S/o (VA public schools). IB and college preparedness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found some FCPS data on IB math exams for 2012-13 year. Over twice as many FCPS IB students took Mathematics - SL as Mathematics-HL (the course more analogous to an AP course), and about three times as many took Math Studies - SL. The average score on the IB HL exam in FCPS was 3.2 on a scale of 1-7, which is considered a failing grade. In the same year, eight times as many students took the AP Calculus BC exam, and the average score was 4.0 on a scale of 1.5, which is well over what is considered a passing grade (3.0).

So IB attracts relatively few students at IB schools, most opt for the easier math options, and most of the few who attempt the more rigorous math sequence don't pass the exam. I'd have to say it's not a very strong case for IB, at least as implemented in FCPS.

NP. Amazing interpretation. Could this not have shown that
a) IB HL exam is actually much harder than AP Calc BC exam;

or

b) IB programs in FCPS are placed in relatively low-ranking high schools with academically weaker populations?

A cursory review of College Confidential will reveal that it is harder to earn a 5-6-7 in IB HL tests than it is to earn 4-5 in AP tests. Point b), I hope, is obvious.

Why you all are wasting your time maligning a program you have no interest in is beyond me. The point is, IB is a great option for some students. The FCPS implementation unfortunately has doomed it to mediocrity. IB Diploma is equivalent to a high AP load, it is not for the majority of students, and as such should be implemented as a magnet or concentrated in a few schools. I believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).

[Anonymous]

Why you all are wasting your time maligning a program you have no interest in is beyond me.

What part of the fact that it costs twice as much to the taxpayer do you not understand?

[Anonymous]

AP is easier so it gives every snow flake extra points

[Anonymous]

I believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).

Wow. So, then, even fewer kids would be taking IB--and it would be even less cost effective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found some FCPS data on IB math exams for 2012-13 year. Over twice as many FCPS IB students took Mathematics - SL as Mathematics-HL (the course more analogous to an AP course), and about three times as many took Math Studies - SL. The average score on the IB HL exam in FCPS was 3.2 on a scale of 1-7, which is considered a failing grade. In the same year, eight times as many students took the AP Calculus BC exam, and the average score was 4.0 on a scale of 1.5, which is well over what is considered a passing grade (3.0).

So IB attracts relatively few students at IB schools, most opt for the easier math options, and most of the few who attempt the more rigorous math sequence don't pass the exam. I'd have to say it's not a very strong case for IB, at least as implemented in FCPS.

NP. Amazing interpretation. Could this not have shown that
a) IB HL exam is actually much harder than AP Calc BC exam;

or

b) IB programs in FCPS are placed in relatively low-ranking high schools with academically weaker populations?

A cursory review of College Confidential will reveal that it is harder to earn a 5-6-7 in IB HL tests than it is to earn 4-5 in AP tests. Point b), I hope, is obvious.

Why you all are wasting your time maligning a program you have no interest in is beyond me. The point is, IB is a great option for some students. The FCPS implementation unfortunately has doomed it to mediocrity. IB Diploma is equivalent to a high AP load, it is not for the majority of students, and as such should be implemented as a magnet or concentrated in a few schools. I believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).

Everything but the last sentence of the prior post was just factual information. The last sentence was an interpretation or an inference with which you appear to agree: "The FCPS implementation unfortunately has doomed it to mediocrity."

I think where that leaves you is arguing that (1) IB HL is really hard, so it's OK if most students fail the exam and get no credit for it; and (2) we should completely revamp the IB model in FCPS. Neither makes a strong case that sending a kid to an IB school in FCPS in 2015 is a great idea for most college-bound students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).

Wow. So, then, even fewer kids would be taking IB--and it would be even less cost effective?

Why would that impact those who transfer from Mclean or Langley to Marshall or from Herndon to South Lakes for IB? Only kids who are well prepared for it and who see the benefit of an integrated course with a heavy writing component would take it. How cost-effective it would be is a matter for analysis, for which we don't have the full information. And don't tell me how everything else in FCPS is so cost effective (FLES anyone?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Everything but the last sentence of the prior post was just factual information. The last sentence was an interpretation or an inference with which you appear to agree: "The FCPS implementation unfortunately has doomed it to mediocrity."

Yes, placing IB in weak schools makes the IB program appear weak. The thought that giving Stuart and Lee an IB program will somehow make those schools better (if that was the intention) is baseless, and is demonstrated by the weak participation and results (relatively low percent of IB DP candidates actually get the diploma) there.

Anonymous wrote:
I think where that leaves you is arguing that (1) IB HL is really hard, so it's OK if most students fail the exam and get no credit for it; and (2) we should completely revamp the IB model in FCPS. Neither makes a strong case that sending a kid to an IB school in FCPS in 2015 is a great idea for most college-bound students.

That sounds like the devil reading scripture. Yes, IB HL is hard but the example was for IB HL Math, not all IB HL. As you have seen from previously posted stats, plenty of seniors get the IB Diploma, and they can't do that unless they earn a grade of 5 or better on ALL their HL exams. No one is arguing the IB is for everyone. Indeed, it is not for most students. That does not mean it is not a good fit for ANY student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, placing IB in weak schools makes the IB program appear weak. The thought that giving Stuart and Lee an IB program will somehow make those schools better (if that was the intention) is baseless, and is demonstrated by the weak participation and results (relatively low percent of IB DP candidates actually get the diploma) there.

Can't argue with that.

Anonymous wrote:

That sounds like the devil reading scripture. Yes, IB HL is hard but the example was for IB HL Math, not all IB HL. As you have seen from previously posted stats, plenty of seniors get the IB Diploma, and they can't do that unless they earn a grade of 5 or better on ALL their HL exams. No one is arguing the IB is for everyone. Indeed, it is not for most students. That does not mean it is not a good fit for ANY student.

Actually, the previously posted stats underscore that few students get the IB Diploma in FCPS. Yes, IB may be a good fit for some students, but there have been few useful posts as to which students fall into that category, and a lot of self-serving platitudes offered instead about how IB is for "deep thinkers," whereas AP purportedly consists of nothing but multiple-choice exams. So I'd invite you again to explain which students might benefit more from IB than from AP and why. We are paying an awful lot of money for this program, so please be specific this time.

[Anonymous]

believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).


Wow. So, then, even fewer kids would be taking IB--and it would be even less cost effective?



Why would that impact those who transfer from Mclean or Langley to Marshall or from Herndon to South Lakes for IB? Only kids who are well prepared for it and who see the benefit of an integrated course with a heavy writing component would take it. How cost-effective it would be is a matter for analysis, for which we don't have the full information. And don't tell me how everything else in FCPS is so cost effective (FLES anyone?)

So, you don't see why this will cost more?
1. Adding AP in schools that already have IB. That is the first additional cost.
2. Add bus transportation to IB schools for PP? Another additional cost.
You really don't understand that you have now added quite a bit of additional expenses.

And, for the record, I don't think FLES is money well spent either. Get rid of that program, too.

[Anonymous]

Why would that impact those who transfer from Mclean or Langley to Marshall or from Herndon to South Lakes for IB? Only kids who are well prepared for it and who see the benefit of an integrated course with a heavy writing component would take it. How cost-effective it would be is a matter for analysis, for which we don't have the full information. And don't tell me how everything else in FCPS is so cost effective (FLES anyone?)

You do know that there is a heavy writing demand in AP classes, I hope? Sounds like you think it is just a multiple- choice class.

[Anonymous]

believe AP should be offered in every school, even IB ones. Then no one should be allowed to switch for AP, and only those truly committed and likely to succeed in IB Diploma program will seek it and transfer. Transportation should be provided (just like it is forTJ and AAP centers, and I believe academies).


Wow. So, then, even fewer kids would be taking IB--and it would be even less cost effective?



Why would that impact those who transfer from Mclean or Langley to Marshall or from Herndon to South Lakes for IB? Only kids who are well prepared for it and who see the benefit of an integrated course with a heavy writing component would take it. How cost-effective it would be is a matter for analysis, for which we don't have the full information. And don't tell me how everything else in FCPS is so cost effective (FLES anyone?)


So, you don't see why this will cost more?
1. Adding AP in schools that already have IB. That is the first additional cost.
2. Add bus transportation to IB schools for PP? Another additional cost.
You really don't understand that you have now added quite a bit of additional expenses.

And, for the record, I don't think FLES is money well spent either. Get rid of that program, too.

It really does cost much more to do this. Just take a look at W-L in APS, which has both AP and IB. To do it, they have two sets of teachers--the IB-trained ones and the AP ones. Imagine the cost of this across every FCPS school.

[Anonymous]

my dd did ib and ended up taking a full ride to an average state school rather than half scholarships and acceptances to top schools. frankly she breezed through college and will be attendind a tippy top professional school in the fall. she claimed that ib prepared her well for college. she also took ap classes for additional gpa boost and credits.

[Anonymous]

my dd did ib and ended up taking a full ride to an average state school rather than half scholarships and acceptances to top schools. frankly she breezed through college and will be attendind a tippy top professional school in the fall. she claimed that ib prepared her well for college. she also took ap classes for additional gpa boost and credits.

And, she couldn't have done that with AP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

my dd did ib and ended up taking a full ride to an average state school rather than half scholarships and acceptances to top schools. frankly she breezed through college and will be attendind a tippy top professional school in the fall. she claimed that ib prepared her well for college. she also took ap classes for additional gpa boost and credits.

And, she couldn't have done that with AP?

Don't even bother trying to answer this poster. Let him/her just go argue with him/herself for a while.
Meanwhile, thank you for sharing your dd's experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my dd did ib and ended up taking a full ride to an average state school rather than half scholarships and acceptances to top schools. frankly she breezed through college and will be attendind a tippy top professional school in the fall. she claimed that ib prepared her well for college. she also took ap classes for additional gpa boost and credits.

DC did the same but we are in MCPS. A full ride is so sweet!