Mount Vernon?

[Anonymous]

West Springfield is a straight shot up Rolling Road from Saratoga, whereas it takes a convoluted route on busy roads to reach Lee. The drive to Lee can easily be 30
minutes longer when you factor in traffic jams on 95 or one of the parkways.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a school closer to Lake Braddock could be moved to accommodate Saratoga? Or perhaps Saratoga should be moved to South County, which is also in the Mt. Vernon district- so that would make sense for voting representation. I think Saratoga voters are trying to garner attention to the fact that the current system is broken. Saratoga doesn't really belong at Lee because Lee is not their "neighborhood" school, but it's up to FCPS to figure out who does. It's going to have a domino effect, but it needs to occur. A lot of issues were never resolved during the South County HS opening.

Well, that won't happen. The Lake Braddock neighborhoods closer to Lee have a close association with the Burke area.

I don't see any compelling reason to move Saratoga out of Lee, and I would be extremely surprised to see any significant support on the School Board for doing so. Just because you've discovered you're zoned for a school with comparatively poor test scores doesn't mean the system is broken.

No the PP, but I didn't "suddenly discover" anything. I knew exactly what I was getting when I bought my home in Saratoga several years ago. That doesn't change the fact that kids in the Saratoga neighborhood have to cross the FFX County Pkwy, the Franconia-Springfield Pkwy, and Interstate 95 to attend the MS and HS to which they're zoned when there are multiple MS and HS's closer to them or the fact that they neighborhood is represented by elected officials that do not represent the rest of the Lee HS pyramid (with the exception of State Delegate Vivian Watts, I believe). Personally, I don't think Key and Lee are as bad as a lot of people make them out to be and I wouldn't be afraid to send my kids there in the least, but I wouldn't mind better representation of my neighborhood's interests than I currently have.

Drive time wise, it is not much different for them to go to Lee vs West Springfield. It is not as if there is a 30 minute difference in commute between the two.

But these kids have to cross a major road! On foot! In bare feet! Up hill in the snow! I'm not in this part of the county, so maybe I'm just missing something. But I do have a kid crossing Fairfax county parkway for school, and don't see the issue. It sounds like Saratoga parents did the equivalent of buying the biggest house in the neighborhood and regret it? That is, that Saratoga is the wealthiest neighborhood feeding to Lee? I'm not sure why this warrants rezoning. They had to know at the time that they were buying into, well, Lee. So now, send your kids there or go private with the money you saved. Why is this not the obvious answer?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why is it that none of the elementary schools that feed into West Springfield are Title 1, whereas all but one (the AAP center) of the elementary schools that feed into Lee High School are Title 1? If that's not discriminatory, I don't know what is.

Both the Lee and West Springfield boundaries are relatively compact, and on their face they don't look obviously gerrymandered to create an affluent school and a poor school. But Lee is near the older part of Springfield, with lots of garden apartments and small homes built in the 1950s, whereas most of the housing in the West Springfield district was built later and commands a higher price. You could swap some of the WS and Lee feeders to promote greater SES balance, but you'd have checker-board attendance areas and students with longer trips to school.

Totally disagree. Just look at the Saratoga area. It has been totally gerrymandered. It is part of the Lee HS pyramid, the Mount Vernon supervisor/school board district, and in a different Congressional district that those directly across Pohick Creek. Both West Springfield and South County are closer than Lee HS, not to mention that kids in that neighborhood have to cross two parkways and an interstate to reach the MS and HS they're zoned for. What's happened in Saratoga is the middle class and affluent families that live there use private school or pupil place to other schools and, as a result, even Saratoga ES has suffered. Perfect example of a neighborhood that is relatively middle class and affluent, but for which the the politicians have gerrymandered into districts that don't benefit them - what happens? The middle class flees.

Lee has been a comparatively low-performing school for a long time. That impacts the prices in places like Saratoga. I don't understand why someone buys a lower-priced house and then expects to get redistricted to a school that will boost their home equity overnight. There are lots of areas all over the county where kids don't attend the high schools closest to their houses.

Who said anyone expects that? Just making he point that the Saratoga neighborhood has clearly been gerrymandered. And, so be it. That's life, and, certainly anyone doing their homework before buying there will realize it.

There is a parent or parents up thread saying that this area shouldn't have to wait for economic development policies that could take ten years to have an impact. And that politicians who vote for the status quo should be voted out. I can sympathize. But, we paid a lot more for a lot less house a lot further out that were solidly zoned for good schools. I do not agree with parents who want to buy in the biggest house they can in the least expensive school zone, and then act like FCPS should rezone them. They should have know where they were buying. If they didn't want Lee or Mount Vernon, they should have paid more, or bought less house elsewhere. Everyone in the DC metro area has to make a cost/ location/ size/ schools housing trade off.

Well, you can't fault people for advocating for their interests. And, you don't really get that much of a discount on a house buying in the Saratoga are over a similar home north of the FFX Count Pkwy in the West Springfield HS - maybe $50k. Not to mention the fact that the school board has brought this on themselves with recent rezoning of the Daventry neighborhood from Lee to West Springfield. Yes, I know that was a split feeder situation, but it doesn't exactly help Lee. If you're in Saratoga, why can't you have the same?

You get a HUGE discount for buying a house in Saratoga vs a house feeding into Orange Hunt, Hunt Valley or West Springfield. It is almost $100K less to buy in Saratoga compared to buying a similar but older house that feeds into one of the WSHS elementaries.

The houses are so much cheaper, so to buy for so much less then complain about school zoning is a bit silly.

Well, that wasn't my experience in 2013 when I bought my house - a $50k difference, yet. A $100k difference? I don't think so. YMMV.

$100K

Our 1971 colonial feeding into WSHS was over $600K 3 years ago. Slightly larger colonials built in the 80s-90s in Saratoga were $80-100K less, in the low $500s.

It is much, much cheaper to buy a similarly aged & size house in Saratoga than it is for the West Springfield feeder elementaries.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The entire Saratoga subdivision was built in the 1970s. There are very few SFHs zoned for Saratoga ES that were not built in the 1970s. Beyond that, let me give you a current, real world example of 2 homes that are fairly comparable but have $55k list price difference.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7925-Saint-George-Ct_Springfield_VA_22153_M60498-38253
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/6719-Bellamy-Ave_Springfield_VA_22152_M52520-30430

[Anonymous]

So many families in Mt Vernon wiggle their way into West Potomac but it starts in elementary school. If families would quit trying to game the system, both the Mt Vernon and West Potomac pyramids would be stronger. West Potomac pyramid schools are overcrowded in large part due to families not staying in their pyramid.

[Anonymous]

PP whats your point? The one in the "better" district is less expensive. That said Saratoga does seem like a nice neighborhood with so-so secondary options.

Looking at it on the map though I can see why folks would want to be districted to South County. That looks closer than Lee.

[Anonymous]

I would be interested to know what the average White & Asian non-FARMS SAT scores are in Mt.Vernon & Lee vs west Springfield and West Potomac. Similar, or a significant gap?

[Anonymous]

Saratoga has nice homes on big wooded lots. Much of the housing stock is 10-20 years newer than much of the housing stock that feeds into the West Springfield HS feeder elementaries. The Saratoga housing is generally nicer than much of the housing in the area. It is newer and more updated (in general). It is also much, much cheaper than houses that feed into WSHS.

For example, for the mid to low $500s, you can get a nice, spacious updated 1980s-1990s colonial with a garage on a wooded lot that feeds into Saratoga.

For the same price, you can get a small ranch or split level with a carport built between 1968-1972 and updated in the 80s or 90s that feeds into Hunt Valley or Orange Hunt.

To buy an equivalent colonial that you would get for the mid 500s in Saratoga, you would have to spend between $630-690 in an Orange Hunt or Hunt Valley neighborhood. It would still be built almost a decade or more earlier than the Saratoga homes.

The house that feed into Saratoga take much longer to sell than the houses that feed into the WSHS feeders.
Saratoga IS divided by an industrial area from Lee HS, and neighborhoods from WSHS, but the mileage or time difference is really not that significant.

But tye housing cost and what kind of house you get for the money definitely is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be interested to know what the average White & Asian non-FARMS SAT scores are in Mt.Vernon & Lee vs west Springfield and West Potomac. Similar, or a significant gap?

Significant.

[Anonymous]

Lee is under-enrolled. The last thing FCPS needs to be doing now is thinking about ways to pull more kids from single-family neighborhoods out of it.

People in Saratoga can huff and puff but they aren't getting moved to South County or West Springfield without someone else being moved into Lee, and whoever that would be almost surely paid more so they could live in a higher rated district.

I don't know if you've spent any time with Elizabeth Schultz, but I find it very, very difficult to see her willingly sending any of her Springfield District constituents off to Lee.

[Anonymous]

$579K feeding into Saratoga:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7771-Tangier-Dr-Springfield-VA-22153/51967347_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Similar home feeding into Sangster

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9205-Northedge-Dr-Springfield-VA-22153/51962962_zpid/

[Anonymous]

What you get for a similar price feeding into Hunt Valley:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8606-Westmeath-Ct-Springfield-VA-22152/51939240_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Anyone saying you can get a 1980s/1990s SFH in the Saratoga ES zone doesn't know what you're talking about. Sorry. Almost all of the SFH housing stock zoned for Saratoga ES was built in the 1970s and much of it goes for prices above $500k. I don't deny that you get a discount for buying in Saratoga over a comparable home in the WSHS pyramid, but these claims that you can get a house for $100k less that is 20 years newer are ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be interested to know what the average White & Asian non-FARMS SAT scores are in Mt.Vernon & Lee vs west Springfield and West Potomac. Similar, or a significant gap?

Significant.

Interesting. What are Lee and Mt. Vernon doing wrong? I will say I love the IB option. In fact I have a kid who just decided to pupil place for IB next year. But to really take advantage of it, you need a certain type of student. Good writer. Self directed. Able to handle high level course work across all subject areas. Willing to deal with the extras that go with the full diploma. DC2 will almost certainly not pupil place for IB in a couple years because she is a pure STEM kid and hates to write. I think FCPS probably meant well, but did schools like Mt. Vernon, Lee & Stuart a disservice by putting IB there. Ideally, IB should be an open enrollment opt in only magnet program at 2-3 high schools. For example, just SLHS, Marshall and Robinson, which seem to be making it work. And transportation should be provided, like for TJ. Saying Lee kids have an AP option is BS if they can't work out the transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be interested to know what the average White & Asian non-FARMS SAT scores are in Mt.Vernon & Lee vs west Springfield and West Potomac. Similar, or a significant gap?

Significant.

FWIW, on average over the past three years, white kids at West Potomac score slightly higher than white kids at West Springfield.