Out of school suspension in MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how every discussion comes down to race... this is totally NOT helpful for the OP nor is what she sees right now. Unless you have a child in this type of situation, then please STOP... and move on to another discussion where you can complain about MCPS and how your genius children are being short-changed.

OP -- if this is happening multiple times, you need to ask that the school evaluate your child for a potential disability that is impacting his functioning in school. Perhaps he has ADHD or something? Have you had him evaluated? Perhaps the suspensions are just now ringing alarm bells for you that something bigger is happening. Children with suspected disabilities have rights... and one of them is that suspensions are not used in place of interventions that can really help them. Please take your child to a psychologist or a developmental pediatrician if you think something bigger is at play here. Good luck!

FFS, it becomes about race because MCPS has made everything about race. I agree with you completely that consequences should be implemented regardless of race. MCPS disagrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If your child is white or Asian, he is out of luck. MCPS trys to reduce the suspension rate for blacks and hispanics now. They can neither keep the troubled bl and hispanic students in the classroom or suspend more white or Asian students so the rate of bl and hispanic students being disciplined will go lower. You need either find a lawyer to navigate the system or find a private school for your ds.

Or maybe her kid can start behaving himself.
Black and Hispanic kids get suspended from our school, so stop the trolling.

She’s not trolling. I work for MCPS, and the county is carefully tracking these numbers.

Yes, that is why sometimes my principal unofficially suspends kids. Basically when it goes too far to be ignored but they don’t want the data to show they suspended an AA or HI male. I am in a position at my school where I am able to see suspension data and the kids who most deserve it (most egregious behavior over multiple instances) aren’t on there as having received suspensions. I know my principal unofficially suspends them but doesn’t want the data to reflect that because then they’d have to hear it from their boss and Central Office. This shouldn’t be allowed at all but it happens. If a kid’s behavior is egregious enough for a suspension then it should be properly documented for the student’s sake as well. Sometimes an alternative placement is the best environment for the student and there needs to be documentation to help make that argument.

+1 on the scam of using unofficial suspensions to keep it off the books. Any parent who is asked to pick up a child early or to keep that at home should be asking for paperwork - documentation of the incident an a form indicating reason for suspension, lesser alternative solutions tried and failed, term of suspension and rights of appeal.

Schools do this unofficial suspension crap also all the time to kids with IEPs and 504s to cover up failure to provide FAPE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every discussion comes down to race... this is totally NOT helpful for the OP nor is what she sees right now. Unless you have a child in this type of situation, then please STOP... and move on to another discussion where you can complain about MCPS and how your genius children are being short-changed.

OP -- if this is happening multiple times, you need to ask that the school evaluate your child for a potential disability that is impacting his functioning in school. Perhaps he has ADHD or something? Have you had him evaluated? Perhaps the suspensions are just now ringing alarm bells for you that something bigger is happening. Children with suspected disabilities have rights... and one of them is that suspensions are not used in place of interventions that can really help them. Please take your child to a psychologist or a developmental pediatrician if you think something bigger is at play here. Good luck!

FFS, it becomes about race because MCPS has made everything about race. I agree with you completely that consequences should be implemented regardless of race. MCPS disagrees.

The problem is that many teachers and school staff are racist. Imagine the Starbucks thing happening every day in school multiple times. Teachers are not comfortable with the slightest bit of question or challenge or sloppiness from non-white kids.

Not white and late to class by 2 seconds - the teacher will shut the door in your face and make you go to the office for shaming and a pass back to class. If a quiz was scheduled, you will get a zero. White? Teacher holds the door open smiles and says, "glad you could join us.". You get to take the quiz.

Not white and in the hallway without a pass? School security guard will personally walk you to the office and make sure you get detention. White girl in the hallway? School security guard will walk you to class and chat with you on the way. (My daughter literally calls this the "white girl pass".)

Not white and want to get on a school bus? Bus driver may refuse to take you for being a "troublemaker". White and threw something out the window while the bus was moving? Bus driver will tell your mom, but won't recuse to take you.

Non-white and challenge or disrespect a teacher verbally while any of the above is happening? You will be suspended, and lucky if you are not physically beat up by security. White and challenge or disrespect a teacher or another student? You are exercising your free speech.

All these are real stories reported to me by my white children. Racism is alive and well in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every discussion comes down to race... this is totally NOT helpful for the OP nor is what she sees right now. Unless you have a child in this type of situation, then please STOP... and move on to another discussion where you can complain about MCPS and how your genius children are being short-changed.

OP -- if this is happening multiple times, you need to ask that the school evaluate your child for a potential disability that is impacting his functioning in school. Perhaps he has ADHD or something? Have you had him evaluated? Perhaps the suspensions are just now ringing alarm bells for you that something bigger is happening. Children with suspected disabilities have rights... and one of them is that suspensions are not used in place of interventions that can really help them. Please take your child to a psychologist or a developmental pediatrician if you think something bigger is at play here. Good luck!

FFS, it becomes about race because MCPS has made everything about race. I agree with you completely that consequences should be implemented regardless of race. MCPS disagrees.

The problem is that many teachers and school staff are racist. Imagine the Starbucks thing happening every day in school multiple times. Teachers are not comfortable with the slightest bit of question or challenge or sloppiness from non-white kids.

Not white and late to class by 2 seconds - the teacher will shut the door in your face and make you go to the office for shaming and a pass back to class. If a quiz was scheduled, you will get a zero. White? Teacher holds the door open smiles and says, "glad you could join us.". You get to take the quiz.

Not white and in the hallway without a pass? School security guard will personally walk you to the office and make sure you get detention. White girl in the hallway? School security guard will walk you to class and chat with you on the way. (My daughter literally calls this the "white girl pass".)

Not white and want to get on a school bus? Bus driver may refuse to take you for being a "troublemaker". White and threw something out the window while the bus was moving? Bus driver will tell your mom, but won't recuse to take you.

Non-white and challenge or disrespect a teacher verbally while any of the above is happening? You will be suspended, and lucky if you are not physically beat up by security. White and challenge or disrespect a teacher or another student? You are exercising your free speech.

All these are real stories reported to me by my white children. Racism is alive and well in MCPS.

Not at our school. Principal hates the white kid and treats them much more severely. I was told to cut my child's hair and I cannot imagine them saying that to another race child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If your child is white or Asian, he is out of luck. MCPS trys to reduce the suspension rate for blacks and hispanics now. They can neither keep the troubled bl and hispanic students in the classroom or suspend more white or Asian students so the rate of bl and hispanic students being disciplined will go lower. You need either find a lawyer to navigate the system or find a private school for your ds.

Or maybe her kid can start behaving himself.
Black and Hispanic kids get suspended from our school, so stop the trolling.

She’s not trolling. I work for MCPS, and the county is carefully tracking these numbers.

Yes, that is why sometimes my principal unofficially suspends kids. Basically when it goes too far to be ignored but they don’t want the data to show they suspended an AA or HI male. I am in a position at my school where I am able to see suspension data and the kids who most deserve it (most egregious behavior over multiple instances) aren’t on there as having received suspensions. I know my principal unofficially suspends them but doesn’t want the data to reflect that because then they’d have to hear it from their boss and Central Office. This shouldn’t be allowed at all but it happens. If a kid’s behavior is egregious enough for a suspension then it should be properly documented for the student’s sake as well. Sometimes an alternative placement is the best environment for the student and there needs to be documentation to help make that argument.

+1 on the scam of using unofficial suspensions to keep it off the books. Any parent who is asked to pick up a child early or to keep that at home should be asking for paperwork - documentation of the incident an a form indicating reason for suspension, lesser alternative solutions tried and failed, term of suspension and rights of appeal.

Schools do this unofficial suspension crap also all the time to kids with IEPs and 504s to cover up failure to provide FAPE.

What schools are doing this unofficial thing? That really bothers me. They should fix the underlying reason principals feel they need to fly under the radar, but in the meantime scamming isn’t the answer—it just obscures the problem and makes it difficult for troubled kids to get appropriate help or an IEP or whatever they need because they haven’t accrued evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every discussion comes down to race... this is totally NOT helpful for the OP nor is what she sees right now. Unless you have a child in this type of situation, then please STOP... and move on to another discussion where you can complain about MCPS and how your genius children are being short-changed.

OP -- if this is happening multiple times, you need to ask that the school evaluate your child for a potential disability that is impacting his functioning in school. Perhaps he has ADHD or something? Have you had him evaluated? Perhaps the suspensions are just now ringing alarm bells for you that something bigger is happening. Children with suspected disabilities have rights... and one of them is that suspensions are not used in place of interventions that can really help them. Please take your child to a psychologist or a developmental pediatrician if you think something bigger is at play here. Good luck!

FFS, it becomes about race because MCPS has made everything about race. I agree with you completely that consequences should be implemented regardless of race. MCPS disagrees.

The problem is that many teachers and school staff are racist. Imagine the Starbucks thing happening every day in school multiple times. Teachers are not comfortable with the slightest bit of question or challenge or sloppiness from non-white kids.

Not white and late to class by 2 seconds - the teacher will shut the door in your face and make you go to the office for shaming and a pass back to class. If a quiz was scheduled, you will get a zero. White? Teacher holds the door open smiles and says, "glad you could join us.". You get to take the quiz.

Not white and in the hallway without a pass? School security guard will personally walk you to the office and make sure you get detention. White girl in the hallway? School security guard will walk you to class and chat with you on the way. (My daughter literally calls this the "white girl pass".)

Not white and want to get on a school bus? Bus driver may refuse to take you for being a "troublemaker". White and threw something out the window while the bus was moving? Bus driver will tell your mom, but won't recuse to take you.

Non-white and challenge or disrespect a teacher verbally while any of the above is happening? You will be suspended, and lucky if you are not physically beat up by security. White and challenge or disrespect a teacher or another student? You are exercising your free speech.

All these are real stories reported to me by my white children. Racism is alive and well in MCPS.

As a teacher in MCPS who has worked at both difficult schools and high achieving schools, I find this hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If your child is white or Asian, he is out of luck. MCPS trys to reduce the suspension rate for blacks and hispanics now. They can neither keep the troubled bl and hispanic students in the classroom or suspend more white or Asian students so the rate of bl and hispanic students being disciplined will go lower. You need either find a lawyer to navigate the system or find a private school for your ds.

Or maybe her kid can start behaving himself.
Black and Hispanic kids get suspended from our school, so stop the trolling.

She’s not trolling. I work for MCPS, and the county is carefully tracking these numbers.

Yes, that is why sometimes my principal unofficially suspends kids. Basically when it goes too far to be ignored but they don’t want the data to show they suspended an AA or HI male. I am in a position at my school where I am able to see suspension data and the kids who most deserve it (most egregious behavior over multiple instances) aren’t on there as having received suspensions. I know my principal unofficially suspends them but doesn’t want the data to reflect that because then they’d have to hear it from their boss and Central Office. This shouldn’t be allowed at all but it happens. If a kid’s behavior is egregious enough for a suspension then it should be properly documented for the student’s sake as well. Sometimes an alternative placement is the best environment for the student and there needs to be documentation to help make that argument.

+1 on the scam of using unofficial suspensions to keep it off the books. Any parent who is asked to pick up a child early or to keep that at home should be asking for paperwork - documentation of the incident an a form indicating reason for suspension, lesser alternative solutions tried and failed, term of suspension and rights of appeal.

Schools do this unofficial suspension crap also all the time to kids with IEPs and 504s to cover up failure to provide FAPE.

What schools are doing this unofficial thing? That really bothers me. They should fix the underlying reason principals feel they need to fly under the radar, but in the meantime scamming isn’t the answer—it just obscures the problem and makes it difficult for troubled kids to get appropriate help or an IEP or whatever they need because they haven’t accrued evidence.

Our school does this. It is very well known. Parents and teachers have been incredibly frustrated and some parents have gone to the Cluster Super. But I’m guessing ALL the admin are in the same situation and under the same pressures.

Agree that it obscures the problem. And IMO, it’s confusing to the kids who need solid limits. Especially in ES.

[Anonymous]

PP again

The MCPS policies also lead to low staff and student morale. How would you feel if you had to deal with disrespectful kids day in and day out? Teachers should know that the admin has their back and expects the kids to behave appropriately.

PBIS is a joke. By 3rd grade, the kids are over it.

The Staff Morale Surveys at our ES are consistently abysmal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every discussion comes down to race... this is totally NOT helpful for the OP nor is what she sees right now. Unless you have a child in this type of situation, then please STOP... and move on to another discussion where you can complain about MCPS and how your genius children are being short-changed.

OP -- if this is happening multiple times, you need to ask that the school evaluate your child for a potential disability that is impacting his functioning in school. Perhaps he has ADHD or something? Have you had him evaluated? Perhaps the suspensions are just now ringing alarm bells for you that something bigger is happening. Children with suspected disabilities have rights... and one of them is that suspensions are not used in place of interventions that can really help them. Please take your child to a psychologist or a developmental pediatrician if you think something bigger is at play here. Good luck!

FFS, it becomes about race because MCPS has made everything about race. I agree with you completely that consequences should be implemented regardless of race. MCPS disagrees.

The problem is that many teachers and school staff are racist. Imagine the Starbucks thing happening every day in school multiple times. Teachers are not comfortable with the slightest bit of question or challenge or sloppiness from non-white kids.

Not white and late to class by 2 seconds - the teacher will shut the door in your face and make you go to the office for shaming and a pass back to class. If a quiz was scheduled, you will get a zero. White? Teacher holds the door open smiles and says, "glad you could join us.". You get to take the quiz.

Not white and in the hallway without a pass? School security guard will personally walk you to the office and make sure you get detention. White girl in the hallway? School security guard will walk you to class and chat with you on the way. (My daughter literally calls this the "white girl pass".)

Not white and want to get on a school bus? Bus driver may refuse to take you for being a "troublemaker". White and threw something out the window while the bus was moving? Bus driver will tell your mom, but won't recuse to take you.

Non-white and challenge or disrespect a teacher verbally while any of the above is happening? You will be suspended, and lucky if you are not physically beat up by security. White and challenge or disrespect a teacher or another student? You are exercising your free speech.

All these are real stories reported to me by my white children. Racism is alive and well in MCPS.

As a teacher in MCPS who has worked at both difficult schools and high achieving schools, I find this hard to believe.

Same here. Sometimes the student who makes a bad choice over and over again happens to be AA or HI. Just because they’re AA or HI doesn’t mean they shouldn’t face consequences for breaking the rules. I actually see the opposite at my school —AA or HI boys who are outrageously disrespectful get almost coddled and don’t face any real consequences, but students of any other race who make the same choices do face consequences. The only students who have officially been suspended this year are Asian or White, and those were one off circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP again

The MCPS policies also lead to low staff and student morale. How would you feel if you had to deal with disrespectful kids day in and day out? Teachers should know that the admin has their back and expects the kids to behave appropriately.

PBIS is a joke. By 3rd grade, the kids are over it.

The Staff Morale Surveys at our ES are consistently abysmal.

+1. We are allowed to be abused every day under this code of conduct. Students don’t have it any better either. They see some classmates be able to be completely out of control and they see nothing happening so wonder why they face consequences for far more minor things. It is a terrible situation.

[Anonymous]

"Same here. Sometimes the student who makes a bad choice over and over again happens to be AA or HI. Just because they’re AA or HI doesn’t mean they shouldn’t face consequences for breaking the rules. I actually see the opposite at my school —AA or HI boys who are outrageously disrespectful get almost coddled and don’t face any real consequences, but students of any other race who make the same choices do face consequences. The only students who have officially been suspended this year are Asian or White, and those were one off circumstances."


This has been our experience as well. Now that I read how the schools are tracking disciplinary procedures broken down by race, it all makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the MCPS code of conduct and discipline policy and it seems to be saying that out of school suspensions should not be used unless efforts to keep the kid in school really are not working. The document talks about things like restorative opportunities, opportunities for apologizing, peer justice, etc. These all sound like great things but our middle school keeps suspending my kid for nonviolent offenses such as talking back with inappropriate language and disobeying requests from staff. They’ve never given them a behavioral plan, they’ve tried to work with him but today I had to ask if he could even talk to a counselor before he was booted out the door on his suspension. They don’t seem to offer anything but out the door you go. Come pick him up. Has anyone found that MCPS handles suspensions a little more lightly than I am experiencing? Have you ever complained or fought the suspension and how do you do that in MCPS? In my opinion suspension is just stupid unless the kid is a physical threat to someone at school. Sending him home for a few days does nothing to help him change his behavior and I thought MCPS was getting that point.

If your child is white or Asian, he is out of luck. MCPS trys to reduce the suspension rate for blacks and hispanics now. They can neither keep the troubled bl and hispanic students in the classroom or suspend more white or Asian students so the rate of bl and hispanic students being disciplined will go lower. You need either find a lawyer to navigate the system or find a private school for your ds.

Or maybe her kid can start behaving himself.
Black and Hispanic kids get suspended from our school, so stop the trolling.

She’s not trolling. I work for MCPS, and the county is carefully tracking these numbers.

Yes, that is why sometimes my principal unofficially suspends kids. Basically when it goes too far to be ignored but they don’t want the data to show they suspended an AA or HI male. I am in a position at my school where I am able to see suspension data and the kids who most deserve it (most egregious behavior over multiple instances) aren’t on there as having received suspensions. I know my principal unofficially suspends them but doesn’t want the data to reflect that because then they’d have to hear it from their boss and Central Office. This shouldn’t be allowed at all but it happens. If a kid’s behavior is egregious enough for a suspension then it should be properly documented for the student’s sake as well. Sometimes an alternative placement is the best environment for the student and there needs to be documentation to help make that argument.

+1 on the scam of using unofficial suspensions to keep it off the books. Any parent who is asked to pick up a child early or to keep that at home should be asking for paperwork - documentation of the incident an a form indicating reason for suspension, lesser alternative solutions tried and failed, term of suspension and rights of appeal.

Schools do this unofficial suspension crap also all the time to kids with IEPs and 504s to cover up failure to provide FAPE.

What schools are doing this unofficial thing? That really bothers me. They should fix the underlying reason principals feel they need to fly under the radar, but in the meantime scamming isn’t the answer—it just obscures the problem and makes it difficult for troubled kids to get appropriate help or an IEP or whatever they need because they haven’t accrued evidence.

Our school does this. It is very well known. Parents and teachers have been incredibly frustrated and some parents have gone to the Cluster Super. But I’m guessing ALL the admin are in the same situation and under the same pressures.

Agree that it obscures the problem. And IMO, it’s confusing to the kids who need solid limits. Especially in ES.

Our school kept my child in the office all day one day and took away several days of lunch and recess for something really minor. It was bizarre as all the kids were doing it. I had no idea they were holding him hostage all day in the office or I would have gone to the school and taken him. I believe in holding kids accountable but he copied another child, they knew it, scape coated him and then when the other kids kept doing it, he kept getting blamed when he didn't continue to do it. All the kids act similar at our school, except some with high SN and that's a different situation. However, they are much more severe on the white kids than other races and hold some kids, like mine to a different standard (including telling us how he should dress and wear his hair - neat, clean nothing remarkable). Schools are very inconsistent with how they handle things. It sounds like he should have also had protection under his IEP and clearly did not. So those wanting to make it a race issue, you'll be happy to know my white kid is bullied by other kids and nothing is done and he is severely punished for something minor he didn't even fully understand.

I truly wish this county had more affordable privates beyond the catholic schools.

[Anonymous]

An IEP doesn’t protect you from discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An IEP doesn’t protect you from discipline.

No, but it protects a child to do it more appropriately and should be done based off the child's needs. My child didn't fully understand when the principal and VP were yelling at him as he couldn't process it. When I showed up at pick up time, they still had him hostage hours later yelling at him and he clearly wasn't getting all of it. Yelling at one child to set an example for hours is not ok regardless of IEP when all the kids are doing it and its a classroom management issue, not an individual kid and interestingly none of the other kids got in as serious trouble as mine, which was frustrating when it was his first time getting in trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IEP doesn’t protect you from discipline.

No, but it protects a child to do it more appropriately and should be done based off the child's needs. My child didn't fully understand when the principal and VP were yelling at him as he couldn't process it. When I showed up at pick up time, they still had him hostage hours later yelling at him and he clearly wasn't getting all of it. Yelling at one child to set an example for hours is not ok regardless of IEP when all the kids are doing it and its a classroom management issue, not an individual kid and interestingly none of the other kids got in as serious trouble as mine, which was frustrating when it was his first time getting in trouble.

I think you’re taking a very one sided approach to this. You think your kid was really held hostage and yelled at for hours on end?