One compelling reason centers need to go

[Anonymous]

What resources? If 22 former AAP students were forced back into your neighborhood school, the only resource they'd bring with them is another teacher. How do you think your child would benefit from increased enrollment at the neighborhood school? If you are imagining the differences in academic achievement between children would be less noticeable when they're all in the same building, you've got a wild imagination.

Just read a little of this thread. Where is the logic in this statement? Another teacher is a decent resource. It would eliminate some of the inequities in schools with centers where principals have to divvy up teachers and the numbers don't come out right. And, it might surprise you to know that some schools are presently overcrowded because centers are assigned to them--bringing trailers with them.

As far as academic achievement, do you really think there is that much difference between the top kid in GenEd and the bottom in AAP. FWIW, I'd be willing to bet that the top kid in Gen Ed is above the bottom kid in AAP. Now, that would be an interesting study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Hunters Woods in 6th grade?



There is no other Center elementary school with such disproportionate numbers, according to FCPS Dashboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'n still not clear on this, how exactly does closing centers benefit the AAP students?

I have heard, for SO long, about how the AAP kids "need" this or that, and what can be done to foster their "peer groups," etc. etc., ad nauseum, that at this point I am not at all concerned about what will and will not benefit them. Truly. What I am concerned about, is what kind of education my own children - not in AAP - will receive from here on out.

If FCPS decides, once again, that the focus needs to continue to be on this one group of kids, then I think it's probably time for my family to move to a county in which the educations of all kids are valued.

Wish I could hold on an iPhone. "all that I am concerned about is the education my own children will receive" so I plan to move to a county that values the education "of all kids". Umm... Internally inconsistent logic much? So basically, you are saying, "I believe in high quality education for everyone, except you. F**k you."

[Anonymous]

Amazing how much hostility there is toward AAP, though I wonder just how many different people are posting these anti-AAP comments. Most likely it's the same one or two people that hang out here all day and bash AAP.

Most people could care less is my guess. The whole AAP thing is kind of irrelevant anyways after 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazing how much hostility there is toward AAP, though I wonder just how many different people are posting these anti-AAP comments. Most likely it's the same one or two people that hang out here all day and bash AAP. Most people could care less is my guess. The whole AAP thing is kind of irrelevant anyways after 6th grade.

I can see that.. though I have two kids in the AAP system in a center that was just not (as a DCUM cliche) THRIVING at the very well established local level IV. It was great they had more peers at the center and so much more like science olympiad that engaged them. I know I will get haters (or even more)- but our local level IV was just so highly rated but we (2 kids) just experienced otherwise that we as parents sent them to the center. We are actively trying to move to a center school (same place where our kids go to now).

[Anonymous]

Can we at least let gifted kids go to a center with an AAP class if they don't have enough gifted kids at their base school to make up a level IV class?

If you just dump everyone back in their base school, you're punishing certain kids, and you may not care, but they're the ones more likely of color or of lower income levels, coming from Title I schools. These are the kids who blossom in an AAP center classroom.

In my neighborhood, people sit smoking on their front steps with their pit bulls. Their kids do not tend to have high academic performance. But some of us do have gifted kids and the centers are our way out. This is perhaps a part of Fairfax you don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Hunters Woods in 6th grade?



There is no other Center elementary school with such disproportionate numbers, according to FCPS Dashboard.

Isn't this the case for Colvin Run and Haycock 6th grade classes? It's the Vienna, McLean, Great Falls parts of Fairfax that need to eliminate centers and move toward Local Level IV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we at least let gifted kids go to a center with an AAP class if they don't have enough gifted kids at their base school to make up a level IV class?

If you just dump everyone back in their base school, you're punishing certain kids, and you may not care, but they're the ones more likely of color or of lower income levels, coming from Title I schools. These are the kids who blossom in an AAP center classroom.

In my neighborhood, people sit smoking on their front steps with their pit bulls. Their kids do not tend to have high academic performance. But some of us do have gifted kids and the centers are our way out. This is perhaps a part of Fairfax you don't know.

Great point. Really would have more of an impact on gifted kids from lower performing schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What resources? If 22 former AAP students were forced back into your neighborhood school, the only resource they'd bring with them is another teacher. How do you think your child would benefit from increased enrollment at the neighborhood school? If you are imagining the differences in academic achievement between children would be less noticeable when they're all in the same building, you've got a wild imagination.

As for the complaint that curriculum for advanced kids gets all the attention, this is simply not true. Staff have determined which materials, etc are appropriate for general education students already. That decision won't change just because your school becomes more crowded and there are some advanced kids in a classroom down the hall.

You are motivated by pure envy - not by wanting what is best for children - your own or your neighbor's.

Envy of what? I have two children in AAP. So take your assumptions and your frantic desperation to keep your kid in a center elsewhere.

And we have a winner!

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Colvin Run. And you're right, the situation isn't the norm - nor should it be. It's outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'n still not clear on this, how exactly does closing centers benefit the AAP students?

I have heard, for SO long, about how the AAP kids "need" this or that, and what can be done to foster their "peer groups," etc. etc., ad nauseum, that at this point I am not at all concerned about what will and will not benefit them. Truly. What I am concerned about, is what kind of education my own children - not in AAP - will receive from here on out.

If FCPS decides, once again, that the focus needs to continue to be on this one group of kids, then I think it's probably time for my family to move to a county in which the educations of all kids are valued.

Wish I could hold on an iPhone. "all that I am concerned about is the education my own children will receive" so I plan to move to a county that values the education "of all kids". Umm... Internally inconsistent logic much? So basically, you are saying, "I believe in high quality education for everyone, except you. F**k you."

No, I believe in high quality education for all kids, and am fed up with the focus being only on AAP kids. You seem to have a hard time comprehending that it's not all about you or your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we at least let gifted kids go to a center with an AAP class if they don't have enough gifted kids at their base school to make up a level IV class?

If you just dump everyone back in their base school, you're punishing certain kids, and you may not care, but they're the ones more likely of color or of lower income levels, coming from Title I schools. These are the kids who blossom in an AAP center classroom.

In my neighborhood, people sit smoking on their front steps with their pit bulls. Their kids do not tend to have high academic performance. But some of us do have gifted kids and the centers are our way out. This is perhaps a part of Fairfax you don't know.

And what part of Fairfax is this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Hunters Woods in 6th grade?



There is no other Center elementary school with such disproportionate numbers, according to FCPS Dashboard.

Isn't this the case for Colvin Run and Haycock 6th grade classes? It's the Vienna, McLean, Great Falls parts of Fairfax that need to eliminate centers and move toward Local Level IV.

Yes, this is absolutely the case for those schools and areas. Huge numbers of AAP kids and AAP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't answer my questions.
What resources?
How would general education students benefit from having advanced students down the hall rather than in another buildong?

Oh - here's a few more:

How much would redrawing boundaries to adjust for moving students back to their neighborhoods cost?
Do parents advocating for this change realize it might require moving their children to different schools?

I'm not the PP, but I think most Level IV programs are run where the high performing GE students can push into the classes. Bringing back the Level IV students would provide a peer group for the high performing GE students. The curriculm would be more of a continuum, less of a divide between GE and AAP, and more like how high schools are run.

Moving the Level IV students out of the centers would also add balance to the centers. Many schools have issues with the AAP vs. GE divide. Whether actual or perceived, GE students feel like they are less smart than AAP. My GE kid told me he used to think he was smart until he found out he wasn't in AAP. We have to actively work on his academic self-esteem. Since five classes in his grade are AAP and only two are GE, it can be difficult to get him to understand he is still smart.

YES to the PP above. I also have a GE child who has five AAP classes in her grade and only two GE. You could be talking about her. The dynamics at these centers are horrendous for the GE kids, who feel that since they're in the only remaining GE classes, they must be "dumb". Nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling a child this when all they see are their peers in multiple AAP classes. If we had known just how bad sending our GE child to a center was going to be, we would have moved long ago. We would be thrilled to send her to a "normal" school, without all of this foolish AAP divisiveness.

These 2 PPs pretty clearly are the same person or go to the same school. 7 classes, 5 of which are AAP is 200 kids, 140 of whom are AAP. Except for the 6th grade (or 5th and 6th?) at GBW (which was realigned), is there another FCPS ES with those demographics? Because the situation described is not the norm.

Hunters Woods in 6th grade?



There is no other Center elementary school with such disproportionate numbers, according to FCPS Dashboard.

Isn't this the case for Colvin Run and Haycock 6th grade classes? It's the Vienna, McLean, Great Falls parts of Fairfax that need to eliminate centers and move toward Local Level IV.

Yes, this is absolutely the case for those schools and areas. Huge numbers of AAP kids and AAP classes.

Not the case recently for Colvin Run.