Why are HRCS so popular? Test scores stink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Yu Ying:

All students: 51% ELA/59% Math

3rd Grade: 31/46
4th Grade: 69/68
5th Grade: 69/73

What is going on with 3rd grade which is the current 4th?!?

By race grades 3-5:

White: 59/74
AA: 34/39
Two or more races: 71/78

It's always been the "don't care about Chinese, as much as we are just happy to be here" class. They've always been the laziest, least generous and least productive group. It's the bubble class. Everyone hates them, but they did help pay for the facility.

Though I dislike your phrasing, you are correct. This is the class that ruined the small-school feeling. The fact that they exist causes upheaval for all of the teachers and classrooms every single year. I'm very glad to have a great facility, but it has been a bitter pill to swallow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are these Title 1 schools that are doing better? Are there waitlists?

If you're talking about ECE yes. For example, Powell has 123 on the waiting list for PK3. Let's see if that changes next year or see the "great white flight" by 1st grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The test scores for MV, CMI, and IT. There are a number of DCPS Title I schools with huge populations of ELL and at-risk kids doing better. So why are these charters so popular?

Because there are a number of DCPS schools doing worse. MUCH WORSE. And their performance stinks so much, that parents are willing to cross the city to try better luck elsewhere.

The point is that there are actually DCPS schools that are much loathed on this site that are doing better than MV/CMI/IT. Yes BETTER. Just check some Title I schools and see for yourself. Sure, there are some that doing much worse. But, surprisingly, there are some that doing better. So if people are willing to cross the city for these so-called HRCS, why not save the gas money and go to the neighborhood school?

I know it's hard for you to wrap your mind around this, but many of us who understand education choose a specific modality. We aren't educating our children as if it's 1950 in cookie cutter classrooms where every kid is treated the same, no matter what they need. Do some research on educational practices. Try and keep up.

You say "specific modality" and "educational practices" and I hear yuppy trend.

Montessori, yuppie trend since 1901.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for one didn't expect the MV numbers to be above those of CMI and ITS.

MV only shows scores 3rd-5th, ITS includes 3-7th. Compare grade for grade.

You can't - all that's available on OSSE is 3rd and 4th for ITS. Must not be enough students in 5th-7th to report publicly.

CMI's scores are 10% higher if you don't include the special education students, fwiw.

Those students were the point of its original programming.

No. It was one of the 4 points of the original programming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because hrcs parents like to say they're not into test scores, man!

And then sneer and wring their hands at Powell/Bancroft/Tubman/Barnard et al. Because, I mean, have you seen the test scores? We're not into them, but pedagogy. Man. If you only educated yourself like I have, and learned how important these things are, you'd be doing Montessori unicorn immersion elvish with Larlito too.

Preach it sister. This is it. Test scores don't matter when your kids attend a hippy dippy charter school. Somehow it's an appropriate metric to gauge quality of neighborhood schools. Guess what, DCPS offers arts integration, montessori, dual language, you name it. These charter people who claim it's not the test scores, it's the programming options kill me. I don't see any of these same people enrolling their kids into Savoy or Langdon. Programming my ass.

What grade is your child in? Third or older? If you have a child in a title 1 school in 3rd, I'm happy to hear your opinion on this. If we are talking about a ECE kid...move along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are all public schools. They all agree to teach kids the Common Core standards. Charters have great flexibility in how they try to achieve that goal but that is the primary goal and the way they are measured. Not by how innovative or revolutionary they are. They are not private schools and have to show results.

By that measure a few promising schools clearly have some to do as their models are not working as well as they expected. That shouldn't distract from the fact that charters as a whole are outperforming DCPS schools and have closed the achievement gap a little. That's a big deal.

Only by selecting for their students (and counseling out the hardest cases back to DCPS). The power of charters is they make the public-side more accountable.

The general consensus among the charter intelligentsia is that charters should sit at 40% of students in DC - and no more - or else they themselves would have to be more accountable (in terms of accounting or the $'s, neighborhood preference, etc.)

The canard about selectivity and counseling out is not reflected in the data. in fact proportionally DC PCSs have more high needs students.

See the Cross sector task force materials - it is just most recent to show this.

Every year. EVERY YEAR like clockwork, around December, my children's classroom is assigned 1 or 2 kids coming in from KIPP. The child is disruptive and clearly not able to cope in an open setting. In a few cases they've been violent (in one case we're talking 6-year-old tossing chairs at other students and teacher). After 3-4 months of anguish, most of these kids are moved into Spec Ed for at least part of the day.

Charters know they don't have the resources. That's why the toughest, most expensive cases go back to neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are all public schools. They all agree to teach kids the Common Core standards. Charters have great flexibility in how they try to achieve that goal but that is the primary goal and the way they are measured. Not by how innovative or revolutionary they are. They are not private schools and have to show results.

By that measure a few promising schools clearly have some to do as their models are not working as well as they expected. That shouldn't distract from the fact that charters as a whole are outperforming DCPS schools and have closed the achievement gap a little. That's a big deal.

Only by selecting for their students (and counseling out the hardest cases back to DCPS). The power of charters is they make the public-side more accountable.

The general consensus among the charter intelligentsia is that charters should sit at 40% of students in DC - and no more - or else they themselves would have to be more accountable (in terms of accounting or the $'s, neighborhood preference, etc.)

The canard about selectivity and counseling out is not reflected in the data. in fact proportionally DC PCSs have more high needs students.

See the Cross sector task force materials - it is just most recent to show this.

Every year. EVERY YEAR like clockwork, around December, my children's classroom is assigned 1 or 2 kids coming in from KIPP. The child is disruptive and clearly not able to cope in an open setting. In a few cases they've been violent (in one case we're talking 6-year-old tossing chairs at other students and teacher). After 3-4 months of anguish, most of these kids are moved into Spec Ed for at least part of the day.

Charters know they don't have the resources. That's why the toughest, most expensive cases go back to neighborhood schools.

Yes. Imagine if charters received the same amount of funding as DCPS what amazing things they could do!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are all public schools. They all agree to teach kids the Common Core standards. Charters have great flexibility in how they try to achieve that goal but that is the primary goal and the way they are measured. Not by how innovative or revolutionary they are. They are not private schools and have to show results.

By that measure a few promising schools clearly have some to do as their models are not working as well as they expected. That shouldn't distract from the fact that charters as a whole are outperforming DCPS schools and have closed the achievement gap a little. That's a big deal.

Only by selecting for their students (and counseling out the hardest cases back to DCPS). The power of charters is they make the public-side more accountable.

The general consensus among the charter intelligentsia is that charters should sit at 40% of students in DC - and no more - or else they themselves would have to be more accountable (in terms of accounting or the $'s, neighborhood preference, etc.)

The canard about selectivity and counseling out is not reflected in the data. in fact proportionally DC PCSs have more high needs students.

See the Cross sector task force materials - it is just most recent to show this.

Every year. EVERY YEAR like clockwork, around December, my children's classroom is assigned 1 or 2 kids coming in from KIPP. The child is disruptive and clearly not able to cope in an open setting. In a few cases they've been violent (in one case we're talking 6-year-old tossing chairs at other students and teacher). After 3-4 months of anguish, most of these kids are moved into Spec Ed for at least part of the day.

Charters know they don't have the resources. That's why the toughest, most expensive cases go back to neighborhood schools.

See slide 9 in this deck. While that may be happening, most mid-year movement is from DCPS schools and at the high school level. Wards 7 and 8 have most transfers. http://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Meeting%206%20Slide%20Deck.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are all public schools. They all agree to teach kids the Common Core standards. Charters have great flexibility in how they try to achieve that goal but that is the primary goal and the way they are measured. Not by how innovative or revolutionary they are. They are not private schools and have to show results.

By that measure a few promising schools clearly have some to do as their models are not working as well as they expected. That shouldn't distract from the fact that charters as a whole are outperforming DCPS schools and have closed the achievement gap a little. That's a big deal.

Only by selecting for their students (and counseling out the hardest cases back to DCPS). The power of charters is they make the public-side more accountable.

The general consensus among the charter intelligentsia is that charters should sit at 40% of students in DC - and no more - or else they themselves would have to be more accountable (in terms of accounting or the $'s, neighborhood preference, etc.)

The canard about selectivity and counseling out is not reflected in the data. in fact proportionally DC PCSs have more high needs students.

See the Cross sector task force materials - it is just most recent to show this.

Every year. EVERY YEAR like clockwork, around December, my children's classroom is assigned 1 or 2 kids coming in from KIPP. The child is disruptive and clearly not able to cope in an open setting. In a few cases they've been violent (in one case we're talking 6-year-old tossing chairs at other students and teacher). After 3-4 months of anguish, most of these kids are moved into Spec Ed for at least part of the day.

Charters know they don't have the resources. That's why the toughest, most expensive cases go back to neighborhood schools.

See slide 9 in this deck. While that may be happening, most mid-year movement is from DCPS schools and at the high school level. Wards 7 and 8 have most transfers. http://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Meeting%206%20Slide%20Deck.pdf

From the report released a few days ago:
"More students transferred from public charter schools to DCPS schools midyear than vice versa. Of the students who switch sectors, the vast majority leave a public charter school to go to a DCPS school. DCPS schools gained 2 percent, or 890 students,in 2013-14, while public charter schools saw a net loss of 4 percent , or 1,330 students."

[Anonymous]

which report? can you provide a link please? thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:which report? can you provide a link please? thanks.

http://www.dcfpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/8.24.16Student-Mobility.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not inspired by ITS's scores, and I say that as a long time parent. 25/18 for AA kids may be better than the DC average, but it is awful. 62/62 for white kids is quite poor also, especially compared to WOTP white scores, e.g., 81/84 at Key.

I want my bright child challenged and lifted by a room full of smart kids. Sadly, it looks like I've been kidding myself about ITS.

You assume that your "bright child" is not being enriched based on test scores? You picked the wrong school if that's the metric you care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not inspired by ITS's scores, and I say that as a long time parent. 25/18 for AA kids may be better than the DC average, but it is awful. 62/62 for white kids is quite poor also, especially compared to WOTP white scores, e.g., 81/84 at Key.

I want my bright child challenged and lifted by a room full of smart kids. Sadly, it looks like I've been kidding myself about ITS.

You assume that your "bright child" is not being enriched based on test scores? You picked the wrong school if that's the metric you care about.

+1. also, being surrounded by a "room full of smart kids" is not exactly real life. in real life, some people have book smarts, some people do not. some people have common sense, some people do not. insulating your child so that they are surrounded by people just like them is not really doing them any favors in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not inspired by ITS's scores, and I say that as a long time parent. 25/18 for AA kids may be better than the DC average, but it is awful. 62/62 for white kids is quite poor also, especially compared to WOTP white scores, e.g., 81/84 at Key.

I want my bright child challenged and lifted by a room full of smart kids. Sadly, it looks like I've been kidding myself about ITS.

You assume that your "bright child" is not being enriched based on test scores? You picked the wrong school if that's the metric you care about.

I'm not the ITS mom, but be fair.

She believed that the school was hiring and training excellent teachers who would use best practices to teach children required content in engaging and innovative ways (hence the name "Inspired Teaching School").

But so far it doesn't look like the students are doing so well in demonstrating they have mastered the required content. She's got questions and is disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Yu Ying:

All students: 51% ELA/59% Math

3rd Grade: 31/46
4th Grade: 69/68
5th Grade: 69/73

What is going on with 3rd grade which is the current 4th?!?

By race grades 3-5:

White: 59/74
AA: 34/39
Two or more races: 71/78

It's always been the "don't care about Chinese, as much as we are just happy to be here" class. They've always been the laziest, least generous and least productive group. It's the bubble class. Everyone hates them, but they did help pay for the facility.

Though I dislike your phrasing, you are correct. This is the class that ruined the small-school feeling. The fact that they exist causes upheaval for all of the teachers and classrooms every single year. I'm very glad to have a great facility, but it has been a bitter pill to swallow.

What? One class has ruined the school? Please.