Something bothering me about my mom's death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

And I think you're describing an agnostic person not an atheist. An atheist would insist they do not have doubts, their position is one of no gods existing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

And I think you're describing an agnostic person not an atheist. An atheist would insist they do not have doubts, their position is one of no gods existing.

Agnostics also do not believe in god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

And I think you're describing an agnostic person not an atheist. An atheist would insist they do not have doubts, their position is one of no gods existing.

Agnostics also do not believe in god.

You're right. But there is more room for just "not knowing."

[Anonymous]

^for agnostics, that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

To clarify, I was not the pp who said that many people who believe in God do not believe in hell. As far as struggling with doubts, having some sort of shattering of faith and/or just never having been taught about religion to begin with - yes, that happens. Some people over time might work through that conflict and some people die before they can resolve it. God isn't going to kick a good person into hell just because they had doubts or even denied his existence. In the other hand, God is not going to put up with someone who worships God in appearance only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

To clarify, I was not the pp who said that many people who believe in God do not believe in hell. As far as struggling with doubts, having some sort of shattering of faith and/or just never having been taught about religion to begin with - yes, that happens. Some people over time might work through that conflict and some people die before they can resolve it. God isn't going to kick a good person into hell just because they had doubts or even denied his existence. In the other hand, God is not going to put up with someone who worships God in appearance only.

What is said above about how god thinks are nice ideas, but they are personally determined and not what Christianity teaches. Also many people who are nonbelievers have not had their faith "shattered" and don't consider their non-faith as an unresolved "conflict." They simply don't believe. They think they and everyone else are going nowhere when they die. Christianity says they are going to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

To clarify, I was not the pp who said that many people who believe in God do not believe in hell. As far as struggling with doubts, having some sort of shattering of faith and/or just never having been taught about religion to begin with - yes, that happens. Some people over time might work through that conflict and some people die before they can resolve it. God isn't going to kick a good person into hell just because they had doubts or even denied his existence. In the other hand, God is not going to put up with someone who worships God in appearance only.

What is said above about how god thinks are nice ideas, but they are personally determined and not what Christianity teaches. Also many people who are nonbelievers have not had their faith "shattered" and don't consider their non-faith as an unresolved "conflict." They simply don't believe. They think they and everyone else are going nowhere when they die. Christianity says they are going to hell.

My own interpretation of these teachings is that people who decide that God is not real are less inclined to listen to their conscience. Without God there is no real reason for them to keep their own wants/needs/greed/desires in check. Why not steal? Why not cheat? Why not murder someone standing in your way? Why not take their money? Why not lie? Simply put, why live by the golden rule when doing so makes it harder to get the things that YOU want? Be nice to another person's face but stab them in the back if it gets you what you covet.

Of course there are plenty of people who are basically decent, they do right by others, they just don't happen to believe in God. There is no crisis of faith, that's just what they think is true. Yet, they are still good people. It is my feeling that they do feel God's love through their encounters with other people who do believe in God. And that goodness that they feel in their heart radiates back out from them. They are good because God is good even if they don't believe in God. Heaven isn't an exclusive club no matter what anyone says. Getting to Heaven is not about jumping through hoops, performing rituals, saying the right words (although these things can help people to stay on the right track)...it is about doing your best to do the right thing and owning up to your mistakes. Church groups help believers to combine their efforts to make the biggest possible good impact in this world. I am not a church goer...yet. But the more I see, the more I wish to be.

God wants you (all of us) to be good and to feel loved. But there are folks out there who find it easier to take a different, unloving path. They radiate evil even though at times they can be wolves in sheeps' clothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

To clarify, I was not the pp who said that many people who believe in God do not believe in hell. As far as struggling with doubts, having some sort of shattering of faith and/or just never having been taught about religion to begin with - yes, that happens. Some people over time might work through that conflict and some people die before they can resolve it. God isn't going to kick a good person into hell just because they had doubts or even denied his existence. In the other hand, God is not going to put up with someone who worships God in appearance only.

What is said above about how god thinks are nice ideas, but they are personally determined and not what Christianity teaches. Also many people who are nonbelievers have not had their faith "shattered" and don't consider their non-faith as an unresolved "conflict." They simply don't believe. They think they and everyone else are going nowhere when they die. Christianity says they are going to hell.

My own interpretation of these teachings is that people who decide that God is not real are less inclined to listen to their conscience. Without God there is no real reason for them to keep their own wants/needs/greed/desires in check. Why not steal? Why not cheat? Why not murder someone standing in your way? Why not take their money? Why not lie? Simply put, why live by the golden rule when doing so makes it harder to get the things that YOU want? Be nice to another person's face but stab them in the back if it gets you what you covet.

Of course there are plenty of people who are basically decent, they do right by others, they just don't happen to believe in God. There is no crisis of faith, that's just what they think is true. Yet, they are still good people. It is my feeling that they do feel God's love through their encounters with other people who do believe in God. And that goodness that they feel in their heart radiates back out from them. They are good because God is good even if they don't believe in God. Heaven isn't an exclusive club no matter what anyone says. Getting to Heaven is not about jumping through hoops, performing rituals, saying the right words (although these things can help people to stay on the right track)...it is about doing your best to do the right thing and owning up to your mistakes. Church groups help believers to combine their efforts to make the biggest possible good impact in this world. I am not a church goer...yet. But the more I see, the more I wish to be.

God wants you (all of us) to be good and to feel loved. But there are folks out there who find it easier to take a different, unloving path. They radiate evil even though at times they can be wolves in sheeps' clothing.

This can't be real. If a person wanted to be a church goer they would go to church, yet she sanctimonusly knows what what god thinks and what he wants. When everyone has their own idiosyncratic ideas about god it's evident that they're just making it up. but why? for comfort?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely believe in hell and Satan. But I believe that hell is reserved for the truly evil. Simply being uncertain of God's existence is not evil, in fact, I would say that it's pretty human to have doubts. God isn't going to send you to the depths of hell for having doubts about his existence. If you are otherwise living a good and decent life - you will be o.k. At the same time, I don't believe that simply showing up to church every Sunday is enough to save your soul from hell if you are attending church just for appearances - to make yourself look good. What you do when no one else is looking is just as important. God knows what is in your heart.

You not the previous pp then? The one who said "Don't forget the many, many people who believe in god(s) who do not believe in hell(s)"

At any, it still sounds iike you're making up your own religion -- saying what God does and does not do.

As for "having doubts" - many people who had doubts and struggled with them for a long time, don't have doubts anymore -- they studied and pondered and arrived at non-belief. They do not believe in god. I know Christianity embrace people who doubt, but it does not embrace people who have gone beyond doubt to non-belief.

According to Christian beliefs, those people will not have eternal life and will go to hell. It's not a matter of what you believe god will do, it's a matter of what god made very clear in the religion on Christianity.

To clarify, I was not the pp who said that many people who believe in God do not believe in hell. As far as struggling with doubts, having some sort of shattering of faith and/or just never having been taught about religion to begin with - yes, that happens. Some people over time might work through that conflict and some people die before they can resolve it. God isn't going to kick a good person into hell just because they had doubts or even denied his existence. In the other hand, God is not going to put up with someone who worships God in appearance only.

What is said above about how god thinks are nice ideas, but they are personally determined and not what Christianity teaches. Also many people who are nonbelievers have not had their faith "shattered" and don't consider their non-faith as an unresolved "conflict." They simply don't believe. They think they and everyone else are going nowhere when they die. Christianity says they are going to hell.

My own interpretation of these teachings is that people who decide that God is not real are less inclined to listen to their conscience. Without God there is no real reason for them to keep their own wants/needs/greed/desires in check. Why not steal? Why not cheat? Why not murder someone standing in your way? Why not take their money? Why not lie? Simply put, why live by the golden rule when doing so makes it harder to get the things that YOU want? Be nice to another person's face but stab them in the back if it gets you what you covet.

Of course there are plenty of people who are basically decent, they do right by others, they just don't happen to believe in God. There is no crisis of faith, that's just what they think is true. Yet, they are still good people. It is my feeling that they do feel God's love through their encounters with other people who do believe in God. And that goodness that they feel in their heart radiates back out from them. They are good because God is good even if they don't believe in God. Heaven isn't an exclusive club no matter what anyone says. Getting to Heaven is not about jumping through hoops, performing rituals, saying the right words (although these things can help people to stay on the right track)...it is about doing your best to do the right thing and owning up to your mistakes. Church groups help believers to combine their efforts to make the biggest possible good impact in this world. I am not a church goer...yet. But the more I see, the more I wish to be.

God wants you (all of us) to be good and to feel loved. But there are folks out there who find it easier to take a different, unloving path. They radiate evil even though at times they can be wolves in sheeps' clothing.

This can't be real. If a person wanted to be a church goer they would go to church, yet she sanctimonusly knows what what god thinks and what he wants. When everyone has their own idiosyncratic ideas about god it's evident that they're just making it up. but why? for comfort?

I don't think that all churches are equally right for all people. But God loves us all and is always there for us all, whether we go to church or not. Church is simply an organized worship of God. It is quite possible to believe in God without attending church though. Finding the right fit in a church is key and that sometimes takes time. Especially for a person who is not used to going to church .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that all churches are equally right for all people. But God loves us all and is always there for us all, whether we go to church or not. Church is simply an organized worship of God. It is quite possible to believe in God without attending church though. Finding the right fit in a church is key and that sometimes takes time. Especially for a person who is not used to going to church .

Obviously all churches are not right for all people just as all music, etc is not right for all people. -- they are human-made things and are based on personal preferences.

But pp cannot speak for God about what God is like - God decides that and has given us lots of information in the book he left for us-- The Bible. Granted, the bible is very old and has been translated many times and interpreted differently over the centuries, and has some weird stuff in it that seems cruel and/or terribly outdated, but it is what God has given to us to us humans.

For us to say things about God that he has not said about himself is simply making up a god an individual feels comfortable with. No human is in the position of defining god - only god can do that. God has made it very clear that he punished people who don't believe in him. It may be hard to accept that the pleasant, generous, thoughtful atheist you work with won't go to heaven, but that's the way it is.

So make up a god if you want, but that god is not going to get you to Christian heaven -- only christians who accept Jesus as the son of god and as their savior will go to heaven - that is perfectly clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that all churches are equally right for all people. But God loves us all and is always there for us all, whether we go to church or not. Church is simply an organized worship of God. It is quite possible to believe in God without attending church though. Finding the right fit in a church is key and that sometimes takes time. Especially for a person who is not used to going to church .

Obviously all churches are not right for all people just as all music, etc is not right for all people. -- they are human-made things and are based on personal preferences.

But pp cannot speak for God about what God is like - God decides that and has given us lots of information in the book he left for us-- The Bible. Granted, the bible is very old and has been translated many times and interpreted differently over the centuries, and has some weird stuff in it that seems cruel and/or terribly outdated, but it is what God has given to us to us humans.

For us to say things about God that he has not said about himself is simply making up a god an individual feels comfortable with. No human is in the position of defining god - only god can do that. God has made it very clear that he punished people who don't believe in him. It may be hard to accept that the pleasant, generous, thoughtful atheist you work with won't go to heaven, but that's the way it is.

So make up a god if you want, but that god is not going to get you to Christian heaven -- only christians who accept Jesus as the son of god and as their savior will go to heaven - that is perfectly clear.

God punishes people who don't believe in him. And specifically he punishes people who willfully turn their back in him. I accept Jesus as the son of God and I know that Jesus died for US - not just the people who go to the Holy Church of the Bestest Believers in the World.

Basically, if you make it a point to live by the 10 commandments you should be good. We are not all, and God does not expect us all, to be religious scholars. He expects us to do the best we can but is well aware that that will mean different things for each one of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that all churches are equally right for all people. But God loves us all and is always there for us all, whether we go to church or not. Church is simply an organized worship of God. It is quite possible to believe in God without attending church though. Finding the right fit in a church is key and that sometimes takes time. Especially for a person who is not used to going to church .

Obviously all churches are not right for all people just as all music, etc is not right for all people. -- they are human-made things and are based on personal preferences.

But pp cannot speak for God about what God is like - God decides that and has given us lots of information in the book he left for us-- The Bible. Granted, the bible is very old and has been translated many times and interpreted differently over the centuries, and has some weird stuff in it that seems cruel and/or terribly outdated, but it is what God has given to us to us humans.

For us to say things about God that he has not said about himself is simply making up a god an individual feels comfortable with. No human is in the position of defining god - only god can do that. God has made it very clear that he punished people who don't believe in him. It may be hard to accept that the pleasant, generous, thoughtful atheist you work with won't go to heaven, but that's the way it is.

So make up a god if you want, but that god is not going to get you to Christian heaven -- only christians who accept Jesus as the son of god and as their savior will go to heaven - that is perfectly clear.

God punishes people who don't believe in him. And specifically he punishes people who willfully turn their back in him. I accept Jesus as the son of God and I know that Jesus died for US - not just the people who go to the Holy Church of the Bestest Believers in the World.

Basically, if you make it a point to live by the 10 commandments you should be good. We are not all, and God does not expect us all, to be religious scholars. He expects us to do the best we can but is well aware that that will mean different things for each one of us.

Actually God could care less if we are religious scholars -- he just wants us to worship him as ruler of the universe and to accept his son as our savior. Living by the ten commandments is not enough, because Jesus is not mentioned in them (wasn't born yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think that all churches are equally right for all people. But God loves us all and is always there for us all, whether we go to church or not. Church is simply an organized worship of God. It is quite possible to believe in God without attending church though. Finding the right fit in a church is key and that sometimes takes time. Especially for a person who is not used to going to church .

Obviously all churches are not right for all people just as all music, etc is not right for all people. -- they are human-made things and are based on personal preferences.

But pp cannot speak for God about what God is like - God decides that and has given us lots of information in the book he left for us-- The Bible. Granted, the bible is very old and has been translated many times and interpreted differently over the centuries, and has some weird stuff in it that seems cruel and/or terribly outdated, but it is what God has given to us to us humans.

For us to say things about God that he has not said about himself is simply making up a god an individual feels comfortable with. No human is in the position of defining god - only god can do that. God has made it very clear that he punished people who don't believe in him. It may be hard to accept that the pleasant, generous, thoughtful atheist you work with won't go to heaven, but that's the way it is.

So make up a god if you want, but that god is not going to get you to Christian heaven -- only christians who accept Jesus as the son of god and as their savior will go to heaven - that is perfectly clear.

God punishes people who don't believe in him. And specifically he punishes people who willfully turn their back in him. I accept Jesus as the son of God and I know that Jesus died for US - not just the people who go to the Holy Church of the Bestest Believers in the World.

Basically, if you make it a point to live by the 10 commandments you should be good. We are not all, and God does not expect us all, to be religious scholars. He expects us to do the best we can but is well aware that that will mean different things for each one of us.

Actually God could care less if we are religious scholars -- he just wants us to worship him as ruler of the universe and to accept his son as our savior. Living by the ten commandments is not enough, because Jesus is not mentioned in them (wasn't born yet).

Until a few hundred years ago, most people, including people who believed in God, were illiterate. Today, the countries with the highest belief in God (with the exception of the US) are also the poorest and least educated, to God definitely does not care about education of any kind.

even highly educated people today will tell you that faith is more important than education when it comes to God. Whenever they have doubts base on evidence which seems to point away from god, e.g. prayers not answered, the problem of evil, etc., they just wait until faith kicks in and everything is fine again.

[Anonymous]

For all of you debating hell's existence. You're in a separate group from the following. But those who do believe in hell should consider there are two places mentioned in Revelation, not one.

Those of you who do believe in hell but are debating who will be there and who won't. Why don't you do some research to learn just what 'going to hell' really means. Is it a place of eternal 'living' punishment or death. It is so easy to connect the dots using the word. How about starting with what the wages of sin is.