So angry... Can any lawyer comment on this job loss debacle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are unbelievable. The agreement she signed wasn't just a confidentiality or non disparagement agreement, I'll bet all the money in my wallet it was also a release. Why? Because no employer pays 2 months severance on a tenure of 2 years without getting a release. So all this talk of "this is deeply disturbing" and bickering over whether this is discriminatory in the UK just doesn't matter. Consult a lawyer if you want, to be sure, but she's going to tell you that any claims have been released. Game over.

you're right. The OP's post does say the document she signed said she would not take any legal action.

The release won't prevent her from suing. It will be evidence against her, and she will probably have to give back the severance money if they counter sue, but if she actually has a case it won't matter. Not saying she should, but it's not like signing a release bara you from filing a complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are unbelievable. The agreement she signed wasn't just a confidentiality or non disparagement agreement, I'll bet all the money in my wallet it was also a release. Why? Because no employer pays 2 months severance on a tenure of 2 years without getting a release. So all this talk of "this is deeply disturbing" and bickering over whether this is discriminatory in the UK just doesn't matter. Consult a lawyer if you want, to be sure, but she's going to tell you that any claims have been released. Game over.

you're right. The OP's post does say the document she signed said she would not take any legal action.

The release won't prevent her from suing. It will be evidence against her, and she will probably have to give back the severance money if they counter sue, but if she actually has a case it won't matter. Not saying she should, but it's not like signing a release bara you from filing a complaint.

Bars* you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people are unbelievable. The agreement she signed wasn't just a confidentiality or non disparagement agreement, I'll bet all the money in my wallet it was also a release. Why? Because no employer pays 2 months severance on a tenure of 2 years without getting a release. So all this talk of "this is deeply disturbing" and bickering over whether this is discriminatory in the UK just doesn't matter. Consult a lawyer if you want, to be sure, but she's going to tell you that any claims have been released. Game over.

Well, yes, I think that is the point we are all making, that she should *not* have signed the agreement without understanding what it was and clarifying why she was being fired.

I'm sorry, but if someone fired me and could only give me the weird reason her boss gave her and I had excellent performance evaluations for two years, I would be wary of signing any agreement without trying to get a better understanding of WTH was going on.

I think that is what OP's niece should learn.

The PP who said they'd only give dates of employment as a reference, we don't know that because we don't know what OP's niece signed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are unbelievable. The agreement she signed wasn't just a confidentiality or non disparagement agreement, I'll bet all the money in my wallet it was also a release. Why? Because no employer pays 2 months severance on a tenure of 2 years without getting a release. So all this talk of "this is deeply disturbing" and bickering over whether this is discriminatory in the UK just doesn't matter. Consult a lawyer if you want, to be sure, but she's going to tell you that any claims have been released. Game over.

Well, yes, I think that is the point we are all making, that she should *not* have signed the agreement without understanding what it was and clarifying why she was being fired.

I'm sorry, but if someone fired me and could only give me the weird reason her boss gave her and I had excellent performance evaluations for two years, I would be wary of signing any agreement without trying to get a better understanding of WTH was going on.

I think that is what OP's niece should learn.

The PP who said they'd only give dates of employment as a reference, we don't know that because we don't know what OP's niece signed.

I assume the niece in question has a dad or a mom to help in cases like this? Sounds quite random that an uncle in a different country is trying to handle this via DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I handle a lot of employment law and do not see a case here. It sounds like your niece wasn't a good fit, which is a perfectly acceptable reason to terminate someone.

Based just on a brief description of the event in the OP's post? I'd never hire you as my lawyer.

Another lawyer here and I agree with my legal colleague. Niece is best to move on and find another job.

[Anonymous]

She's lucky she got offered 2 months severance, IMO.

[Anonymous]

You should also advise her to carefully examine her health insurance coverage options going forward. Accutane can be very expensive if your insurance isn't willing to cover most of the cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are unbelievable. The agreement she signed wasn't just a confidentiality or non disparagement agreement, I'll bet all the money in my wallet it was also a release. Why? Because no employer pays 2 months severance on a tenure of 2 years without getting a release. So all this talk of "this is deeply disturbing" and bickering over whether this is discriminatory in the UK just doesn't matter. Consult a lawyer if you want, to be sure, but she's going to tell you that any claims have been released. Game over.

Well, yes, I think that is the point we are all making, that she should *not* have signed the agreement without understanding what it was and clarifying why she was being fired.

I'm sorry, but if someone fired me and could only give me the weird reason her boss gave her and I had excellent performance evaluations for two years, I would be wary of signing any agreement without trying to get a better understanding of WTH was going on.

I think that is what OP's niece should learn.

The PP who said they'd only give dates of employment as a reference, we don't know that because we don't know what OP's niece signed.

I assume the niece in question has a dad or a mom to help in cases like this? Sounds quite random that an uncle in a different country is trying to handle this via DCUM.

Your assumption is wrong, which could have been avoided by reading the initial post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will fly her out to stay with me for a while to calm down.

She is really upset about the "face doesn't fit" comment because she suffers from severe acne (just started Accutane recently), and is very self-conscious about it. She seems to think that they fired her literally because of her face. She once overheard the two women who were unkind to her talking about her skin, and now she's convinced that she was fired because she is "too ugly" and "no one wants to look at a face like mine." It is probably good that I am in a different country because I would like to go find her supervisor and slap him. The poor kid. I wish they had just told her a reason, or at least not said anything about a "face" at all.

I find that comment to be deeply, deeply disturbing and potentially discriminatory[b]. Consult an employment lawyer. Not sure what the effect of whatever it is that she signed would be, though. Lawyer up.

Having bad skin or being ugly does not put you in a protect class.

[Anonymous]

I'm always confused about why people get so hung up about their rights as an employee at termination of employment, when it sounds as though they've been fairly treated.

An employment contract or agreement is not binding for life. Much like you can resign at any time, your employer can terminate your employment at any time, "without cause", provided they give you adequate notice and/or financial compensation in lieu of adequate notice. Termination with cause is generally cheaper for the employer, but takes longer and often can actually drain more financial resources.

Wrongful dismissal is when your employment is terminated specifically because of one of the protected concerns, or if employment is terminated with a lack of adequate documentation (if termination is "for cause") or without adequate notice/ financial compensation (for "without cause"). Obviously, this becomes a little more complicated with long tenured employees as the amount of fair severance increases.

The release that OPs niece signed is pretty standard, and probably also included agreements not to post or discuss the company or her termination on social media, etc. In general, there is extra severance/compensation that goes along with signing this, but in general, she was likely offered the fair amount at the start, and an extra amount for signing the agreement.

As she is fairly new, young, educated, (ie. Will likely not experience undue hardship in finding another job in her field compared to other candidates), she doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on if she's seeking more. Sounds like the financial package offered was more than fair.

[Anonymous]

This is not a debacle. She lost a job. She needs to move on. Why must everything be litigated?

[Anonymous]

She's 24 years old-- she will find a new job and move on. She'll probably find a much better job, one where her colleagues aren't cruel to her and where her boss is less of a tool. It's hard to imagine the incompetence of a manager who would fire someone in such a poor manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. Thanks for the replies. Is it normal for the supervisor to refuse to tell her why she was fired?

If you tell them why, then that opens it up for debate and lawsuits.

How long had she been there? In many states, even a "protected class" can be fired in the first X months for no reason at all.

This post is completely backward. First, if the employer refuses to tell an employee why s/he is being fired, THAT actually opens the company up to a lawsuit because the termination looks like pretext.

Your second statement also is wrong. It isn't the case anywhere that someone in a "protected" class cannot be fired. The reverse is true - an employer cannot fire, refuse to hire or take adverse action against someone BECAUSE OF their protected class. This is true at all times, not just after a probationary period expires.

OP, this sounds like a very upsetting situation, but signing the contract and taking 2 months of pay was probably the best outcome here.

[Anonymous]

OP you're a kind person and your cousin is lucky to have you. Sort of off topic but about her struggle with skin problems, I've totally been there and it affected my life for way too long. Accurate may be life-changing for her so if that works, great. I finally had success with Smoothbeam laser treatments (I think they may also be called fraxel or v-beam treatments). Hurt like a mothereffer but it was the only thing that permanently cleared my skin and changed my self esteem. Good luck and thanks for being such a great support system for your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you're a kind person and your cousin is lucky to have you. Sort of off topic but about her struggle with skin problems, I've totally been there and it affected my life for way too long. Accurate may be life-changing for her so if that works, great. I finally had success with Smoothbeam laser treatments (I think they may also be called fraxel or v-beam treatments). Hurt like a mothereffer but it was the only thing that permanently cleared my skin and changed my self esteem. Good luck and thanks for being such a great support system for your family.

+1. Also, Accutane was life-changing for me. I have a history of depression so was advised to avoid it and given endless topical creams and gels. I finally got a new dermatologist who basically said "if you don't go on accutane you are going to have a face full of scars." I went on it, had no problems at all (except really dry lips, which were temporary) and my skin has been 90% clear for the last ten years. I'm so thankful I went to that derm - I only wish I had done it sooner. There was no need for me to have suffered for years!