Middle class families - Are you willing to take on a ton of debt for a top college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

They are not equally good. Only insecure Virginians will tell you that - and I live in the Old Dominion so I hear such crap all the time.

That said, I wouldn't borrow more than a total of $50k over 4 years to attend Columbia. I wouldn't attend if the only way to do it was to work $20+ hours a week. I wouldn't do it if I would have to turn down summer experiences to work a crappy job that paid.

It isn't just getting into college, but what you are able to do with the opportunities once you arrive. Columbia just isn't worth it if money gets in the way of enjoying the opportunities. They made the right choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Why do people exaggerate everything? Subtract cost of UVA and it's only $140k. And if Columbia gives zero aid that means the parents have assets. Quit being cheapskates and reward your kid's hard work.

This is a good way of looking at it. An extra 140k is worth investing in your child's future prospects imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Why do people exaggerate everything? Subtract cost of UVA and it's only $140k. And if Columbia gives zero aid that means the parents have assets. Quit being cheapskates and reward your kid's hard work.

"Only $140."

Yuk yuk. Yeah. They could buy three of my parents houses with that (at today's value).

[Anonymous]

It really depends on the field. A degree from Columbia is not going to impress anyone in my organization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Why do people exaggerate everything? Subtract cost of UVA and it's only $140k. And if Columbia gives zero aid that means the parents have assets. Quit being cheapskates and reward your kid's hard work.

This is a good way of looking at it. An extra 140k is worth investing in your child's future prospects imo.

Not if you don't have adequate retirement money. No way most kids could pay the debT AND support their parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Yup. It also means his parents can't help him for grad school. This kid will have seriously constrained options with debt like that. Columbia is a great school in a thousand ways, but not worth all that debt.

The whole setting up Jr for grad school is a stupid internet mom meme. A doctor or t14 lawyer can easily pay off their loans. A masters inc. MBA can be paid by employer.

Jr will get better job offers and into a better grad program if they have a more prestigious bachelors. That's how the world works.

[Anonymous]

If you're asked to pay the total cost of Columbia your family is well off. If the kid got into Columbia obviously they're very bright and motivated and warrant the INVESTMENT -- this isn't a slacker comparing Tailgate State and Pepperdine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of UVa versus Columbia, I'd definitely pick UVa. It is just as good a school. Why pay more for the same quality?

Same quality? Lol... right...

+1

It's absolutely not the same quality. While not Harvard, Columbia will still open a ton of doors esp. in the art, publishing, and journalism industries in NYC which are super competitive.

You can't get those kinds of connections at uva. UVA is so provincial compared to going to school in NYC where you'd have the opportunity to do unpaid internships basically anywhere in the city as long as you can pay travel costs.

If the family has to take loans to pay for the school, the kid is not going to be able to take unpaid internships. Art, publishing and journalism aren't good fields for someone with nearly $300k in student loan debt from undergrad.

Seriously, I can't thank of anything crazier than taking on 300k in debt and becoming an art major. Students have to learn to do a cost benefit analysis of their expected debt v. job prospects.

[Anonymous]

Depends on the degree and how well he is doing and enjoying going to Columbia. Old man and myself would move into a tiny paid-off condo and pay cash for his schooling. But again, it better be the best fit ever, good grades and who knows what else.
I wouldn't do it if we took $70k out in loans and paid interest. And this is only undergrad, lots to think about. They probably made the right decision for their family.

[Anonymous]

I would have said NO to Columbia before the application went in if paying full price was an impossibility, or I was going to be unwilling to pay and insist on UVA. I would have felt I hadn't done my job in a timely fashion, as a parent, if I hadn't come-to-terms with the financial question.

[Anonymous]

Look, if you want to retire a few years early or don't want to give up your vacations, fine. But call it what it is. Don't pretend UVA will offer the same lifelong opportunities as Columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Yup. It also means his parents can't help him for grad school. This kid will have seriously constrained options with debt like that. Columbia is a great school in a thousand ways, but not worth all that debt.

The whole setting up Jr for grad school is a stupid internet mom meme. A doctor or t14 lawyer can easily pay off their loans. A masters inc. MBA can be paid by employer.

Jr will get better job offers and into a better grad program if they have a more prestigious bachelors. That's how the world works.

Not a stupid internet mom meme - I wrote the comment and I actually know more about student debt than you can imagine (for professional reasons).

1) you don't get to be a tier 1 lawyer with middling grades, even out of Columbia and the median earnings out of law school are well-under $100k per year. 2) Yeah, sure. You might get your MBA paid for. But that's an MBA - most of them don't get their degrees from Harvard and you would be surprised how many are paying their own way. 3) What if your kid wants to be a pediatrician, or a bench scientist or a social worker? People outside of your cul-de-sac take out debt to do these things and struggle to repay it.

Betsy DeVos would like to repeal much of the current loan forgiveness, so don't count on that.

The rule of thumb is that you can safely borrow more or less your expected annual earnings a year or two out. Another interesting tidbit is that 90% of boys think they are above the median student, so many are overestimating what they can safely borrow.

Jr with great grades and internships will be better off with the Columbia degree, for sure, but half the kids graduate in the bottom half of the class, where none of that stuff is ultimately forthcoming.

And, if you think $140k (or whatever you think the math is) is small change, then you need to get out more. For all we know, this family has three kids behind this one... How does that $140 compare to this family's after tax income? Probably above it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

ok, so she gets that $35K/year job at The New Yorker, has a $1000 student loan payment to pay, NY rent to pay, etc. You don't see a problem with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

ok, so she gets that $35K/year job at The New Yorker, has a $1000 student loan payment to pay, NY rent to pay, etc. You don't see a problem with this?

Good point. Student loans actually need to be, you know, repaid. Exactly how is a student supposed to take a job in journalism, art, publishing, etc. in a high COL city if he or she has a high three or low four figure loan payment to make every month?

Think with your heads, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Yup. It also means his parents can't help him for grad school. This kid will have seriously constrained options with debt like that. Columbia is a great school in a thousand ways, but not worth all that debt.

The whole setting up Jr for grad school is a stupid internet mom meme. A doctor or t14 lawyer can easily pay off their loans. A masters inc. MBA can be paid by employer.

Jr will get better job offers and into a better grad program if they have a more prestigious bachelors. That's how the world works.

Not a stupid internet mom meme - I wrote the comment and I actually know more about student debt than you can imagine (for professional reasons).

1) you don't get to be a tier 1 lawyer with middling grades, even out of Columbia and the median earnings out of law school are well-under $100k per year. 2) Yeah, sure. You might get your MBA paid for. But that's an MBA - most of them don't get their degrees from Harvard and you would be surprised how many are paying their own way. 3) What if your kid wants to be a pediatrician, or a bench scientist or a social worker? People outside of your cul-de-sac take out debt to do these things and struggle to repay it.

You have a LOT more options coming from the bottom half of Columbia undergrad than from the bottom half of UVA. I got a top tier i-banking analyst program and had grades well into the bottom half of my class at HYP.

As for the "save it for grad school" trope, read the grad school admissions boards sometimes. It's a lot harder to get into a top tier MBA or PhD program when you're not coming from a top 10 undergrad school.