindly plugging into a formula as "problem solving", or even more ridiculous, "real world problem solving" ):

Solve real-world and mathematical problems involving volume of cylinders, cones, and spheres.
CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.8.G.C.9
Know the formulas for the volumes of cones, cylinders, and spheres and use them to solve real-world and mathematical problems.

You are right that there are similar objectives listed in terms of solving equations and graphing listed under Grade 8. But you may notice that the rest of their algebra related objectives are listed under "High School: Algebra". If you look at them you notice that they mainly discuss topics normally taught in what is called Algebra 2 (a second course in algebra). Note that there is no Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 distinction in the standards. And in terms of MCPS implementation, we can confirm that solving equations, graphing, and functions are indeed taught in the MCPS curriculum in "Algebra 1" as described here:

[url]https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/math/high/algebra1/Algebra%20I%20Big%20Picture-with%20standards%20FINAL.pdf
[/url]

Bottom line, compact math topics are not taught rigorously or in depth.