Out of school suspension in MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm an MCPS teacher who strongly believes in public education, but I send my kids to Catholic school. I live in the neighborhood where I teach and the parents here are out of control. They refuse to hold their kids accountable, let them fail, or accept consequences. The entitlement of some of these kids is outrageous. The Catholic school my kids attend has a strong discipline system and the parents support it.

This was true of us as well. The students at my W feeder were so out of control that I laughed when my principal suggested I COSA my child there. It was hard managing private ES on two MCPS salaries, but we made it to the age DC could latchkey. Discipline is less of a problem at my child’s DCC MS than the school where I teach. Looking to transfer away from parents with their heads in the sand and a lawyer on speed dial.

two-teacher (MCPS) HH

We're moving out of county. I simply cannot stand the excuses made for poor behavior, and I say this for ALL kids - regardless of race and SES status. The parents with money use their lawyers to threaten the schools. So even if the schools try to hold kids to certain standards of behavior and academic performance, parents intervene. Minorities are also held to different standards, which is - in itself - racist. Pushing a kid along - one who can't read on level - and blaming the teachers for issues beyond our control are two reasons that have soured me.

And guess what? I blame us! Until we start rocking the boat and taking our professions back, we will always be pawns. sad, but true

If you think MCPS is worth saving, then inundate the BOE with letters.

One email address - [e-mail] - goes out to all.

I'm assuming you have perfect kids. Lucky you. You do realize that as a teacher, YOU failed a child if they cannot read. That child should have been assessed and given significant interventions by 1st grade and parents shouldn't have to fight for basic supports. We've spent a fortune on private interventions to keep our child at grade level because MCPS services and help are a joke. Teachers are to blame. They need to help advocate for kids and not let them fall through the cracks. Our teacher clearly identified one area of need. We held an IEP mention where we and the teacher agreed and they refused to give my child the basic support they needed. So, instead, they failed him on that subject area in the report card we got a few days later and they never ever mentioned that he was going to fail in that IEP meeting (this a a two day difference).

I am only taking blame for failing to advocate for my profession. How dare you accuse me of any professional "wrongdoing" when you have NO IDEA what goes on in schools on a daily basis. You respond on a board, making a blanket generalization about teachers. While I try to avoid generalizations, I've encountered more and more parents like you over the past three years. You assume teachers are to blame for societal ills. I have two children of my own, and while I'm a teacher, I'm a parent first. As such, my husband and I are their first teachers.

Please tell me how I - a secondary teacher - am responsible for your child's failure. I am NOT a special educator. I have in-depth knowledge of MAPr but do not possess a reading degree and therefore am not comfortable with foundational skills to be mastered between pre-K and grade 5. And while I have brought low readers to the attention of counselors, colleagues, and administrators, the only people who seemed concerned were my colleagues with whom I shared students.

Again, what gives YOU the right to knock us down? especially after I have been told on many occasions by administrators that Athlete X, who could barely read at a 5th grade level, would be promoted because of his athletic prowess on the field

For your information, no child is perfect. My youngest had speech delays and problems with fine motor skills. He went through the county first and then we supplemented with private services. I spent quite a bit on cursive instruction for him b/c using print was too laborious for him.

You are NOT the only parent in the world with children facing obstacles - academic and/or emotional. Please remember that the next time you find the need to displace your hostility upon educators doing their best to survive each day.

You are a big reason why many good educators flee the profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let’s start with ending social promotion. Can’t read by third grade, you repeat third grade. That way, middle schoolers aren’t acting up to disguise they can’t do the work. Teachers won’t be blamed for deficiencies that happened five years earlier in another school. And parents will have an accurate view of their child’s abilities.

I’m not sure why you think there is social promotion in MCPS. The move towards transparency ended that. You either earn the passing grade or you don’t pass the class. There is a formula that is preset for determining whether you pass. Thing is that failing a class or two isn’t going to hold you back a grade. It just means that you take it in summer school or take it again another year.

Also, while I agree that not reading by third grade is a problem, holding a kid back if they are passing everything else is a ridiculous concept.

I see students fail every class in 6th. The parents refuse summer school and the child goes to 7th. It repeats two more times and the child goes to HS. That’s social promotion. No accountability until 9th grade.[/quote

This is not true either. You should see the lengths schools (administrators) take to ensure a student "passes." The credit recovery programs are a joke. There's no rigor (in most cases), and what should have been taught in semester course held five days a week is often abbreviated.

On paper, the student passed. It's a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

Thank you! Sounds like you've observed every classroom in my elementary school. The behaviors are God awful and the lack of action by parents is alarming. We get the range of refusing to take our calls to labeling us as racists because their precious child cannot behave like a human. I'm honestly surprised that the rest of the parents of students who are actually doing the right thing aren't calling our office on a daily basis demanding more be done. Administration's hands are tied - parents need to start going to the BOE. I actually feel bad for our administrators because they can't actually be instructional leaders as they spend most of their days putting out fires and serving as wardens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

Thank you! Sounds like you've observed every classroom in my elementary school. The behaviors are God awful and the lack of action by parents is alarming. We get the range of refusing to take our calls to labeling us as racists because their precious child cannot behave like a human. I'm honestly surprised that the rest of the parents of students who are actually doing the right thing aren't calling our office on a daily basis demanding more be done. Administration's hands are tied - parents need to start going to the BOE. I actually feel bad for our administrators because they can't actually be instructional leaders as they spend most of their days putting out fires and serving as wardens.

I am appalled. And I am thankful that I don't have to deal with teachers like you. The animosity is shocking--both on the teachers AND the parents side.

As a parent of kids in a Catholic school, I am so thankful that we don't have to deal with this sort of discourse between teachers and parents. In our school we work as a team. It is not perfect, but it is certainly better than the cutthroat attitude I witness here on both sides. The sad thing is that the ones who suffer are the children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm an MCPS teacher who strongly believes in public education, but I send my kids to Catholic school. I live in the neighborhood where I teach and the parents here are out of control. They refuse to hold their kids accountable, let them fail, or accept consequences. The entitlement of some of these kids is outrageous. The Catholic school my kids attend has a strong discipline system and the parents support it.

This was true of us as well. The students at my W feeder were so out of control that I laughed when my principal suggested I COSA my child there. It was hard managing private ES on two MCPS salaries, but we made it to the age DC could latchkey. Discipline is less of a problem at my child’s DCC MS than the school where I teach. Looking to transfer away from parents with their heads in the sand and a lawyer on speed dial.

two-teacher (MCPS) HH

We're moving out of county. I simply cannot stand the excuses made for poor behavior, and I say this for ALL kids - regardless of race and SES status. The parents with money use their lawyers to threaten the schools. So even if the schools try to hold kids to certain standards of behavior and academic performance, parents intervene. Minorities are also held to different standards, which is - in itself - racist. Pushing a kid along - one who can't read on level - and blaming the teachers for issues beyond our control are two reasons that have soured me.

And guess what? I blame us! Until we start rocking the boat and taking our professions back, we will always be pawns. sad, but true

If you think MCPS is worth saving, then inundate the BOE with letters.

One email address - [e-mail] - goes out to all.

I'm assuming you have perfect kids. Lucky you. You do realize that as a teacher, YOU failed a child if they cannot read. That child should have been assessed and given significant interventions by 1st grade and parents shouldn't have to fight for basic supports. We've spent a fortune on private interventions to keep our child at grade level because MCPS services and help are a joke. Teachers are to blame. They need to help advocate for kids and not let them fall through the cracks. Our teacher clearly identified one area of need. We held an IEP mention where we and the teacher agreed and they refused to give my child the basic support they needed. So, instead, they failed him on that subject area in the report card we got a few days later and they never ever mentioned that he was going to fail in that IEP meeting (this a a two day difference).

I am only taking blame for failing to advocate for my profession. How dare you accuse me of any professional "wrongdoing" when you have NO IDEA what goes on in schools on a daily basis. You respond on a board, making a blanket generalization about teachers. While I try to avoid generalizations, I've encountered more and more parents like you over the past three years. You assume teachers are to blame for societal ills. I have two children of my own, and while I'm a teacher, I'm a parent first. As such, my husband and I are their first teachers.

Please tell me how I - a secondary teacher - am responsible for your child's failure. I am NOT a special educator. I have in-depth knowledge of MAPr but do not possess a reading degree and therefore am not comfortable with foundational skills to be mastered between pre-K and grade 5. And while I have brought low readers to the attention of counselors, colleagues, and administrators, the only people who seemed concerned were my colleagues with whom I shared students.

Again, what gives YOU the right to knock us down? especially after I have been told on many occasions by administrators that Athlete X, who could barely read at a 5th grade level, would be promoted because of his athletic prowess on the field

For your information, no child is perfect. My youngest had speech delays and problems with fine motor skills. He went through the county first and then we supplemented with private services. I spent quite a bit on cursive instruction for him b/c using print was too laborious for him.

You are NOT the only parent in the world with children facing obstacles - academic and/or emotional. Please remember that the next time you find the need to displace your hostility upon educators doing their best to survive each day.

You are a big reason why many good educators flee the profession.

If you know a 5th grader cannot read, then yes, you and your school failed this child by not getting him the support he needed. If you did not have the background you either initiate or help the parents strongly advocate for an appropriate IEP with a reading specialist who can help. You take that extra few minutes to work with the child lagging behind instead of ignoring the issue. I am amazed at our IEP meetings how the teacher and we will say the same thing and how the specialists and admin blow us off because child is ok in the testing scores. Its sad how sometimes it is the simple things that can make a difference but too many people are like you and say, sorry, not my job, so I don need to help.

Yes, I hope parents like me help to weed out the bad teachers and other professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

Thank you! Sounds like you've observed every classroom in my elementary school. The behaviors are God awful and the lack of action by parents is alarming. We get the range of refusing to take our calls to labeling us as racists because their precious child cannot behave like a human. I'm honestly surprised that the rest of the parents of students who are actually doing the right thing aren't calling our office on a daily basis demanding more be done. Administration's hands are tied - parents need to start going to the BOE. I actually feel bad for our administrators because they can't actually be instructional leaders as they spend most of their days putting out fires and serving as wardens.

Our teachers and administrators and specialists don't return phone calls or emails so as a parent, after several years of the non-sense, we gave up. You are putting out fires because you don't team with parents and make them apart of their child's education. Our school doesn't allow parent volunteers, only a 10 minute parent conference a year and very few papers returned/graded so we have no idea how our kids are doing. I only go the MAP scores when my child could tell me as teachers refused to tell me (until someone here kindly posted how to get them). And, yes, our admin. are racist. We stopped calling and emailing as no one cares. That is why parents stopped going to the PTA meetings, stopped donating and do the absolute minimum.

[Anonymous]

Which ones would you recommend? I assumed that which is why I looked but the numbers were very few. I am more concerned about non-Christian and how they handle that. There is a big difference between non-Catholic and non-Christian in terms of beliefs.

A friend is Muslim and her son is at St. John the Evangelist in Silver Spring.

Thanks. That was one I didn't look at as they looked very religious online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things lik.

Which ones would you recommend? I assumed that which is why I looked but the numbers were very few. I am more concerned about non-Christian and how they handle that. There is a big difference between non-Catholic and non-Christian in terms of beliefs.

Catholic school mom here. I would recommend that you not pursue a Catholic school education based on your concerns. The Catholic schools are very accepting of other religions. However, they will be teaching your child the Hail Mary and Our Father, have religion class every day, attend mass at least 1X per week, and yes, encourage them to go to pro-life marches. This is what the Catholic church preaches, and what Catholic schools instill. Some may be more conservative than others, but I can guarantee that just about every one has a bus taking eighth graders to DC for the pro-life march every January. Expect to also see this happening in Catholic high schools as well. Of course attending is not mandatory, but the discussion will be happening in the classroom.

Thank you. We looked at several and one I liked and I think they'd handle it better than the others but I am still hesitant. I am not ok with things like the pro-life march and don't want my child exposed to it which is why I'm hesitant. There is no way my 8th grader will be going to a anti-choice march. I'm not supporting him supporting people who are anti abortion, yet are not willing to adopt and foster kids who need homes (not just newborns).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things lik.

Which ones would you recommend? I assumed that which is why I looked but the numbers were very few. I am more concerned about non-Christian and how they handle that. There is a big difference between non-Catholic and non-Christian in terms of beliefs.

Catholic school mom here. I would recommend that you not pursue a Catholic school education based on your concerns. The Catholic schools are very accepting of other religions. However, they will be teaching your child the Hail Mary and Our Father, have religion class every day, attend mass at least 1X per week, and yes, encourage them to go to pro-life marches. This is what the Catholic church preaches, and what Catholic schools instill. Some may be more conservative than others, but I can guarantee that just about every one has a bus taking eighth graders to DC for the pro-life march every January. Expect to also see this happening in Catholic high schools as well. Of course attending is not mandatory, but the discussion will be happening in the classroom.

Thank you. We looked at several and one I liked and I think they'd handle it better than the others but I am still hesitant. I am not ok with things like the pro-life march and don't want my child exposed to it which is why I'm hesitant. There is no way my 8th grader will be going to a anti-choice march. I'm not supporting him supporting people who are anti abortion, yet are not willing to adopt and foster kids who need homes (not just newborns).

Why not? I am pro choice, but my high school son is pro life. I think kids should make up their own minds at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

Thank you! Sounds like you've observed every classroom in my elementary school. The behaviors are God awful and the lack of action by parents is alarming. We get the range of refusing to take our calls to labeling us as racists because their precious child cannot behave like a human. I'm honestly surprised that the rest of the parents of students who are actually doing the right thing aren't calling our office on a daily basis demanding more be done. Administration's hands are tied - parents need to start going to the BOE. I actually feel bad for our administrators because they can't actually be instructional leaders as they spend most of their days putting out fires and serving as wardens.

Not just administrators. In my school it's also the staff development teacher, reading specialist, math content coach and special ed and ESOL teachers as well. There are constantly fires to be put out and people who have to follow kids around the school to make sure they don't run out the door during their tantrums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If the kid is so disrespectful to staff and peers that the teacher can't even teach, then that is grounds for removal from the classroom. If this happens in multiple classrooms, then it can clearly reach the level for suspension/ parents required to pick up the student that day. MCPS is not a daycare service.

NP +1

Excluding a child from school is a last resort and if your kid behaves very badly in class (and yes, "talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff" does fall into that category) then it's YOUR job to do something about it. Teachers are there to teach, not to raise your child and change him from a wild animal into a student who is willing to learn and allow others to learn.

If sending your kid home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior, then you need to change the way you think about suspensions. Maybe get your kid working in a soup kitchen for those days (and nights) that he's suspended. Or supervise him picking up all the trash and dog crap in every local park. Whatever you need to do to make suspensions unpleasant enough for your child that he doesn't mouth off to the teacher all day and stop the other kids from being able to learn.

Of course, that would actually involve some parenting. But it can be done.

And if your kid really is so unable to control himself and cannot possibly resist mouthing off all day no matter how you punish him (and that's assuming absolutely no tech, no privileges, etc, in addition to the chores above) then you need to accept that he's not a normal kid and he needs a special placement. You can't just keep sending him back into regular school and expecting everyone else to put up with your disruptive and totally disrespectful kid.

Nailed it!

Thank you! Sounds like you've observed every classroom in my elementary school. The behaviors are God awful and the lack of action by parents is alarming. We get the range of refusing to take our calls to labeling us as racists because their precious child cannot behave like a human. I'm honestly surprised that the rest of the parents of students who are actually doing the right thing aren't calling our office on a daily basis demanding more be done. Administration's hands are tied - parents need to start going to the BOE. I actually feel bad for our administrators because they can't actually be instructional leaders as they spend most of their days putting out fires and serving as wardens.

Our teachers and administrators and specialists don't return phone calls or emails so as a parent, after several years of the non-sense, we gave up. You are putting out fires because you don't team with parents and make them apart of their child's education. Our school doesn't allow parent volunteers, only a 10 minute parent conference a year and very few papers returned/graded so we have no idea how our kids are doing. I only go the MAP scores when my child could tell me as teachers refused to tell me (until someone here kindly posted how to get them). And, yes, our admin. are racist. We stopped calling and emailing as no one cares. That is why parents stopped going to the PTA meetings, stopped donating and do the absolute minimum.

Lady, you have no idea. At my school we constantly try to contact parents and the majority of parents who have kids with behavior issues either don't have working phone numbers, don't answer the phone or emails or tell us that it's our problem to deal with. We schedule conferences, EMTs, FBA and BIP meetings at a date/time when the parents tell us they can attend and then they don't show up. There is a pattern in the communication log where the kids with the most behavioral issues have numerous "no parent response" entries. We had one tell us to call the police next time instead of calling them because they don't have time to deal with it and if it happens during school hours then it's our problem. This is for a 3rd grader who clearly needs more help than we can provide at the school level, and we can't force the parent to access mental health services.

When I first started teaching 14 years ago there was maybe one child in the whole school with behavior issues as severe as we're seeing now. There's now about one in every class. It's not fair to the other students who are losing their right to a safe school environment, the staff members who are harassed and abused by them (hit, kicked & spit on, not to mention the vile words that come out of their mouths), and also not fair to the child him/herself as clearly their needs aren't being met at home or at school. I'm sorry your particular school doesn't seem to be quite as responsive as you would like, but your generalizations don't do anyone any favors when you have no clue what is actually happening on the other end.

[Anonymous]

What can be done with these kids who hit, kick and curse out staff on a regular basis? Is expulsion an option? Can the school or county force these kids into alternative schools?

[Anonymous]

NP but what the PP teacher describes is basically the same in my school. I was shocked my first year that none of the numbers the parents gave on the emergency forms worked. They were either disconnected or assigned to new people. We've had administrators go to the hospital with some of our students when they've gotten hurt or ill but the parents didn't know until the police showed up at their door. None of the numbers worked. Our office staff is used to being cursed at every day in person and on the phone by parents. Some kids have pages and pages of notes in their files about how teachers, admin, social worker, counselor, etc have tried to contact them. A few weeks ago, one of my students (first grader) told the counselor that she shouldn't make a home visit or his mom would get mad. Yeah, that's an understatement. The neighbors called the cops because the mom was carrying on so much when the counselor, admin, etc showed up at the door. It's a miracle any of these kids grow up to be normal adults. If we ever get grant money, it goes to more mental health services for the kids. If their parents act like this is public, you can only imagine how they act in private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP but what the PP teacher describes is basically the same in my school. I was shocked my first year that none of the numbers the parents gave on the emergency forms worked. They were either disconnected or assigned to new people. We've had administrators go to the hospital with some of our students when they've gotten hurt or ill but the parents didn't know until the police showed up at their door. None of the numbers worked. Our office staff is used to being cursed at every day in person and on the phone by parents. Some kids have pages and pages of notes in their files about how teachers, admin, social worker, counselor, etc have tried to contact them. A few weeks ago, one of my students (first grader) told the counselor that she shouldn't make a home visit or his mom would get mad. Yeah, that's an understatement. The neighbors called the cops because the mom was carrying on so much when the counselor, admin, etc showed up at the door. It's a miracle any of these kids grow up to be normal adults. If we ever get grant money, it goes to more mental health services for the kids. If their parents act like this is public, you can only imagine how they act in private.

They generally don't. That's the problem. They have a bunch of kids that they have no business having because they have no inclination or idea how to raise them and the cycle continues.

We either need to stop people from having kids when they shouldn't or we need to force people to actually raise their kids. Otherwise things will just continue to get worse.