What kind of perks does Indian heritage give you at schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom's great grandmother was Native American (not sure what that makes me).

Elizabeth Warren?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Yes, you will get admissions preference. Because these great-great-grandchildren are working on overcoming serious obstacles with regard to their educations.

Not that PP. I think you are trying to make a sarcastic point about the fact that what happened three generations ago is not particularly relevant to obstacles faced by the descendants of those Indians. Is that generally correct? This is in fact an incredibly ignorant thing to say. There are 15 federal tribes with unemployment rates over EIGHTY percent. This is unquestionably a relic of being slaughtered on mass, discriminated against, denied educational opportunities, and being relocated to land that was specifically chosen because it was isolated and barren. To not believe that the Federal government's concerted action is directly responsible for the extraordinarily bad economic conditions of current Indian tribes requires either an extraordinary amount of ignorance or willful denial.

Now, if you want to point out that some relatively small percentage of people who are only 1/16th Indian happened to have ancestors who married into more fortunate families several generations ago, that is doubtless true. Of course, Tribes self regulate their membership to some extent to make sure their citizens still have a meaningful connection to the tribe, so those descendants who long ago found better opportunities are often not recognized members to begin with. But in any case, given the actual socioeconomic condition of many Indian tribes, a member of those tribes who has performed well enough in school and on standardized testing to be even a plausible candidate for a top school has in fact done something extraordinary in achieving so much.

If I were on an admissions board of a school, and I had two plausible candidates for admission, one who grew up in Chevy Chase, and one who grew up on a Navajo reservation, I would certainly find the Navajo candidate's achievements more impressive relative to the resources available to him or her. And I say that as a parent of children who will grow up in Chevy Chase.

What about an admissions officer having to decide between a child who grew up in Chevy Chase with no Native American ancestry to one in Chevy Chase who is 1/16 Native American. Is the choice obvious there, too?

No, I don't think it is as obvious. But I also found the OP's question a bit silly and distasteful. I don't think managing to check a box that says you're Native American automatically wins you some free perks like you're using a coupon code on a website or something. I think that admissions officers can and should use an applicant's bacground hollistically as one factor in weighing the merits of a candidate's application.

Often when people get frustrated at the supposed unfairness of admissions policies that benefit disadvantaged groups, it is because they think of it as a perk that the group gets that they don't. That's not what it is. It is a recognition that if two students have a similar track record of achievement and one of them faced more obstacles in achieving those milestones, that students's accomplishments are more impressive, in the same way that if two people run 100 meters in very similar times but one of them also leaped hurdles as she ran, the latter accomplishment is more impressive.

I would agree with you if truly similar track records are being compared. I am not saying that checking the box gives the candidate an automatic leg up, but it does allow the admissions committee more "flexibility" in considering what the achievements are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Many of our ancestors were treated like shit. Mine worked in coal mines and died of black lung long before you could get money for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They immediately set up a home visit and want to learn about your customs. They will totally set you at ease while they extend their visit. They might even tell some more people from the school to come over to your house to visit. They explain that they will educate your kids but it will be in another language. Then slowly but surely they will have you "gift" your house to them and you need to find a new place. Don't worry it will only be two hours away and it's not like they make you leave empty handed, they give will give you blankets to take with you that we're only used once by tsome anti-vax families.

Which school district is that?

Massachusetts, Virgia, New York...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

However, African Americans are still discriminated against today. Study after study has shown unfair treatment in the legal system. Black people walking in wealthy neighborhoods are always suspected of crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Thanks, but I already know about the Trail of Tears. I remember it from my history class in school. What the gov't did to NA as a whole is pretty horrid. Actually, many European colonials did the same thing to the local aboriginals, ie Australia, Canada, etc.

Unfortunately, in our society, how you are treated is based on the color of your skin. So, if you look European, then you would get treated differently, and your opportunities are far wider and better than if you looked 100% Native American.

1st and 2nd generation descendants of Japanese heritage that were interned don't get special treatment either, and yet the impact of what the gov't did to them is much more recent. Same for descendants of slaves.

Now, if the person who is 1/32 still lives on the Reservation and is abjectly poor, like many who live there are, then yes, I would think you get some special treatment because you are poor. But if you are middle class, living in the burbs, then no, I really don't think a person who is 1/32 NA should get any special treatment. Same for a person who is 1/32 Black, middle/upper class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Thanks, but I already know about the Trail of Tears. I remember it from my history class in school. What the gov't did to NA as a whole is pretty horrid. Actually, many European colonials did the same thing to the local aboriginals, ie Australia, Canada, etc.

Unfortunately, in our society, how you are treated is based on the color of your skin. So, if you look European, then you would get treated differently, and your opportunities are far wider and better than if you looked 100% Native American.

1st and 2nd generation descendants of Japanese heritage that were interned don't get special treatment either, and yet the impact of what the gov't did to them is much more recent. Same for descendants of slaves.

Now, if the person who is 1/32 still lives on the Reservation and is abjectly poor, like many who live there are, then yes, I would think you get some special treatment because you are poor. But if you are middle class, living in the burbs, then no, I really don't think a person who is 1/32 NA should get any special treatment. Same for a person who is 1/32 Black, middle/upper class.

That is the point I made earlier. My family is middle class now because my grandfather "passed" as white. We weren't able to inherit our culture because, in the US, it is live-on-a-reservation-in-poverty or...nothing, as there are no significant Native American groups outside of the reservations, while many other ethic and immigrant groups have been able to establish strong cultural groups all over the US. I was separated from my culture by government policies that deliberately destroyed it and a racist society that reinforced it. And now people tell me my ethnicity "doesn't count" because I didn't grow up on a reservation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Many of our ancestors were treated like shit. Mine worked in coal mines and died of black lung long before you could get money for it.

Except we weren't treated like shit when we, you know, were living peacefully on the land we had lived on for thousands of years. It's one thing to come to the US and be treated like shit in exchange for opportunity for your kids. It's another to be here, minding your own business, and have other people show up and kick you off your land and prevent you from practicing your culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Many of our ancestors were treated like shit. Mine worked in coal mines and died of black lung long before you could get money for it.

They worked in coal mines on land stolen from the people who were in North America before 1492.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

However, African Americans are still discriminated against today. Study after study has shown unfair treatment in the legal system. Black people walking in wealthy neighborhoods are always suspected of crimes.

These pissing matches between disadvantaged groups are so stupid. But for the record, most black people do not still live on plantations. Most Indians ARE still stuck on their reservations or in their service areas. I'm not suggesting their plight is worse or that any comparison would not be idiotic. Just that overt racism is not the only thing keeping groups down today. There may well be racist business owners who hate blacks and not Indians, but those owners still aren't moving their plants to the middle of the Arizona dessert to employ Indians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, I don't think greatx2 NA should qualify. That makes you like 1/8? At that point, you don't even look NA.

My great-great-grandparents walked from Tennessee to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears, a forced march instigated by the US Government in which their property was seized and they were made into internal refugees, put in concentration camps, then forced to march a thousand miles, which led to the death of a third of the tribe. It was genocide. If I got a slight admissions advantage because of my native American ancestry (my family has documented our genealogy and registered as Cherokee with the tribe in Tahlequah), I'm not going to feel any guilt.

And you probably wouldn't think my ancestors "looked NA" either....the east coast tribes have intermarried with Europeans since the 1500s and many Cherokee have blue eyes and light skin.

Thanks, but I already know about the Trail of Tears. I remember it from my history class in school. What the gov't did to NA as a whole is pretty horrid. Actually, many European colonials did the same thing to the local aboriginals, ie Australia, Canada, etc.

Unfortunately, in our society, how you are treated is based on the color of your skin. So, if you look European, then you would get treated differently, and your opportunities are far wider and better than if you looked 100% Native American.

1st and 2nd generation descendants of Japanese heritage that were interned don't get special treatment either, and yet the impact of what the gov't did to them is much more recent. Same for descendants of slaves.

Now, if the person who is 1/32 still lives on the Reservation and is abjectly poor, like many who live there are, then yes, I would think you get some special treatment because you are poor. But if you are middle class, living in the burbs, then no, I really don't think a person who is 1/32 NA should get any special treatment. Same for a person who is 1/32 Black, middle/upper class.

That is the point I made earlier. My family is middle class now because my grandfather "passed" as white. We weren't able to inherit our culture because, in the US, it is live-on-a-reservation-in-poverty or...nothing, as there are no significant Native American groups outside of the reservations, while many other ethic and immigrant groups have been able to establish strong cultural groups all over the US. I was separated from my culture by government policies that deliberately destroyed it and a racist society that reinforced it. And now people tell me my ethnicity "doesn't count" because I didn't grow up on a reservation.

If your grandfather passed as white, and you can, too, your NA culture is only a small part of you. The majority of your culture is now what, european/american? Today, there is no discrimination against NA in terms of culture. The gov't nor the public will discriminate against you because of your NA culture. Please feel free to practice it. My kids have learned about NA culture in school, as part of scouts and gone to the American Indian museum. Trust me, people won't discriminate against you.

But, no, your 1/32 or whatever NA part of you doesn't really count in terms of discrimination anymore, and if you are now middle class, you really don't deserve special treatment.

BTW, my kids are biracial, upper/middle class. They don't deserve any special treatment either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem fair that some middle class kid who grew up in a middle class neighborhood, lived a typica Americanl middle class life and had only seen American Indians on TV, gets an advantage in getting into aschool because of his great great great grandmother.

And my point is, if an African American kid meeting your description gets an advantage because five generations ago his ancestors were slaves, then a kid with Native American ancestry should to, because of all the shit the government did to them (which, like Jim Crow, persisted well into the 20th century).

However, African Americans are still discriminated against today. Study after study has shown unfair treatment in the legal system. Black people walking in wealthy neighborhoods are always suspected of crimes.

These pissing matches between disadvantaged groups are so stupid. But for the record, most black people do not still live on plantations. Most Indians ARE still stuck on their reservations or in their service areas. I'm not suggesting their plight is worse or that any comparison would not be idiotic. Just that overt racism is not the only thing keeping groups down today. There may well be racist business owners who hate blacks and not Indians, but those owners still aren't moving their plants to the middle of the Arizona dessert to employ Indians.

But in OP's case, OP is, what 1/16 NA, and I'm assuming middle class. Yea, I don't think that counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If your grandfather passed as white, and you can, too, your NA culture is only a small part of you. The majority of your culture is now what, european/american? Today, there is no discrimination against NA in terms of culture. The gov't nor the public will discriminate against you because of your NA culture. Please feel free to practice it. My kids have learned about NA culture in school, as part of scouts and gone to the American Indian museum. Trust me, people won't discriminate against you.

But, no, your 1/32 or whatever NA part of you doesn't really count in terms of discrimination anymore, and if you are now middle class, you really don't deserve special treatment.

BTW, my kids are biracial, upper/middle class. They don't deserve any special treatment either.

Shorter PP: the fact that your ancestors were the victims of US-government-sponsored genocide is irrelevant.

Even shorter PP: history is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your grandfather passed as white, and you can, too, your NA culture is only a small part of you. The majority of your culture is now what, european/american? Today, there is no discrimination against NA in terms of culture. The gov't nor the public will discriminate against you because of your NA culture. Please feel free to practice it. My kids have learned about NA culture in school, as part of scouts and gone to the American Indian museum. Trust me, people won't discriminate against you.

But, no, your 1/32 or whatever NA part of you doesn't really count in terms of discrimination anymore, and if you are now middle class, you really don't deserve special treatment.

BTW, my kids are biracial, upper/middle class. They don't deserve any special treatment either.

Shorter PP: the fact that your ancestors were the victims of US-government-sponsored genocide is irrelevant.

Even shorter PP: history is irrelevant.

So, should a 1/16 NA who's from a wealthy family have advantages in school/jobs, etc.?