fairfax county spanish immersion being shut down

[Anonymous]

If I put it into the budget tool it cuts $1.9 mil

[Anonymous]

Yes, but the way the tool works is it only accounts for the cost of the program being cut, not cost of the IMPACT of the program being cut.

For example, compare it to a personal budget. Every week, you spend $50 on gas, $100 on groceries, and $200 on rent. If you cut gas from your budget, you save $50. However, that doesn't account for the impact of no longer having gas. You'd need to find an alternate form of transportation that doesn't involve gas. So you'll be ADDING another item to the budget in response . . . whether it is metro, uber, a bicycle, etc.

In the context of the immersion program, for some people it will just be a wash. Maybe three students will return to a particular base school, be easily absorbed, and all will provide their own personal transportation. That is money saved.

However, it is also positive that 20-30 students from an immersion program return to the same base school, and that school is already overcrowded. They need to hire additional teachers to maintain legal ratios, and possibly purchase trailers for classroom space. That would actually cost the school more money than they are saving on those 20-30 students not being in immersion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but the way the tool works is it only accounts for the cost of the program being cut, not cost of the IMPACT of the program being cut.

For example, compare it to a personal budget. Every week, you spend $50 on gas, $100 on groceries, and $200 on rent. If you cut gas from your budget, you save $50. However, that doesn't account for the impact of no longer having gas. You'd need to find an alternate form of transportation that doesn't involve gas. So you'll be ADDING another item to the budget in response . . . whether it is metro, uber, a bicycle, etc.

In the context of the immersion program, for some people it will just be a wash. Maybe three students will return to a particular base school, be easily absorbed, and all will provide their own personal transportation. That is money saved.

However, it is also positive that 20-30 students from an immersion program return to the same base school, and that school is already overcrowded. They need to hire additional teachers to maintain legal ratios, and possibly purchase trailers for classroom space. That would actually cost the school more money than they are saving on those 20-30 students not being in immersion.

How do you know that? I haven't seen anything that says how they calculated (or didn't calculate) the number associated with each "cut". Other posters in other threads assume that the numbers associated with each cut include all increases and decreases associated with it. I get that they are trying to transparent, but the system is so complicated, that I think their "transparency" is simply confusing.

[Anonymous]

Fairfax County needs to study their vacancies and recalibrate their program to language demand. Too much Spanish. Not enough Japanese. Korean needs to change from two-way immersion to partial immersion like the rest. Replace a couple Spanish programs with Chinese, Arabic, Russian, or other critical needs languages.

-DC parent thinking about moving to Fairfax for immersion

[Anonymous]

However, it is also positive that 20-30 students from an immersion program return to the same base school, and that school is already overcrowded. They need to hire additional teachers to maintain legal ratios, and possibly purchase trailers for classroom space. That would actually cost the school more money than they are saving on those 20-30 students not being in immersion.

Spin. Of course, it is possible. Likely? NO. It makes planning easier if kids go to the schools within their boundaries. That is a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Following this situation very closely and anxious for results, come May. We were enthusiastically planning to move from DC to Fairfax and were excited about a seamless transfer from a DC immersion program. If Fairfax gets rid of immersion we will stay put in DC. Those against the program could probably give a hoot; however, Fairfax will lose people who would add to the tax base if it gets rid of great programs. Very sad for everyone.

No worries there. FCPS is already overcrowded, so it would be great if fewer people moved here. I sincerely hope they do cut immersion, AAP, and other extraneous programs. Maybe then the focus can return to beefing up basics such as grammar, writing, and spelling - for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our principal has been told that it is very very very unlikely that immersion will be cut even though it is in the proposal. The school board knows it would be a logistical nightmare. What could potentially happen is that some of the immersion supports may be decreased but the actual program will remain.

how would this be a logistical nightmare?

This is what I'm wondering too. Immersion ends? Kids return to their base schools. Same with AAP. Logistics would actually be much easier. The people making this into such a "logistical nightmare" are those who refuse to acknowledge how wasteful these programs are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
immersion is a waste of money especially for things like German, Japanese and all the other languages no one will continue to use. i am all for shutting it down.



Too bad shutting it down won't save any money.

If they do, the same kids will be somewhere else in FCPS. They will need classrooms, teachers, and everything else that costs money.



This last statement is untrue. It will save money.



Correct. FCPS says $1.9 million.

Not entirely. FCPS knows how much they spend as a budget line item for immersion right now. They can isolate that item immediately. What they haven't done is off-set that number with the costs of returning all the immersion children to their base schools. This is partly because they can't know yet what exactly that will look like - how many of them will need busing to their base school? Will it require an additional bus? How many students will return to each base school? How many of those students will need free or reduced lunch? Will it require additional teachers and/or TAs at those base schools? Will it require additional classrooms (trailers) for some schools that are already overcrowded? Plus the administrative cost of getting all the students' records transferred to all the base schools.

Simply figuring that out would take weeks of sorting through the data. They haven't done that. The $1.9 million number is JUST the cost of immersion program. It doesn't include costs incurred for cutting it.

Oh please. The sky is really not falling. You're right that these kids will need to go to school somewhere. And that's why every child in FCPS has a base school to attend. If immersion didn't exist in the first place, those kids would already be attending their base schools. They will simply hop on their neighborhood bus and go to their neighborhood school. Records are very easily transferred (Computers! Amazing!). I find it comical that some of you are really making this into a potential catastrophe situation. Same with closing AAP centers. Those kids have base schools to go to; they would simply go to them. Simplifying is definitely better and more cost-effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However, it is also positive that 20-30 students from an immersion program return to the same base school, and that school is already overcrowded. They need to hire additional teachers to maintain legal ratios, and possibly purchase trailers for classroom space. That would actually cost the school more money than they are saving on those 20-30 students not being in immersion.

Spin. Of course, it is possible. Likely? NO. It makes planning easier if kids go to the schools within their boundaries. That is a fact.

+1000
Total spin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our principal has been told that it is very very very unlikely that immersion will be cut even though it is in the proposal. The school board knows it would be a logistical nightmare. What could potentially happen is that some of the immersion supports may be decreased but the actual program will remain.

how would this be a logistical nightmare?

This is what I'm wondering too. Immersion ends? Kids return to their base schools. Same with AAP. Logistics would actually be much easier. The people making this into such a "logistical nightmare" are those who refuse to acknowledge how wasteful these programs are.

Cutting immersion is not really a logistic issue at all and far less of a logistical hassle than cutting AAP.

Whether you hate AAP or think it is vital, it is obvious that eliminating centers will result in rezoning a huge number of non center elementary schools country wide.

This will not happen with immersion. Resources and students can easily be shifted to accomodate those students switching back to their base schools. Immersion schools are not pulling hundreds of students from three or four neighboring schools. They are pulling a handful of students from many different school zones from all over the county. Sending a half dozen or so kids back to twenty or thirty different base schools is infinitely simpler and easier logistically than sending 100-150+ kids each to two or three different elementary schools while leaving the base school several hundred kids under capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our principal has been told that it is very very very unlikely that immersion will be cut even though it is in the proposal. The school board knows it would be a logistical nightmare. What could potentially happen is that some of the immersion supports may be decreased but the actual program will remain.

how would this be a logistical nightmare?

This is what I'm wondering too. Immersion ends? Kids return to their base schools. Same with AAP. Logistics would actually be much easier. The people making this into such a "logistical nightmare" are those who refuse to acknowledge how wasteful these programs are.

Cutting immersion is not really a logistic issue at all and far less of a logistical hassle than cutting AAP.

Whether you hate AAP or think it is vital, it is obvious that eliminating centers will result in rezoning a huge number of non center elementary schools country wide.

This will not happen with immersion. Resources and students can easily be shifted to accomodate those students switching back to their base schools. Immersion schools are not pulling hundreds of students from three or four neighboring schools. They are pulling a handful of students from many different school zones from all over the county. Sending a half dozen or so kids back to twenty or thirty different base schools is infinitely simpler and easier logistically than sending 100-150+ kids each to two or three different elementary schools while leaving the base school several hundred kids under capacity.

I can't speak to other schools but my daughter's OOB classmates all pull from the same couple of schools. Maybe that's a coincidence, I don't know.

[Anonymous]

I can't speak to other schools but my daughter's OOB classmates all pull from the same couple of schools. Maybe that's a coincidence, I don't know.

No, it isn't coincidence. Since FCPS doesn't provide busing for immersion, students need to live nearby in order to make the logistics work in 99% of families. So we are in the same boat - at our Spanish immersion school, 99% of kids come from the same handful of elementary schools in the Lake Braddock pyramid. Sure, some students may be "super commuters" or at a school near a parent's workplace, but it is the minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our principal has been told that it is very very very unlikely that immersion will be cut even though it is in the proposal. The school board knows it would be a logistical nightmare. What could potentially happen is that some of the immersion supports may be decreased but the actual program will remain.

how would this be a logistical nightmare?

This is what I'm wondering too. Immersion ends? Kids return to their base schools. Same with AAP. Logistics would actually be much easier. The people making this into such a "logistical nightmare" are those who refuse to acknowledge how wasteful these programs are.

Cutting immersion is not really a logistic issue at all and far less of a logistical hassle than cutting AAP.

Whether you hate AAP or think it is vital, it is obvious that eliminating centers will result in rezoning a huge number of non center elementary schools country wide.

This will not happen with immersion. Resources and students can easily be shifted to accomodate those students switching back to their base schools. Immersion schools are not pulling hundreds of students from three or four neighboring schools. They are pulling a handful of students from many different school zones from all over the county. Sending a half dozen or so kids back to twenty or thirty different base schools is infinitely simpler and easier logistically than sending 100-150+ kids each to two or three different elementary schools while leaving the base school several hundred kids under capacity.

I would welcome rezoning. Rezone, send the kids back to base schools, done. And actually, I doubt rezoning would even have to be done. I think you're exaggerating the effect of sending these kids back. At our center, most of the AAP students are zoned for the center as their base school anyway. That's a huge number of kids who would wind up just staying where they currently are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I can't speak to other schools but my daughter's OOB classmates all pull from the same couple of schools. Maybe that's a coincidence, I don't know.

No, it isn't coincidence. Since FCPS doesn't provide busing for immersion, students need to live nearby in order to make the logistics work in 99% of families. So we are in the same boat - at our Spanish immersion school, 99% of kids come from the same handful of elementary schools in the Lake Braddock pyramid. Sure, some students may be "super commuters" or at a school near a parent's workplace, but it is the minority.

Same here. Not the LB pyramid, but almost all of the kids are distracted to the couple other schools in the same town. That's not to say there aren't ANY coming from a distance, but the vast majority aren't. So while some schools probably wouldn't have any noticeable changes if immersion were gone, there are probably several other elementary schools that would be taking in a decent number of extra kids.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Immersion and AAP haters...neither program is going to be cut as much as you may they would be.