Proof of why URMs do NOT want SES-based affirmative action to take place of race-based policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huh. I have NEVER seen anyone say that admission should be based off test scores and grades. Admissions SHOULD be holistic.

Race just shouldn't be a factor.

The PP was correct though; it's not an easy answer. I can see the benefits to having different viewpoints/outlooks/experiences at a college. It's going to be a better learning experience than if everybody comes from the same backgrounds. The real rub come in when these holistic factors are used to bring in candidates whose objective qualifications are massively lower than the average student at an institution. I think I read that the average black AA candidate at a top schools have SAT scores about 200-300 points lower (out of 1600) than the average white student. That's a massive difference that creates a toxic environment IMO. If these holistic reviews generally produced candidates whose credentials more closely matched that of the average student this friction would go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. I have NEVER seen anyone say that admission should be based off test scores and grades. Admissions SHOULD be holistic.

Race just shouldn't be a factor.

The PP was correct though; it's not an easy answer. I can see the benefits to having different viewpoints/outlooks/experiences at a college. It's going to be a better learning experience than if everybody comes from the same backgrounds. The real rub come in when these holistic factors are used to bring in candidates whose objective qualifications are massively lower than the average student at an institution. I think I read that the average black AA candidate at a top schools have SAT scores about 200-300 points lower (out of 1600) than the average white student. That's a massive difference that creates a toxic environment IMO. If these holistic reviews generally produced candidates whose credentials more closely matched that of the average student this friction would go away.

This is why I argue in favor of SES-based affirmative action, if there is to be AA at all - to bring diverse viewpoints and backgrounds to the table. I suppose if your opinion is that diversity merely equals kids with different skin colors, then this is not something you'd agree with, but personally, I think a child from rural Iowa or West Virginia or an Asian immigrant brings FAR more to the table in terms of background than the black child of two lawyers from NWDC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. I have NEVER seen anyone say that admission should be based off test scores and grades. Admissions SHOULD be holistic.

Race just shouldn't be a factor.

The PP was correct though; it's not an easy answer. I can see the benefits to having different viewpoints/outlooks/experiences at a college. It's going to be a better learning experience than if everybody comes from the same backgrounds. The real rub come in when these holistic factors are used to bring in candidates whose objective qualifications are massively lower than the average student at an institution. I think I read that the average black AA candidate at a top schools have SAT scores about 200-300 points lower (out of 1600) than the average white student. That's a massive difference that creates a toxic environment IMO. If these holistic reviews generally produced candidates whose credentials more closely matched that of the average student this friction would go away.

This is why I argue in favor of SES-based affirmative action, if there is to be AA at all - to bring diverse viewpoints and backgrounds to the table. I suppose if your opinion is that diversity merely equals kids with different skin colors, then this is not something you'd agree with, but personally, I think a child from rural Iowa or West Virginia or an Asian immigrant brings FAR more to the table in terms of background than the black child of two lawyers from NWDC.

Yes, I agree completely.

[Anonymous]

So everything else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just one question - why do people on here always single out Blacks for everything?

On one hand, you lecture us about doing waht we need to do to improve our communities - including increasing college matriculation. Then as those numbers have increased, we get crap like this. What is this damn obsession with the opportunities that some Blacks are getting?

The issue is not with Blacks attending colleges. All students wishing to attend colleges should be able to attend. The issue is some groups are discriminated on the basis of race in college admissions. I think you would understand if the situation was reversed and blacks were currently discriminated against on the basis of race in college admissions. You would find that unacceptable for blacks.

If the situation was reversed would my black child receive the advantages and privileges that white and Asian children receive at every step of the way in the educational process, before and after college admissions?

Asian children DO NOT receive advantages and privileges in educational process. In fact, many Asian students have to learn a new language, deal with the fact that often there are very few Asian students in their schools whether elementary, middle or high school. Isn't this what many black students complain about? Asian students have to suffer this from elementary school to even colleges since NO ONE even cares that Asians have too few peers around. Asians suffer in silence too often. College admissions may be the issue that may finally be the last straw.

Not only that but they have to put in super effort to achieve academic success that are almost impossible only to be told that they are not welcome at the selective colleges since they are not legacies or URMs-because they are of the wrong race. I hope you can see why this picture is very disappointing to Asian applicants especially if they are middle or lower class with limited options besides academics.

+1.

AAs could learn a thing or two from Asian families.

But they seem too invested in their anti-white rhetoric.

I am white and from my perspective I see far too many white males,in particular, too invested in protecting their privilege.

It's not "protecting one's privilege" to agree with the idea that admission should be based on who is the most meritorious, not on race.

White males have an easier time getting into college than white females or Asians of either gender. Be careful what you wish for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/16/opinion/what-israel-tells-us-about-affirmative-action-and-race.html?_r=0

Yet, as in Israel, the student bodies of elite American colleges would be substantially less racially and ethnically diverse than they are now. Under socioeconomic affirmative action, the share of minority students will decline by nearly a third. The number of African-American students could decline by up to 50 percent, and Hispanics by about 25 percent. At the same time, the share of whites and Asians will rise.

Researchers are saying the truth after fisher II has been argued. That if you went to a SES-based affirmative action system URM enrollment will fall.

So when URMs talk about a boost needed for college admissions, they are not talking about requiring a boost due to SES reasons.

There are too many poor asians and poor whites form a population sense who are academically stronger that would take slots away from URM admits.

OP, this is America. No one gives a damn about poor Asians or poor whites until they organize and fight for what is theirs.

As soon as that is attempted they will be labeled racist.

Well, more and more people are getting tired of this racial business (including, thanks heavens, the Supreme Court!), so they'd get a lot of sympathy and support too mixed with some "racist" labels

This longtime Democrat will vote for Trump. Had it up to here with affirmative action and all the race-based whining.

BS. You're no Democrat. Angry white male?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just one question - why do people on here always single out Blacks for everything?

On one hand, you lecture us about doing waht we need to do to improve our communities - including increasing college matriculation. Then as those numbers have increased, we get crap like this. What is this damn obsession with the opportunities that some Blacks are getting?

The issue is not with Blacks attending colleges. All students wishing to attend colleges should be able to attend. The issue is some groups are discriminated on the basis of race in college admissions. I think you would understand if the situation was reversed and blacks were currently discriminated against on the basis of race in college admissions. You would find that unacceptable for blacks.

If the situation was reversed would my black child receive the advantages and privileges that white and Asian children receive at every step of the way in the educational process, before and after college admissions?

so do tell- what are these advantages my children are receiving?

Jesus you're ignorant. Do you live under a rock?

[Anonymous]

White girls would be against this. Undergrad is the only time for most to experience hooking up with URM guys. They would not be happy if cool URM guys were not on campus and those slots were given to the same old non urm nerds or prep school types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:White girls would be against this. Undergrad is the only time for most to experience hooking up with URM guys. They would not be happy if cool URM guys were not on campus and those slots were given to the same old non urm nerds or prep school types.

This is a site for adults, not high school students. Buzz off kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. I have NEVER seen anyone say that admission should be based off test scores and grades. Admissions SHOULD be holistic.

Race just shouldn't be a factor.

The PP was correct though; it's not an easy answer. I can see the benefits to having different viewpoints/outlooks/experiences at a college. It's going to be a better learning experience than if everybody comes from the same backgrounds. The real rub come in when these holistic factors are used to bring in candidates whose objective qualifications are massively lower than the average student at an institution. I think I read that the average black AA candidate at a top schools have SAT scores about 200-300 points lower (out of 1600) than the average white student. That's a massive difference that creates a toxic environment IMO. If these holistic reviews generally produced candidates whose credentials more closely matched that of the average student this friction would go away.

I would agree, but these benefits are lost when racial groups want to self-segregate into "safe" affinity spaces and dorms. College administrators should resist mightily this regrettable trend, because it undercuts the whole point of seeing a diverse campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. I have NEVER seen anyone say that admission should be based off test scores and grades. Admissions SHOULD be holistic.

Race just shouldn't be a factor.

The PP was correct though; it's not an easy answer. I can see the benefits to having different viewpoints/outlooks/experiences at a college. It's going to be a better learning experience than if everybody comes from the same backgrounds. The real rub come in when these holistic factors are used to bring in candidates whose objective qualifications are massively lower than the average student at an institution. I think I read that the average black AA candidate at a top schools have SAT scores about 200-300 points lower (out of 1600) than the average white student. That's a massive difference that creates a toxic environment IMO. If these holistic reviews generally produced candidates whose credentials more closely matched that of the average student this friction would go away.

This is why I argue in favor of SES-based affirmative action, if there is to be AA at all - to bring diverse viewpoints and backgrounds to the table. I suppose if your opinion is that diversity merely equals kids with different skin colors, then this is not something you'd agree with, but personally, I think a child from rural Iowa or West Virginia or an Asian immigrant brings FAR more to the table in terms of background than the black child of two lawyers from NWDC.

Yes, I agree completely.

+1 !

[Anonymous]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-case-for-race-blind-affirmative-action

new yorker agrees - therefore it is received the liberal a-ok!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just one question - why do people on here always single out Blacks for everything?

On one hand, you lecture us about doing waht we need to do to improve our communities - including increasing college matriculation. Then as those numbers have increased, we get crap like this. What is this damn obsession with the opportunities that some Blacks are getting?

The issue is not with Blacks attending colleges. All students wishing to attend colleges should be able to attend. The issue is some groups are discriminated on the basis of race in college admissions. I think you would understand if the situation was reversed and blacks were currently discriminated against on the basis of race in college admissions. You would find that unacceptable for blacks.

If the situation was reversed would my black child receive the advantages and privileges that white and Asian children receive at every step of the way in the educational process, before and after college admissions?

so do tell- what are these advantages my children are receiving?

Jesus you're ignorant. Do you live under a rock?

of course he doesn't. only black folks are systematically oppressed and have to live under a rock

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just one question - why do people on here always single out Blacks for everything?

On one hand, you lecture us about doing waht we need to do to improve our communities - including increasing college matriculation. Then as those numbers have increased, we get crap like this. What is this damn obsession with the opportunities that some Blacks are getting?

The issue is not with Blacks attending colleges. All students wishing to attend colleges should be able to attend. The issue is some groups are discriminated on the basis of race in college admissions. I think you would understand if the situation was reversed and blacks were currently discriminated against on the basis of race in college admissions. You would find that unacceptable for blacks.

If the situation was reversed would my black child receive the advantages and privileges that white and Asian children receive at every step of the way in the educational process, before and after college admissions?

so do tell- what are these advantages my children are receiving?

Jesus you're ignorant. Do you live under a rock?

of course he doesn't. only black folks are systematically oppressed and have to live under a rock

Guess you live under a rock too. So sorry. And sorry for your kids. Unfortunate for us all really. Trump supporter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just one question - why do people on here always single out Blacks for everything?

On one hand, you lecture us about doing waht we need to do to improve our communities - including increasing college matriculation. Then as those numbers have increased, we get crap like this. What is this damn obsession with the opportunities that some Blacks are getting?

The issue is not with Blacks attending colleges. All students wishing to attend colleges should be able to attend. The issue is some groups are discriminated on the basis of race in college admissions. I think you would understand if the situation was reversed and blacks were currently discriminated against on the basis of race in college admissions. You would find that unacceptable for blacks.

If the situation was reversed would my black child receive the advantages and privileges that white and Asian children receive at every step of the way in the educational process, before and after college admissions?

so do tell- what are these advantages my children are receiving?

Jesus you're ignorant. Do you live under a rock?

of course he doesn't. only black folks are systematically oppressed and have to live under a rock

Guess you live under a rock too. So sorry. And sorry for your kids. Unfortunate for us all really. Trump supporter?

Yes, we live under a rock, and make the best of it. Our kids are becoming strong and resilient, not like those sissy thugs-in-the-making who need to constantly intimidate others and then play the victim card. Thank you for your concern, though.