Boys DA 2018-19 Season
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
|
Anonymous
Let me clarify=--much better than the DA video. Of course, not the MIC tournament video. |
Anonymous
It is hard to disagree with this point. 
|
Anonymous
|
Could the DA critics name some 2005 teams in the DMV who play better than Bethesda or DCU? People who have not seen the last two teams play should abstain...
|
Anonymous
And I'm certain we could also google for DA teams that play much better as well. Not sure how anyone feels that posting top Spanish teams and then comparing with DA teams who aren't top teams makes any case at all, other than those top Spanish teams are probably much better than low ranked DA teams in the US. I don't know of anyone "blinded" by DA, they just realize that DA teams on average have more skilled players and are trained to play to US standards. Are there teams out there who are "better" than _top_ DA teams? Sure, it's possible, but they typically don't match on any regular basis so we can't say for certain. What we can say for certain is that, on average, players in the academies are of much higher quality than their age group peers. Note, this doesn't make a sweeping statement that DA players are better than all. |
Anonymous
DA teams play in a closed system league and do not play outside competition aside from a couple of tournaments and friendlies so it is difficult to compare the teams that do not play each other. I know that in older age groups Bethesda DA lost to some local non-DA teams in the friendlies. But shouldn't the quality of DA programs be measured against academy teams from other countries rather than local non-DA clubs? Bethesda 03 DA did well in the MIC cup against non-academy clubs, but once it had to face a real academy team from Spain, the wheels came off. |
Anonymous
|
Agree that it is difficult but that does not stop many people on this thread to claim that there are so many teams that would beat the best DA teams.
A team that came up in some past threads is Doradus but I wonder if people actually saw them play, as they were the typical kick-and- run team, with no midfield but a very talented front line. Now that the latter is playing for DCU, their results have taken a dive. I would genuinely be interested who are the 2005 teams in the DMV that would have a shot at beating Bethesda or DCU... |
Anonymous
| Doradus has a high ranking. Their style of play sucks. |
Anonymous
|
Seems to me that one early season game between two middling 05 DA teams is as representative of DA quality as Crystal Palace v. Newcastle in August would be of the Premier League. On how U14 DAs have done recently against top level European academies, here is the copy/paste of a post I had on another forum about the ICC Futures tournament this summer. These were the 04 DA teams, who would be U15s this season.
https://www.internationalchampionscup.com/en/youth...tures/2018-futures-tournament. This tournament in Orlando (not the Disney cup, but around the same time) featured some of the top U14 academy teams of the world. The structure of the tournament meant that all combinations of teams, American and European, played each other in prelim group play before they were separated into 3 flights for the knockouts, based on where they finished in their groups. Bayern beat Chelsea in the finals of the top flight and I wouldn't be surprised to see many of these players wearing their senior club and national jerseys a few years from now. Bayern had 4 players from the German U15 national pool. Chelsea, Dortmund, Celtics, Liverpool, Tottenham and Atletico Madrid had some of the top prospects that scouts have already started tracking in Europe, according to some of their parents and coaches. How did the American kids do? The scores tell the story - that barring one game (a surprisingly poor NYCFC academy against Atleti), the MLS academy teams and state "all-star" teams (which included many DA players from non-MLS academies, just brought together for this tournament) ran close to the European academies and in some cases, won. "Our" team lost by one late goal to one of the best European teams; Red Bulls and Sounders academies did really well and lost narrowly in the knockouts to the Bayern and Chelsea kids, respectively; and a few of the state teams also had good results, particularly against the English academies. With a little bit of luck, Red Bulls or Sounders could have made it to the finals. As an aside, the level of play was often astonishingly good, and the finals were so much fun to watch on ESPN (we were back here by then). Pity that the MLS and the patchwork "state allstar" teams were the only ones invited to the tournament, even though some of the better DA teams in the country are non-MLS (think PDA, Chicago Sockers, Bethesda for some age groups). What I saw in the games that our team played, and a few others featuring some of the better American teams, was that the best of the US kids were right up there with anyone else in skills, technique, vision and pace of play. Where they seemed to fall short a bit as a team, which led to a disproportionate number of narrow losses, is on the tactical front - that intangible "football brain", which I suspect is as much a product of living, breathing, watching, talking and following soccer as it is of coaching. The best of the European teams just knew when to slow down a game, when to press and where and probe for weaknesses, when to storm forward and when to hold, and when to do the little things to disrupt the rhythm of an opponent who is playing well. They were also ever so slightly better - but that is enough to make the difference at the margin - at decision-making and movement off the ball. I don't know if anyone kept stats, but in every game I saw, the American kids attempted more dribbles and impatient forward passes than their European opponents. Most US teams were trying to play possession-based soccer with high pressing when out of possession, at times rather bravely against the likes of Bayern and Dortmund. But the tactical naivete sometimes meant that they would not be able to adjust when they needed to. As an aside, it's quite amazing how tactically savvy the 14 yo Europeans are, and it's also obvious that no academy is wedded to a rigid style or philosophy. The main difference was thus in the tactical intangibles, or as Paolo Maldini (one of the greatest Italian players ever), who was at the tournament called it, in "knowledge". He asked for coaches in the US to focus on "giving the kids knowledge". I felt that should not just be up to the coaches; should be as much the parents' job to create that environment for kids to imbibe soccer knowledge. |
Anonymous
| Great summary and accurate, both on the level of play of our top DA players and the cultural gap. We may be in a better spot culturally in 30-50 years, but right now we don't have the critical mass needed to be on similar footing to the foreign cultures. Tinkering with league structures, pro/rel, and European training imports in the short term isn't going to cut it. We need soccer to become the destination sport and way of life for these kids, otherwise we are pissing into the wind. And it all starts at home. |
Anonymous
So what about the families that have had the culture for generations now. Are our kids just basically screwed? My kids have grown up in a soccer culture. There were 2 generations of soccer in the family before they arrived. A few professional players in the family line. The only sport that is on the TV is futbol. They have been watching constantly. What we have found is that our kids have always been noted consistently for having a very high soccer IQ. They also have good ball skill, but in the travel system in the DMV that is not what gets recognized in the U9-U12 years so it has been a constant struggle to find coaches and teams to mirror how we want them to play and to recognize and nurture their developing soccer IQ. There was a lot of frustration from the kids about teammates not knowing where to move or accept a pass, etc. Teammates that do nothing but dribble into the ground and coaches that still value the long ball. Having one kid on the smaller side, there were some clubs that don't even bother with those kids at the start. There are a lot of families now that have parents that grew up in the soccer environment and culture. My kids are American, Caucasian but had a very heavy Dutch soccer influence carried down through the generations. We are starting to have more parents on the sidelines that understand the sport, but I feel that due to the huge number of teams and coaches, those in charge often don't have a similar aptitude or understood basic player development. People will accuse families of moving their kids around, but often it is very necessary as the way the system works is you are stuck with one coach for an entire year and if you find the coach for the following year isn't one you see eye to eye on, on how you want your kids developing (read: developing, not winning), it requires moving around. I also think our 'win/gotsoccer' culture and the design of the travel system runs in the face of development. The sport has grown tremendously/exponentially over the past two decades, but the number of people with the ability to teach and develop has not grown in the same manner. There are still too many on the sidelines yelling the wrong things and valuing the wrong things on the field. So we can keep saying year after year, it will start at home and we need a revolution, but the sport has had a major foothold for many decades already. So, again, what are those that already have started at home with grandparents and great grandparents supposed to do? Wait for their great, great grandchildren? Some major insight will happen? I have been hearing that since the 70s. |
Anonymous
The responses to this video were about what I expected. Many will watch and see that both teams are finding it difficult to get sustained possession, high pass strings, or building quality attacks. That much is obvious. Then they compare it to their perception of their own kids team or other teams they've seen at that age, who seem to have more success doing those things. They then conclude the DA isn't all it's cracked up to be, plenty of other clubs doing the same but better, and so on. The reality is that with a few exceptions (LMVSC, Alexandria, Baltimore Celtic, maybe still Doradus), none of the local non-DA 05 teams could hang with either one of these teams. None of the NCSL D1 teams other than Doradus are anywhere close. Same with VPL. To put it in perspective, MCLN's 05 ENCL team, which isn't bad, lost to Loudoun's B team a few weeks ago at OBGC. Make no mistake, the kids on the teams in this video are very, very good players. Relative to other 05 boys in this area, they have outstanding footskills, great first touch and technical ability, awareness and game intelligence. But, it's true that when you watch the video you see lots of bad touches, misplaced passes, poor decisions, and not that much use of skill. Why do you think that is? Where most people go wrong is that they only see what each team is doing with the ball, without understanding what the other team is doing to stop them. Look how organized both teams are defensively. Look how vertically and horizontally compact they are, how quickly they get numbers back in transition. Notice the pressing traps. Look at the man-marking in the midfield. Yes, players are moving off the ball, but their defenders are moving with them. Passing lanes are clogged. Space is hard to come by, and doesn't last long. Notice how many times a player receives the ball without being immediately put under pressure. It almost never happens. When it does it's usually after a back pass to relieve pressure, but only for a second or two, and when that player looks up he doesn't see any obvious options, because everyone is marked and there is not a lot of room in passing lanes to thread the needle. In an environment like that, every technical weakness is exposed and magnified, and that is the environment those kids are putting themselves into every single week. It only gets harder for them when they play teams like DCU, Bethesda, Armour, Philly Union and New York Red Bulls. They will struggle, but that's what will make them better. An honest assessment of local non-DA teams, including the smaller independent clubs like Sporting who do play possession, would reveal that the level of pressure and speed of play is not the same. For those of you who are still not buying it, please give us some examples of clubs who you think have a comparable level of play. Video would be helpful. I am not saying the DA has a monopoly on all the good players in this area. There are many teams that have one or two players who are good enough to make either one of these teams. There are a few - including those I've mentioned above - who probably have 5-6 players on their roster who are good enough, but after that there is a drop off. Oh, and as for the video of the Spanish U14s, FCB's academy is not one of the top 5-10 in Spain. It is one of the top 5 in the entire world. Posting that video as a comparison to these 2 teams is kind of silly. A better comparison would be a match between two 2nd or 3rd division European clubs. That would be interesting to see. |
Anonymous
|
Poster at 23:35 here.
My intention was actually to not convey despair, but positivity - apologies if my post read differently. To me, going toe-to-toe with some of the top players in the world and doing well, losing narrowly (and not by parking the bus in the penalty box), and even winning a few as the DA kids did, should be a cause for hope, not despair. And the intangibles that need a culture change are likely to improve over time. I do agree that too often (but not always), US soccer coaches and scouts value athleticism, speed, strength and one-on-one dribbling skills over other skills and soccer IQ. Size, dribbling and speed do matter, but they need to find a better balance in spotting talent, esp the talent to find and use space, use the first touch, and see and make the pass under pressure. Probably one reason why even at the youth national team level they have better quality among the wing players (speed) and defensive midfielders (size and speed) rather than the "10s" and the deeper-lying playmakers. But I don't see a reason to despair at all. US is basically where Japan and Korea are in soccer, with the youth national teams doing a bit better. That's not a bad place to be in. And just like in Korea and Japan, in spite of a lot of competition from other (and more popular) sports, soccer is growing in popularity and quality of play. The Japanese do not have an all-pervasive football culture, and neither do we (or will we in the next 20 years). Culture changes slowly, and meanwhile, if a kid's soccer skills are being undervalued, I feel that the current system does offer some options and solutions. |
Anonymous
+100 |
Anonymous
| In my experience, all the coaches I’ve talked to treat good dribblers like the plague. All your other points I agree with. |