How does a 'safety" school turn into a highly regarded one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One of those reasons: JKLM (and Stoddert) parents squatting in EOTP schools until they get by-right entry to K. Let's just stop that.


Oh, you just stop that. You know full well that Ward 3 parents are a tiny fraction of the churn. The vast majority are EOTP parents who play the lottery again and again until they get into one of the few highly regarded schools, and if not, they move. Very few plan on staying at their IB school beyond PreK, unless it happens to be one of the few desirable ones.

+1

For one, we can afford to actually pay for one of our many excellent neighborhood nursery schools. I can't think of a single household in which the parents said, You know what? Let's drive from 39th and Fessenden over to Woodridge every day, twice a day, and then back to our jobs at Farragut North so we can save the $10K we'd spend on PS3.

It's quite a bit more than $10K/year to get the full-time preschool that public PK is, which makes it even more outrageous for the PP to suggest that the few families WOTP who may actually lottery for PK3 should be ineligible for doing so just because they have a guaranteed good option starting in K. Even so, you are right that they are so rare as to not have any impact on the "improvement" or lack thereof of EOTP schools, which is entirely driven by the lottery carousel in which most EOTP parents participate. The only WOTP family I have ever met who sent their kid to PK3 EOTP was at Appletree. I bet the actual data, if anyone has it, would support this anecdotal impression that it's a non-factor. It's a myth fueled by resentment against WOTP families.

No, at our EOTP DCPS, at least 10 of the 50-odd PK 4 students last year were IB for a WOTP school. Interestingly, some are staying for K for a variety of reasons: we are a dual language school, sibling preference for a younger child etc. It is getting harder to get in OOB for pre-k, so this issue will probably resolve itself soon enough.

Yes, this "issue", if you want to call it that, will resolve itself as soon as the IB parent community actually chooses the school and fills up the available spots. That is also when when schools in gentrifying neighborhoods will turn from "safeties" into "highly regarded ones". Until then, it is not the WOTP kids who are holding the school back in any way, because they can only enroll as long as there is no critical mass of parents committing to their IB school. While the school is waiting for that to happen, more higher-SES kids from WOTP will probably help matters more than they hurt them, if only by skewing the demographics IB gentrifiers tend to be so concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They won't propose PK3 because people like some of the PPs above will reject any solution that would allow for it...except MAYBE for doing massive and expensive renovations to the schools to make them bigger (but then they'll fight about swing space, renovation timelines, and the loss of playing fields).

The WOTP schools need to figure out what they want. If it's PK3, smaller boundaries would help. Ending OOB feeder rights would help (because fewer people would care about getting into Deal/Hardy feeders if it didn't guarantee them the right to go to those schools). Taking kids out of the smaller middle schools (F-S, Adams) and sending them to other middle schools (Shaw, MacFarland) would help. So would openness to a longer commute.

But the problem is that there aren't as many families with 0-2 year olds (the ones who care about PK3) as there are families with 3-12 year olds (the ones who care about elementary and middle school) and the parents of younger kids aren't as well organized--after all, most of them don't have kids at WOTP schools so they don't have much do to with the PTAs. So the folks who'd be willing to compromise in order to get PK3 in Ward 3 are always going to be outnumbered and outmaneuvered by the people who will fight tooth and nail to keep their kids in schools bound for Wilson.

The Ward 3 families who get truly angsty over free pk3 and, not coincidentally, trek across the park for their OOB free pk3 are overwhelmingly the apartment-dwelling families along Connecticut and Wisconsin avenues. The DCPS and PCS attendance maps linked upthread demonstrate this very clearly.

By definition, apartment renters are a more transient population of parents, as are most 1-bedroom condo owners. They're unlikely to get and hold the attention of OSSE on the "no walkable free ps3? not fair!!!" issue. They'll just be moving, anyway.

Meanwhile, although all rational people enjoy more money than less money in hand, the more-entrenched SFH owners in Ward 3 appear to be less interested in getting that free preschool. Don't take my word for it -- again, look that the attendance maps and compare to an overlay of housing types in the Ward. The "dots" showing attendance at Appletree and other ECEs line up very neatly with the big apartment buildings along the avenues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LMGTFY:

AppleTree is an innovative non-profit that develops and provides proven early childhood education programs to the most under-resourced three- and four-year-olds to close the achievement gap before children enter kindergarten.

http://www.appletreeinstitute.org/

Right, explaining why AppleTree LP is two-thirds white, and CH half white. I regret sending my child to AppleTree LP for two years, and serving as a parent rep on their board. The organization is run by a tyrant who rejects parental input. The bad outweighed the good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMGTFY:

AppleTree is an innovative non-profit that develops and provides proven early childhood education programs to the most under-resourced three- and four-year-olds to close the achievement gap before children enter kindergarten.

http://www.appletreeinstitute.org/

Right, explaining why AppleTree LP is two-thirds white, and CH half white. I regret sending my child to AppleTree LP for two years, and serving as a parent rep on their board. The organization is run by a tyrant who rejects parental input. The bad outweighed the good.

Not sure where you are getting those numbers. LP is 43% white, and CH 21%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMGTFY:

AppleTree is an innovative non-profit that develops and provides proven early childhood education programs to the most under-resourced three- and four-year-olds to close the achievement gap before children enter kindergarten.

http://www.appletreeinstitute.org/

Right, explaining why AppleTree LP is two-thirds white, and CH half white. I regret sending my child to AppleTree LP for two years, and serving as a parent rep on their board. The organization is run by a tyrant who rejects parental input. The bad outweighed the good.

Appletree is more than the schools they operate in DC. They now are licensing their curriculum to other schools in DC and other parts of the country. I know in DC that EL Haynes had adopted it, as have the City City PCS schools.

[Anonymous]

Appletree can't choose its students. They have to take who they get through the lottery. So if rich white families get in, that's their student body. They can try and open in neighborhoods that are poor or economically mixed, and/or near public transit, but what more do you want them to do? They can't have a preference for economically disadvantaged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Appletree can't choose its students. They have to take who they get through the lottery. So if rich white families get in, that's their student body. They can try and open in neighborhoods that are poor or economically mixed, and/or near public transit, but what more do you want them to do? They can't have a preference for economically disadvantaged kids.

I'm also guessing they wouldn't want to, since the presence of "rich white" kids is going to be beneficial to the economically disadvantaged kids. Don't studies show that lower performing kids learn better if mixed with higher performing kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having entire elementary classes "churn" by first grade helps no one. None of these schools will ever go anywhere if families don't invest in them.

It churns for a reason. Resolving those reasons is the answer. Lack of middle school options will usually be one of the main reasons.

One of those reasons: JKLM (and Stoddert) parents squatting in EOTP schools until they get by-right entry to K. Let's just stop that.

Oh, you just stop that. You know full well that Ward 3 parents are a tiny fraction of the churn. The vast majority are EOTP parents who play the lottery again and again until they get into one of the few highly regarded schools, and if not, they move. Very few plan on staying at their IB school beyond PreK, unless it happens to be one of the few desirable ones.

This. We live in a very desirable and popular EOTP neighborhood - largely expensive and popular because of young singles with lots of disposable income, easy metro access, attractive architecture, etc. The value of our home has exploded, but the quality of our local DCPS is stagnant. Nobody with means would send a child there if there is any other option on the table. In fact, when a few local families didn't get into an HRC such as ours, one chose to move to MD, and the other two chose to move WOTP.

Point being: WOTP families aren't encroaching on EOTP schools. They only come EOTP for school if they get into LAMB or YY. Meanwhile families with the same educational expectations either get into LAMB or YY (or a few others HRCs) or they move WOTP or leave the District entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appletree can't choose its students. They have to take who they get through the lottery. So if rich white families get in, that's their student body. They can try and open in neighborhoods that are poor or economically mixed, and/or near public transit, but what more do you want them to do? They can't have a preference for economically disadvantaged kids.

I'm also guessing they wouldn't want to, since the presence of "rich white" kids is going to be beneficial to the economically disadvantaged kids. Don't studies show that lower performing kids learn better if mixed with higher performing kids?

Stop guessing, then. Duh.

Anyone with a few brain cells to rub together knows that charter schools go where they can find a location they can afford, not where some random b*tcher on the intertubes thinks is convenient for her own sorry self. Meanwhile, it's not as if DC is following the law of providing facilities to charters and treating students in charters equitably.

Why do you spew your ignorance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having entire elementary classes "churn" by first grade helps no one. None of these schools will ever go anywhere if families don't invest in them.

It churns for a reason. Resolving those reasons is the answer. Lack of middle school options will usually be one of the main reasons.

One of those reasons: JKLM (and Stoddert) parents squatting in EOTP schools until they get by-right entry to K. Let's just stop that.

Oh, you just stop that. You know full well that Ward 3 parents are a tiny fraction of the churn. The vast majority are EOTP parents who play the lottery again and again until they get into one of the few highly regarded schools, and if not, they move. Very few plan on staying at their IB school beyond PreK, unless it happens to be one of the few desirable ones.

This. We live in a very desirable and popular EOTP neighborhood - largely expensive and popular because of young singles with lots of disposable income, easy metro access, attractive architecture, etc. The value of our home has exploded, but the quality of our local DCPS is stagnant. Nobody with means would send a child there if there is any other option on the table. In fact, when a few local families didn't get into an HRC such as ours, one chose to move to MD, and the other two chose to move WOTP.

Point being: WOTP families aren't encroaching on EOTP schools. They only come EOTP for school if they get into LAMB or YY. Meanwhile families with the same educational expectations either get into LAMB or YY (or a few others HRCs) or they move WOTP or leave the District entirely.

The gold medal for missing the point. The discussion is regarding PK3, which WOTP families absolutely travel for. I welcome them as I think having higher SES families outweighs any negative impact of churn, which is overstated anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Appletree can't choose its students. They have to take who they get through the lottery. So if rich white families get in, that's their student body. They can try and open in neighborhoods that are poor or economically mixed, and/or near public transit, but what more do you want them to do? They can't have a preference for economically disadvantaged kids.

I'm also guessing they wouldn't want to, since the presence of "rich white" kids is going to be beneficial to the economically disadvantaged kids. Don't studies show that lower performing kids learn better if mixed with higher performing kids?

Stop guessing, then. Duh.

Anyone with a few brain cells to rub together knows that charter schools go where they can find a location they can afford, not where some random b*tcher on the intertubes thinks is convenient for her own sorry self. Meanwhile, it's not as if DC is following the law of providing facilities to charters and treating students in charters equitably.

Why do you spew your ignorance?

What makes you so angry in life that you randomly lash out? The only point I was making is that Appletree has no interest in preventing higher SES families (whether from east or west of the park) from lotterying into their schools, because a school that is 100% low income is not going to be ideal for the low income population it is aiming to serve. Are you disputing this? Anything else that might have upset you was posted by others - I never asked for Appletree or any charter in my neighborhood. It's an anonymous forum with multiple posters, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll confess ignorance of Appletree's "mission." Is it something other than educating little kids? It isn't immersion/Montessori/Waldorf/Reggio/other . . . ?

Closing the achievement gap by providing high quality early education to disadvantaged children. http://www.appletreeinstitute.org/institute/appletree-institute-for-education-innovation/

Obviously they accept all who get in via the lottery but they are focused on other parts of the city than Ward 3.

So does most Charters who claim to serve disadvantage students, but end up in Ward 4 (e.g Breakthrough Montessori)

[Anonymous]

Ha ha a safety school gets into the "highly regarded" classification when the DCUM parents discover there is a 100+ waiting list for OOB even if the school has dismal test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMGTFY:

AppleTree is an innovative non-profit that develops and provides proven early childhood education programs to the most under-resourced three- and four-year-olds to close the achievement gap before children enter kindergarten.

http://www.appletreeinstitute.org/

Right, explaining why AppleTree LP is two-thirds white, and CH half white. I regret sending my child to AppleTree LP for two years, and serving as a parent rep on their board. The organization is run by a tyrant who rejects parental input. The bad outweighed the good.

Appletree is more than the schools they operate in DC. They now are licensing their curriculum to other schools in DC and other parts of the country. I know in DC that EL Haynes had adopted it, as have the City City PCS schools.

Perry Street Prep as well.