residency fraud? (!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, OP, you seem like a jerk.

Sure. To offer another perspective, we were a family that was unable to get in anywhere off of the lottery, and ended up having to move, to leave a neighborhood we loved and were heavily invested into and a home that we had literally bought only a couple of years earlier based on the location of three very good neighborhood schools that at the time had neighborhood preference and then changed to city wide lottery. Our one remaining inbound school was going to be doing huge renovations and was having major administrative upheaval, was plagued by residency fraud, and seemed too unstable to make an investment in at that point.

So while I understand the myriad reasons that residency fraud exists and is not cracked down on (because I really had to dig deep to make my peace with it and accept that these children are hopefully benefiting from more than just their parent's commute convenience) it was a cause of agony for us and had huge financial ramifications. We accept that we took an educated risk and lost. But system wide there are substantial, soft costs related to res fraud in the community that are not accounted for.

How ... is residency fraud the cause of your issues? You had a neighborhood school you chose not to attend. If you were in "agony" because you believed that there were kids from a different district attending your school ...so much so that you had to move ... that's truly on you.

I guess you missed the part where there were not enough seats in multiple schools. We didn't have a neighborhood school, we had trailers. Yes, we could have chosen to send our child to the trailer option, but it also came with a high price tag of aftercare. We chose based on the idea that if the Reno moved forward, we would have the neighborhood preference lottery option, which was eliminated in two separate schools within blocks of our house. Lack of capacity due to residency fraud is the issue. Moving when we hadn't planned to was the agony.

Dramatic much??? You put yourself though "agony" because your snowflakes couldn't be in a trailers for a year? And you want to blame it all on residency fraud?

[Anonymous]

sure there might be an innocent reason. but maybe there isnt. we know that residency fraud is a major problem in dc, and that lots of people with maryland plates really are bilking the system. if you havent noticed, md and va do not offer free pre-k. if your kid isnt going to pre-k, he or she may be going to daycare, which can easily cost $15,000. so there is a huge financial incentive for people to cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just reported someone thru the website. The student lives in PG with both parents, but her mother works in DC and wanted a free longer school day, plus didn’t want to pay for private anymore. She has her documents pretty well covered though. She registered her car in DC and used a relative’s address. I’m not sure what OSSE can do, really.

Check her state taxes and see if she is paying in DC or MD.

I reported someone like this and unfortunately they were cleared. They had a letter, dated a few years back (purportedly), stating that the child needed to stay with a relative in DC due to financial issues. There were no financial issues whatsoever.

And why would thiese people share their financial issues with you?

I owned a business and the person in was my employee. Making a very good salary.

That only means you know her salary income. That does not explain how you know their financial issues. The two are not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just reported someone thru the website. The student lives in PG with both parents, but her mother works in DC and wanted a free longer school day, plus didn’t want to pay for private anymore. She has her documents pretty well covered though. She registered her car in DC and used a relative’s address. I’m not sure what OSSE can do, really.

Check her state taxes and see if she is paying in DC or MD.

I reported someone like this and unfortunately they were cleared. They had a letter, dated a few years back (purportedly), stating that the child needed to stay with a relative in DC due to financial issues. There were no financial issues whatsoever.

And why would thiese people share their financial issues with you?

I owned a business and the person in was my employee. Making a very good salary.

That only means you know her salary income. That does not explain how you know their financial issues. The two are not the same.

Well I’ve actually been to their house and know the kids live there. This was a solidly middle class family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just reported someone thru the website. The student lives in PG with both parents, but her mother works in DC and wanted a free longer school day, plus didn’t want to pay for private anymore. She has her documents pretty well covered though. She registered her car in DC and used a relative’s address. I’m not sure what OSSE can do, really.

Check her state taxes and see if she is paying in DC or MD.

I reported someone like this and unfortunately they were cleared. They had a letter, dated a few years back (purportedly), stating that the child needed to stay with a relative in DC due to financial issues. There were no financial issues whatsoever.

And why would thiese people share their financial issues with you?

I owned a business and the person in was my employee. Making a very good salary.

That only means you know her salary income. That does not explain how you know their financial issues. The two are not the same.

Well I’ve actually been to their house and know the kids live there. This was a solidly middle class family.

Can we talk for a second a about how you ratted out ***your own employee?***

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just reported someone thru the website. The student lives in PG with both parents, but her mother works in DC and wanted a free longer school day, plus didn’t want to pay for private anymore. She has her documents pretty well covered though. She registered her car in DC and used a relative’s address. I’m not sure what OSSE can do, really.

Check her state taxes and see if she is paying in DC or MD.

I reported someone like this and unfortunately they were cleared. They had a letter, dated a few years back (purportedly), stating that the child needed to stay with a relative in DC due to financial issues. There were no financial issues whatsoever.

And why would thiese people share their financial issues with you?

I owned a business and the person in was my employee. Making a very good salary.

That only means you know her salary income. That does not explain how you know their financial issues. The two are not the same.

Well I’ve actually been to their house and know the kids live there. This was a solidly middle class family.

Can we talk for a second a about how you ratted out ***your own employee?***

If it were my employee they would be fired for committing fraud!

[Anonymous]

I drive a company car with MD plates every single day to drop my kids off and pick them up. Sometimes, I drive a rental when my company car is being serviced. I get so sick of this conversation. If you really feel something is going on, report it. Stop posting your paranoid delusions to garner responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, OP, you seem like a jerk.

Sure. To offer another perspective, we were a family that was unable to get in anywhere off of the lottery, and ended up having to move, to leave a neighborhood we loved and were heavily invested into and a home that we had literally bought only a couple of years earlier based on the location of three very good neighborhood schools that at the time had neighborhood preference and then changed to city wide lottery. Our one remaining inbound school was going to be doing huge renovations and was having major administrative upheaval, was plagued by residency fraud, and seemed too unstable to make an investment in at that point.

So while I understand the myriad reasons that residency fraud exists and is not cracked down on (because I really had to dig deep to make my peace with it and accept that these children are hopefully benefiting from more than just their parent's commute convenience) it was a cause of agony for us and had huge financial ramifications. We accept that we took an educated risk and lost. But system wide there are substantial, soft costs related to res fraud in the community that are not accounted for.

How ... is residency fraud the cause of your issues? You had a neighborhood school you chose not to attend. If you were in "agony" because you believed that there were kids from a different district attending your school ...so much so that you had to move ... that's truly on you.

I guess you missed the part where there were not enough seats in multiple schools. We didn't have a neighborhood school, we had trailers. Yes, we could have chosen to send our child to the trailer option, but it also came with a high price tag of aftercare. We chose based on the idea that if the Reno moved forward, we would have the neighborhood preference lottery option, which was eliminated in two separate schools within blocks of our house. Lack of capacity due to residency fraud is the issue. Moving when we hadn't planned to was the agony.

Dramatic much??? You put yourself though "agony" because your snowflakes couldn't be in a trailers for a year? And you want to blame it all on residency fraud?

Seriously. PP, don't be ridiculous. I very much doubt that residency fraud is the reason for your "agony." You had a neighborhood school. All DC children have a neighborhood school. The school may be located temporarily somewhere else while renovations occur. Aftercare is not guaranteed, so yes, there is a price tag associated with it. You need to recognize that you made choices that resulted in your current situation, and you should be grateful that you had the option to move available to you. It is not that easy for everyone.

[Anonymous]

As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

And they keep the doors open on under-enrolled DCPS schools that are candidates for consolidation or closures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

Oh for sure. OSSE really needs to tighten the documentation for everyone and find ways to accommodate special cases with sensitivity instead of having such a ridiculously low bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

The truth of the matter is that it's currently far too easy to cheat on residency in both DCPS and DCPC, both from out of state and in-boundary where DCPS goes. OSSE's rules on residency aren't well written, clear, or tough. Enforcement has been lax across the board. Tighten up the residency verification regime, including by upping document requirements, and enforcement and the appeal of playing CGI, and preachy posts like this, will taper off soon enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

The truth of the matter is that it's currently far too easy to cheat on residency in both DCPS and DCPC, both from out of state and in-boundary where DCPS goes. OSSE's rules on residency aren't well written, clear, or tough. Enforcement has been lax across the board. Tighten up the residency verification regime, including by upping document requirements, and enforcement and the appeal of playing CGI, and preachy posts like this, will taper off soon enough.

You assume that OSSE WANTS to catch people who are cheating the system.

I do not think they do and I think the City Council and the mayor don't either. OSSE wants to make it easy for people to enroll -- because they really do want everyone who should be in school to be in school. The regs are written for the corner cases to comply with; to ensure there isn't a barrier for the most transient person in a challenging situation to be able to enroll. If some savvy people use the lax rules to cheat, that's an ok price to pay for that at-risk kid to get in.

How many times have DCPS / charters / the mayor / Office of Planning used increasing enrollment in schools as evidence of the city thriving / coming back? They make a show of enforcing some rules to keep the kinds of people who read DCUM mollified, but no one really wants to know what would happen if we had tight rules for school enrollment and residency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I drive a company car with MD plates every single day to drop my kids off and pick them up. Sometimes, I drive a rental when my company car is being serviced. I get so sick of this conversation. If you really feel something is going on, report it. Stop posting your paranoid delusions to garner responses.

Sure, but I don't think the explanation for most cars with MD plates is that they're driving "company cars." I've been directly asked by more than one Silver Spring parent how to go about enrolling their kids in our IB. I think people have been doing it for so long that it isn't considered a big deal for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the truth of the matter is in the middle.

- Yes there are people with MD tags dropping off their kids at school that they attend legally.
- Yes there are people who attend DC school illegally and in more than "just a few cases."

People shouldn't be attacked for reporting people who might be committing fraud. At the same time, you should not follow people home.

But make no mistake, this is not a victim-less crime. Extra students help prop up what would be failing charters, they take OOB spots in good schools from those looking to get out from failing neighborhood schools.

The truth of the matter is that it's currently far too easy to cheat on residency in both DCPS and DCPC, both from out of state and in-boundary where DCPS goes. OSSE's rules on residency aren't well written, clear, or tough. Enforcement has been lax across the board. Tighten up the residency verification regime, including by upping document requirements, and enforcement and the appeal of playing CGI, and preachy posts like this, will taper off soon enough.

You assume that OSSE WANTS to catch people who are cheating the system.

I do not think they do and I think the City Council and the mayor don't either. OSSE wants to make it easy for people to enroll -- because they really do want everyone who should be in school to be in school. The regs are written for the corner cases to comply with; to ensure there isn't a barrier for the most transient person in a challenging situation to be able to enroll. If some savvy people use the lax rules to cheat, that's an ok price to pay for that at-risk kid to get in.

How many times have DCPS / charters / the mayor / Office of Planning used increasing enrollment in schools as evidence of the city thriving / coming back? They make a show of enforcing some rules to keep the kinds of people who read DCUM mollified, but no one really wants to know what would happen if we had tight rules for school enrollment and residency.

OSSE does want to catch cheaters, because they're under increasing political pressure to do so. They just don't want to catch them as much as the "kinds of people who read DCUM" generally want. I don't read a lot of posts by PPs who were investigated by the residency fraud office. We were investigated, and promptly cleared, two years ago, and the process was no walk in the park. We had several days to produce three years of certified tax returns to help the investigator verify our residence. among other documents. We also had to appear in person at the residency fraud investigation office to make our case for legit residency, and to consent to a home visit (which never went forward). Speaking from personal experience, a rigorous process worked very well.