Middle class families - Are you willing to take on a ton of debt for a top college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why you should be saving up front, so you don't have to make these kinds of choices after your kid has worked their butt off all their life to get into the school of his or her dreams.

A middle class income may not easily allow for much college savings on top of paying off one's own student loans, mortgage, caring for elders, etc.

The first rule of savings is to pay yourself first.

Pay yourself first means saving for retirement, not your kids' college.

Why can't you do both? We have always done both. They are equally important. There is still no way with us saving we can do 70K for 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

Yes you will probably get an interview -- but you won't get hired bc they will realize you are the wrong kind of Columbia grad. Nothing personal, just not 'good fit', just like Silicon Valley startups can't hire minorities or women.

NP. This has not been my experience or my friends' experiences as regular middle class grads with Ivy League degrees. We all felt that the name on the diploma opened a surprising number of doors to us.

You either lack the degree or the people skills to charm and get your foot in the door. You sound bitter and resentful.

Maybe generational but all my classmates I knew from work study ended up on similar paths. I suspect your idea of 'middle class' is different than mine. I have advanced science degree and work in tech corridor. I am doing fine but didn't have opportunities I saw for well heeled classmates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

Seriously none of those New Yorker writers grew up middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

They're also for people who marry money. Who knows, perhaps that is this kid's plan. We don't know the gender, do we? Many beautiful women at Vogue are married to $$$$ finance guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

Seriously none of those New Yorker writers grew up middle class

Ariel Levy worked there, went to Wesleyan, and grew up UMC. She just wrote a memoir which included a description of her background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

Yes you will probably get an interview -- but you won't get hired bc they will realize you are the wrong kind of Columbia grad. Nothing personal, just not 'good fit', just like Silicon Valley startups can't hire minorities or women.

NP. This has not been my experience or my friends' experiences as regular middle class grads with Ivy League degrees. We all felt that the name on the diploma opened a surprising number of doors to us.

You either lack the degree or the people skills to charm and get your foot in the door. You sound bitter and resentful.

Maybe generational but all my classmates I knew from work study ended up on similar paths. I suspect your idea of 'middle class' is different than mine. I have advanced science degree and work in tech corridor. I am doing fine but didn't have opportunities I saw for well heeled classmates

NP. Like what? Are you one of those people who think $300-400k in DC is still middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

They're also for people who marry money. Who knows, perhaps that is this kid's plan. We don't know the gender, do we? Many beautiful women at Vogue are married to $$$$ finance guys.

Good point. If op daughter is hot $280k could be down payment on hedge fund husband

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why you should be saving up front, so you don't have to make these kinds of choices after your kid has worked their butt off all their life to get into the school of his or her dreams.

A middle class income may not easily allow for much college savings on top of paying off one's own student loans, mortgage, caring for elders, etc.

The first rule of savings is to pay yourself first.

Pay yourself first means saving for retirement, not your kids' college.

Why can't you do both? We have always done both. They are equally important. There is still no way with us saving we can do 70K for 4 years.

Expecting anyone other than the rich to spend $70K/year for college is madness.

I will make an exception for the children of parents who obsessively pressure their children into getting into an elite school. If you put your kids under that kind of intense pressure, than you probably owe it to them to pay big-time tuition.

Normal people should go to a school where your grades compare favorably enough that they will give you a ton of merit aid. If you have to pay $70K/year, this usually means that you barely qualified for admittance and you are only there to subsidize the tuition for the truly qualified students. That, of course, only applies to schools that provide merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

Seriously none of those New Yorker writers grew up middle class

Ariel Levy worked there, went to Wesleyan, and grew up UMC. She just wrote a memoir which included a description of her background.

. Upper. Not middle class

[Anonymous]

No. They're going to go to graduate school anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

Seriously none of those New Yorker writers grew up middle class

Ariel Levy worked there, went to Wesleyan, and grew up UMC. She just wrote a memoir which included a description of her background.

. Upper. Not middle class

What's the difference really? It's not like we're talking about the Kushners of the world who can buy their kid's way into Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Why do people exaggerate everything? Subtract cost of UVA and it's only $140k. And if Columbia gives zero aid that means the parents have assets. Quit being cheapskates and reward your kid's hard work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am really LOLing at all the VA boosters who think UVA is on par with Columbia.

Ask yourself this. If you had the money and the kid got into both schools, which would you recommend? Columbia is the kind of school that comes with a wealth of connections and opens doors to elite society in the Northeast.

UVA can't give you that except maybe in VA.

You have it backwards. People from elite backgrounds and a wealth of connections attend Columbia; they don't socialize with the kids on aid who have campus jobs and can't jet out to Killington every weekend or blow wads of money in NYC.

Well I disagree about but actually those weren't the connections I was referring to anyway. It's when you go to interview for an internship or entry level job and you get to talk to Columbia grads who would rather take a chance on you then on someone from another school. It's human nature.

You DO know that this same thing happens with grads from pretty much every school (when they encounter other alumni in the workforce), right? Obviously it's not in a similar realm academically, but my sister went to penn state and pretty much every career opportunity she's gotten there's been a penn state connection - penn state is a huge school with a proud, enthusiastic alumni base and they're kind of everywhere. Having that commonality is an easy discussion point. I'm not sure your argument makes any sense.

lol how many penn state grads are at The New Yorker? Maybe one? How many Columbia grads are at those kinds of magazines?

? Did I miss some indication that this kid is trying to work st the New Yorker?

It's one example of a super competitive, ultra elite field that would be easier to get into with a Columbia degree than one from UVA.

A very specific and low paying field. Those jobs are for people who already have money, not people trying to make some.

Seriously none of those New Yorker writers grew up middle class

Ariel Levy worked there, went to Wesleyan, and grew up UMC. She just wrote a memoir which included a description of her background.

. Upper. Not middle class

What's the difference really? It's not like we're talking about the Kushners of the world who can buy their kid's way into Harvard.

Enough of a difference to save up hundreds of thousands for college and retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Yup. It also means his parents can't help him for grad school. This kid will have seriously constrained options with debt like that. Columbia is a great school in a thousand ways, but not worth all that debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not pick columbia and the debt. I can't think of any real world benefit other than bragging rights because you think the name sounds more impressive

$280k debt can ruin your life.

Why do people exaggerate everything? Subtract cost of UVA and it's only $140k. And if Columbia gives zero aid that means the parents have assets. Quit being cheapskates and reward your kid's hard work.

"Only $140."