What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Many of our ancestors were treated like shit. Mine worked in coal mines and died of black lung long before you could get money for it.

Except we weren't treated like shit when we, you know, were living peacefully on the land we had lived on for thousands of years. It's one thing to come to the US and be treated like shit in exchange for opportunity for your kids. It's another to be here, minding your own business, and have other people show up and kick you off your land and prevent you from practicing your culture.

Yeah, brush up on American Indian history. There was a lot of wars between tribes. Look at the Axtecs. And Incas. It wasn't all like Disney movies show.

The Aztecs and Incas lived in Central and South America and their cultures were very different from most eastern native american tribes. There were so few people in north America relative to the size of the land and the amount of resources that there was not much conflict among different groups. Regardless, the eastern north american tribes didn't sail to another continent and kill off 90% of the population and herd the rest into an area less than 1% the size they started with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Native Americans is the right word. Columbus is long dead.

You must not know any American Indians. I spend a lot of time on reservations. You're completely wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point was that people don't discriminate against the Am. Indian culture anymore, so yes, I was serious. You, or the other PP, seems to think that because PP's grandfather had to hide his NA ancestry and lose his culture that being 1/8 or 1/16 NA still should allow for special treatment even though they are now middle class. It doesn't.

If, however, a 1/8 or 1/16 NA still lived on a Reservation and was dirt poor, then yes, you should be given some special treatment. But the PP is middle class, so no, you don't get special treatment.

If OP was thinking that checking the NA box would garner some special treatment in a college app, then yes, you probably would. But, I'm guessing that the College would not think that when you check that box that you are 1/16 NA. If you are 1/16 NA, then you should check more than one box.

You must be kidding. (I'm a different PP.)

OK, enlighten me. How do people still discriminate against the NA culture? Are there pockets of the US that are racist or prejudiced against NA? Sure, as there are pockets that are that way towards Asians, Blacks, Hispanics. Should all non Whites have special treatment, even if they are middle class?

Well, for one local example, most people in DC think its acceptable to use a racial slur against Native Americans as the name of a sports team.

[Anonymous]

The following article doesn't address admissions "perks" for Indians, but it does address some of the misconceptions reflected in this thread and is an interesting and relevant read for anyone who may be interested in learning more about the racial and political components of tribal membership, and the history behind current practices.

http://www.fedbar.org/Publications/The-Federal-Lawyer/Features/Diversely-Native.aspx?FT=.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The following article doesn't address admissions "perks" for Indians, but it does address some of the misconceptions reflected in this thread and is an interesting and relevant read for anyone who may be interested in learning more about the racial and political components of tribal membership, and the history behind current practices.

http://www.fedbar.org/Publications/The-Federal-Lawyer/Features/Diversely-Native.aspx?FT=.pdf

Very interesting article. Thanks, PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The point was that people don't discriminate against the Am. Indian culture anymore, so yes, I was serious. You, or the other PP, seems to think that because PP's grandfather had to hide his NA ancestry and lose his culture that being 1/8 or 1/16 NA still should allow for special treatment even though they are now middle class. It doesn't.

If, however, a 1/8 or 1/16 NA still lived on a Reservation and was dirt poor, then yes, you should be given some special treatment. But the PP is middle class, so no, you don't get special treatment.

If OP was thinking that checking the NA box would garner some special treatment in a college app, then yes, you probably would. But, I'm guessing that the College would not think that when you check that box that you are 1/16 NA. If you are 1/16 NA, then you should check more than one box.

No, this is the formulation:

My grandfather is 1/2 Cherokee; his father is on the Dawes rolls. Because I can trace my direct ancestry back to someone who was listed on the rolls before 1905, that makes me (1/8) and my kids (1/16) eligible for Cherokee tribal membership, which we have. Some colleges ask on the application if you are Native American. As an enrolled member of the Cherokee nation--even though I look white and was raised in a middle-class household far from Oklahoma--I can truthfully answer "yes" to that question. How the college chooses to use that information is up to their policy. I am not asking for special treatment, but if special treatment is offered, and I meet the qualifications, then I can accept it without guilt. (I don't feel guilt anyhow for the reasons I explained above--government policies destroyed our culture, so I think it's pretty shitty to turn around and use my disconnection from my ethnic heritage as a reason to exclude me from the group, when that is the obvious result of federal policy.) But bottom line--if you object to a college policy that focuses on race to the exclusion of other factors, your beef should be with the college, not me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point was that people don't discriminate against the Am. Indian culture anymore, so yes, I was serious. You, or the other PP, seems to think that because PP's grandfather had to hide his NA ancestry and lose his culture that being 1/8 or 1/16 NA still should allow for special treatment even though they are now middle class. It doesn't.

If, however, a 1/8 or 1/16 NA still lived on a Reservation and was dirt poor, then yes, you should be given some special treatment. But the PP is middle class, so no, you don't get special treatment.

If OP was thinking that checking the NA box would garner some special treatment in a college app, then yes, you probably would. But, I'm guessing that the College would not think that when you check that box that you are 1/16 NA. If you are 1/16 NA, then you should check more than one box.

You must be kidding. (I'm a different PP.)

OK, enlighten me. How do people still discriminate against the NA culture? Are there pockets of the US that are racist or prejudiced against NA? Sure, as there are pockets that are that way towards Asians, Blacks, Hispanics. Should all non Whites have special treatment, even if they are middle class?

Well, for one local example, most people in DC think its acceptable to use a racial slur against Native Americans as the name of a sports team.

This is a political correctness issue, not a racial or cultural prejudice issue. Yes, it's un PC, but most people think that the NA tribal names and such sound pretty cool. That's why a lot of the military uses NA names for their weapons, like the Tomahawk, etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point was that people don't discriminate against the Am. Indian culture anymore, so yes, I was serious. You, or the other PP, seems to think that because PP's grandfather had to hide his NA ancestry and lose his culture that being 1/8 or 1/16 NA still should allow for special treatment even though they are now middle class. It doesn't.

If, however, a 1/8 or 1/16 NA still lived on a Reservation and was dirt poor, then yes, you should be given some special treatment. But the PP is middle class, so no, you don't get special treatment.

If OP was thinking that checking the NA box would garner some special treatment in a college app, then yes, you probably would. But, I'm guessing that the College would not think that when you check that box that you are 1/16 NA. If you are 1/16 NA, then you should check more than one box.

You must be kidding. (I'm a different PP.)

OK, enlighten me. How do people still discriminate against the NA culture? Are there pockets of the US that are racist or prejudiced against NA? Sure, as there are pockets that are that way towards Asians, Blacks, Hispanics. Should all non Whites have special treatment, even if they are middle class?

the fact that you don't distinguish between the significance of words like "redskin" and "tomahawk" just proves my point.

Well, for one local example, most people in DC think its acceptable to use a racial slur against Native Americans as the name of a sports team.

This is a political correctness issue, not a racial or cultural prejudice issue. Yes, it's un PC, but most people think that the NA tribal names and such sound pretty cool. That's why a lot of the military uses NA names for their weapons, like the Tomahawk, etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

However, African Americans are still discriminated against today. Study after study has shown unfair treatment in the legal system. Black people walking in wealthy neighborhoods are always suspected of crimes.

What makes you think NA people aren't discriminated against? Poverty for NAs is the highest of any group. Pine Ridge is a depressing place. NA people are actively discriminated against in any area that they have a large enough population to be noticeable. I have lived in Arizona, South Dakota, and Minnesota. I was deeply shocked to hear the label "Prairie Nigger" tossed around in MN. I was even more shocked by some of the stuff that I heard in AZ. If NA people don't face discrimination on the East Coast or West Coast, it's mostly because they are such a small minority that they are invisible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Native Americans is the right word. Columbus is long dead.

You must not know any American Indians. I spend a lot of time on reservations. You're completely wrong.

I call people what they want to be called. A lot of folks have told me that they prefer "American Indian." Cool with that.

If you don't know what to call people, call them by their actual tribal name. People are Choctaw or Cherokee or Navajo, just like Europeans are German or French or Italian.

[Anonymous]

Gah. "American Indian" is the word used in Supreme Court decisions (there have been many!), and in their individual treaties with the US government. We also have a Bureau of Indian Affairs. Indian is the correct word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, for one local example, most people in DC think its acceptable to use a racial slur against Native Americans as the name of a sports team.

This is a political correctness issue, not a racial or cultural prejudice issue. Yes, it's un PC, but most people think that the NA tribal names and such sound pretty cool. That's why a lot of the military uses NA names for their weapons, like the Tomahawk, etc..

It's not a cultural prejudice issue! It's just about the preconceived ideas of people in the majority about other people's cultures! Or, um, something...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

However, African Americans are still discriminated against today. Study after study has shown unfair treatment in the legal system. Black people walking in wealthy neighborhoods are always suspected of crimes.

What makes you think NA people aren't discriminated against? Poverty for NAs is the highest of any group. Pine Ridge is a depressing place. NA people are actively discriminated against in any area that they have a large enough population to be noticeable. I have lived in Arizona, South Dakota, and Minnesota. I was deeply shocked to hear the label "Prairie Nigger" tossed around in MN. I was even more shocked by some of the stuff that I heard in AZ. If NA people don't face discrimination on the East Coast or West Coast, it's mostly because they are such a small minority that they are invisible.

+1
If you don't think that Indians are discriminated against, you have clearly never lived close to an area with a large Indian population. Indians are discriminated against in getting housing, jobs, etc. They are arrested and racially profiled by the police. Indians have a very high rate of alcoholism and addiction and their life expectancy is much lower than their white counterparts. Honestly, it is heartbreaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point was that people don't discriminate against the Am. Indian culture anymore, so yes, I was serious. You, or the other PP, seems to think that because PP's grandfather had to hide his NA ancestry and lose his culture that being 1/8 or 1/16 NA still should allow for special treatment even though they are now middle class. It doesn't.

If, however, a 1/8 or 1/16 NA still lived on a Reservation and was dirt poor, then yes, you should be given some special treatment. But the PP is middle class, so no, you don't get special treatment.

If OP was thinking that checking the NA box would garner some special treatment in a college app, then yes, you probably would. But, I'm guessing that the College would not think that when you check that box that you are 1/16 NA. If you are 1/16 NA, then you should check more than one box.

No, this is the formulation:

My grandfather is 1/2 Cherokee; his father is on the Dawes rolls. Because I can trace my direct ancestry back to someone who was listed on the rolls before 1905, that makes me (1/8) and my kids (1/16) eligible for Cherokee tribal membership, which we have. Some colleges ask on the application if you are Native American. As an enrolled member of the Cherokee nation--even though I look white and was raised in a middle-class household far from Oklahoma--I can truthfully answer "yes" to that question. How the college chooses to use that information is up to their policy. I am not asking for special treatment, but if special treatment is offered, and I meet the qualifications, then I can accept it without guilt. (I don't feel guilt anyhow for the reasons I explained above--government policies destroyed our culture, so I think it's pretty shitty to turn around and use my disconnection from my ethnic heritage as a reason to exclude me from the group, when that is the obvious result of federal policy.) But bottom line--if you object to a college policy that focuses on race to the exclusion of other factors, your beef should be with the college, not me.

Curious, how far back do we take lineage? I can understand great-great, but how far should this really be taken? If we take it back far enough we're all from Africa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Curious, how far back do we take lineage? I can understand great-great, but how far should this really be taken? If we take it back far enough we're all from Africa.

PP is an enrolled member of the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee nation considers the PP to be Cherokee. Are you saying that you know better than the Cherokee nation about who is a Cherokee?