fairfax county spanish immersion being shut down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school, some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

There can easily be some form of gifted education without AAP centers. We "include" students at the other end of the spectrum with the general ed population. It is ridiculous to think that we cannot accommodate the gifted in the classroom. As far as the middle school and high schools, options were offered long before AAP centers.

Arlington does that for their gifted program. They're not happy with it. But there's no visceral hatred, like there is for AAP, so maybe it's a better idea.

[Anonymous]

Easy way to greatly reduce AAP - increase the standards for getting in each year for the next 5. As kids move out of the program to high school, less kids come in and are replaced.

Easy way to eliminate immersion without logistics problems - no new immersion students after this school year accepted. Once students move up from this year's K class, the incoming class is non immersion. The next year, you have two classes that are non-immersion - K and 1st - and so on and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think FCPS should just serve the basics -- no more TJ, AAP, AP, IB, immersion, academy classes, band, strings, sports. Just stuck with the core classes only, everyone in the same level courses. Then, if there is available money, add things back to improve the experience for all students.


The problem is those pesky state rules that would not let this happen.

Please post the state rule that requires immersion programs.

There are no rules for immersion per say there are state & federal rules on ESOL services. Schools are needing more ESOL trained teachers as the ESOL population expands.

Immersion teachers cause savings on ESOL teacher costs. All immersion teachers need to be ESOL certified in addition to their other credentials. So the school gets to "double dip" when they employ an immersion teacher instead of having a classroom teacher and an ESOL teacher.

This is perhaps true at dual language immersion schools. At our immersion school, teachers do not need dual certification.

But all teachers who have the bilingual cert in Virginia are automatically ESOL certified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think FCPS should just serve the basics -- no more TJ, AAP, AP, IB, immersion, academy classes, band, strings, sports. Just stuck with the core classes only, everyone in the same level courses. Then, if there is available money, add things back to improve the experience for all students.


The problem is those pesky state rules that would not let this happen.

Please post the state rule that requires immersion programs.

Yes, and AAP centers. Oh, that's right! The state doesn't require either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these "back to basics" people that want to scrap it all?

Parents shut out of immersion and AAP.

Nope. Parents who want to see the education in FCPS vastly improve - for everyone, not just certain groups. Divert resources from extras, like immersion and AAP, back to the general student population.

Gifted education is state mandated, true. But nowhere does it say that it has to take the form of a hugely bloated program full of mainstream kids and provide special centers for them. FCPS used to educate its very small population of (actually) gifted kids right in their own schools, imagine! But that was back when FCPS was truly a model of excellence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think FCPS should just serve the basics -- no more TJ, AAP, AP, IB, immersion, academy classes, band, strings, sports. Just stuck with the core classes only, everyone in the same level courses. Then, if there is available money, add things back to improve the experience for all students.


The problem is those pesky state rules that would not let this happen.

There is nothing in state rules that requires AAP centers. And, a lack of AAP centers does not mean that everyone is in the same level courses.

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school[b], some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

PE could, and should, definitely be cut. Just require kids to do some kind of sport, whether individual or team, and have parents sign off on it. PE class is such a waste of time. Even a study hall would be a better use of students' time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school, some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

There can easily be some form of gifted education without AAP centers. We "include" students at the other end of the spectrum with the general ed population. It is ridiculous to think that we cannot accommodate the gifted in the classroom. As far as the middle school and high schools, options were offered long before AAP centers.

Couldn't agree more. It's so interesting that certain parents are all for mainstreaming, or inclusion, of kids at the lower end of the spectrum within GE classes, but insist on having their own snowflakes educated separately. What's wrong with this picture? Why is this one group given special and segregated educational opportunities, but somehow it's ok to lump all of the other students in together, regardless of ability?

[Anonymous]

I agree about PE, particulqrly at the high school level.

I believe high school PE exists solely to have somewhere to put the coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school, some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

There can easily be some form of gifted education without AAP centers. We "include" students at the other end of the spectrum with the general ed population. It is ridiculous to think that we cannot accommodate the gifted in the classroom. As far as the middle school and high schools, options were offered long before AAP centers.

Couldn't agree more. It's so interesting that certain parents are all for mainstreaming, or inclusion, of kids at the lower end of the spectrum within GE classes, but insist on having their own snowflakes educated separately. What's wrong with this picture? Why is this one group given special and segregated educational opportunities, but somehow it's ok to lump all of the other students in together, regardless of ability?

So true - back when I was a FCPS student the GE was done with an IQ test and it was the top 5% at the center schools. Now it is the top 15%. There is a huge difference in the type of kids in the top 5%. They truely have different needs and it's special ed. I have joked with many parents that we should call education for this top 5% special ed. I've got a kid in that top group, and we turned down AAP for immersion since the AAP program doesn't serve the needs of the truely gifted anymore. Immersion has been great in helping us raise a well round student who can relate to all types of people. My goal as a parent is a well rounded kid, not a smart kid - immersion was a great experience in all those fronts. I amazed at our school that it wasn't just families from the target language - there where kids where the home language wasn't english or the target language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think FCPS should just serve the basics -- no more TJ, AAP, AP, IB, immersion, academy classes, band, strings, sports. Just stuck with the core classes only, everyone in the same level courses. Then, if there is available money, add things back to improve the experience for all students.


The problem is those pesky state rules that would not let this happen.

There is nothing in state rules that requires AAP centers. And, a lack of AAP centers does not mean that everyone is in the same level courses.

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school[b], some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

PE could, and should, definitely be cut. Just require kids to do some kind of sport, whether individual or team, and have parents sign off on it. PE class is such a waste of time. Even a study hall would be a better use of students' time.

Health and Driver's Ed are also part of the HS PE curriculum, where would they go (again you cant get rid of state required education). If you require a child to be in a sport, then you have to eliminate cutting from the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school, some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

There can easily be some form of gifted education without AAP centers. We "include" students at the other end of the spectrum with the general ed population. It is ridiculous to think that we cannot accommodate the gifted in the classroom. As far as the middle school and high schools, options were offered long before AAP centers.

Couldn't agree more. It's so interesting that certain parents are all for mainstreaming, or inclusion, of kids at the lower end of the spectrum within GE classes, but insist on having their own snowflakes educated separately. What's wrong with this picture? Why is this one group given special and segregated educational opportunities, but somehow it's ok to lump all of the other students in together, regardless of ability?

So true - back when I was a FCPS student the GE was done with an IQ test and it was the top 5% at the center schools. Now it is the top 15%. There is a huge difference in the type of kids in the top 5%. They truely have different needs and it's special ed. I have joked with many parents that we should call education for this top 5% special ed. I've got a kid in that top group, and we turned down AAP for immersion since the AAP program doesn't serve the needs of the truely gifted anymore. Immersion has been great in helping us raise a well round student who can relate to all types of people. My goal as a parent is a well rounded kid, not a smart kid - immersion was a great experience in all those fronts. I amazed at our school that it wasn't just families from the target language - there where kids where the home language wasn't english or the target language.

This is false, the cut off is still around the 98th percentile based on the nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree about PE, particulqrly at the high school level.

I believe high school PE exists solely to have somewhere to put the coaches.

State regulations would have to be changed and in the past few years there have been attempts to increase the PE requirement in HS, not decrease it. PLus, PE is where they teach health and driver's ed- again state required items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree about PE, particulqrly at the high school level.

I believe high school PE exists solely to have somewhere to put the coaches.

State regulations would have to be changed and in the past few years there have been attempts to increase the PE requirement in HS, not decrease it. PLus, PE is where they teach health and driver's ed- again state required items.

We have a healthcare epidemic in this country - it is obesity. Physical education is critical.

[Anonymous]

My maid teaches my kids Spanish and my kids help her with her English. It is a win, win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there would have to be some form of gifted instruction, not everyone could take the same level core classes. There would have to be PE classes through mid high school, some fine arts, foreign language and an economics class as those are part of the requirements for the two HS diplomas.

There can easily be some form of gifted education without AAP centers. We "include" students at the other end of the spectrum with the general ed population. It is ridiculous to think that we cannot accommodate the gifted in the classroom. As far as the middle school and high schools, options were offered long before AAP centers.

Couldn't agree more. It's so interesting that certain parents are all for mainstreaming, or inclusion, of kids at the lower end of the spectrum within GE classes, but insist on having their own snowflakes educated separately. What's wrong with this picture? Why is this one group given special and segregated educational opportunities, but somehow it's ok to lump all of the other students in together, regardless of ability?

So true - back when I was a FCPS student the GE was done with an IQ test and it was the top 5% at the center schools. Now it is the top 15%. There is a huge difference in the type of kids in the top 5%. They truely have different needs and it's special ed. I have joked with many parents that we should call education for this top 5% special ed. I've got a kid in that top group, and we turned down AAP for immersion since the AAP program doesn't serve the needs of the truely gifted anymore. Immersion has been great in helping us raise a well round student who can relate to all types of people. My goal as a parent is a well rounded kid, not a smart kid - immersion was a great experience in all those fronts. I amazed at our school that it wasn't just families from the target language - there where kids where the home language wasn't english or the target language.

This is false, the cut off is still around the 98th percentile based on the nation.

If AAP is 15% of FCPS, but that represents the 98% percentile of the nation- it just reinforces that GT/AAP is really more about social-economic backgrounds. Or FCPS is truly Lake Wobegone.