Pamela Geller is nuts

[Anonymous]

Last night there was a knock on the door. Missionaries. Sweet boys, who we thanked for their efforts, but said we were quite happy with or religion. Asked if they were hungry or thirsty. Polite kids, sent on their way with a smile.

ISIS knocks on your door - message is "convert or die". And they say they are doing it in the name of Islam.

It is not we who claim that people murder in the name of Islam - it's what ISIS does, it's what terrorists do. THEY say they are killing in the name of Islam. Who am I and who are any of you to qualify their statement by saying that's NOT the reason they are killing Christians? They say they are. I believe them. It is not Islamophobic to take their word for why they do what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't recall anyone saying she was an advocate for free speech, rather that her right to free speech, even if hateful or provocative, is protected--just like other hateful and provocative groups like Westboro. There is a big difference in claiming someone is an advocate for the 1st amendment and stating they are entitled to its protections. Moreover, supporting her 1st amendment rights is not the same as supporting her message.

Au contraire, many posters in the original thread said that she is standing up for Free Speech. In fact quite a few of them seem to deny that her goal was provocation at all.

I think all of us, liberal and conservative, accept the fact that what
she did is protected speech. What we question, which apparently most of the conservatives do not acknowledge, was that she was engaging in hateful provocation.

Quite the hubris to claim you can ascertain the political affiliation of anonymous posters, unless of course you have a target on the posts of people on your board. Exactly when did free speech be one a conservative vs liberal issue? I guess I thought it was an American issue.

I guess you like being deliberately obtuse. I didn't know that was "American".

There was nothing obtuse in pointing out a direct attempt to label supposed anonymous posters as belonging to one particular party, or for that matter any party and correctly highlighting that free speech isn't a one party issue. Talk about being obtuse...

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:At least we have gained some clarity in this thread. A poster writes:

Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily. Judaism and Christianity embrace morals and values on which modern society is based.

And Geller's supporters weigh in to say the poster is "spot on" and is "100% correct". So, let's not hear any more of the "we are only concerned about 'radical' Islam" hogwash. Not one Geller supporter jumped into to advise the poster that the issue is freedom of expression, not hatred of Islam.

It is perfectly legal and within your rights to be Islamophobes. But, you are no different than anti-Semites, racists, or any other run of the mill bigot. Wrapping yourselves in the 1st Amendment doesn't change that.

Yet posters have clearly stated they would stand behind the RIGHT of those groups to speak--even when it is hateful and offensive. This isn't about agreeing with Geller. It isn't about Islamaphobia. It is about free speech, an issue most Americans hold quite dear and which sets us apart from many parts of the world. Islam, or the radicalized adherents, are no different than any other group that is the subject of such offensive remarks or actions. The difference--they don't feel compelled to murder because they are offended. We cannot give up such an important right because some groups respond in the extreme.

At best, you completely misread my post. At worst, you are another example of the type of of poster that I am criticizing.

If you bothered to read my post, you will notice that I quoted this remark from another poster in this thread:

Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily. Judaism and Christianity embrace morals and values on which modern society is based.

How can you read such a remark and say, this "isn't about Islamaphobia"?

There are plenty of Islamophobes wrapping themselves in the 1st Amendment and suggesting that any criticism of them is an attack on freedom of expression. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I detest what you are saying but defend your right to say it." But, a lot of you leaving out the part about detesting and some are going even further and saying they agree with what Geller says. Even you seem to imply that murdering as a reaction to offense in a Muslim trait. Yet, that is not true of the vast majority of Muslims. If someone is being racist or anti-Semitic, do you react by finding fault with Jews or people of color and blaming the entire religion or race for that acts of those individuals?

Is the bolded statement true or is it not true?

When a Christian kills an abortion doctor, does "Christianity" kill the doctor or does a person who identifies as Christian (someone who is acting in a manner that many other self-identified Christians believe is acting contrary to Christianity) kill the doctor?

"Islam" does not kill gays. "Islam" does not subjugate women. Individuals who identify themselves as Muslims or groups who identify themselves as Muslim may do those things. Other groups and individuals that also identify as Muslim oppose those things.

Can I ask why you asked the question? Did you not really know or did you believe it was true?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:At least we have gained some clarity in this thread. A poster writes:

Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily. Judaism and Christianity embrace morals and values on which modern society is based.

And Geller's supporters weigh in to say the poster is "spot on" and is "100% correct". So, let's not hear any more of the "we are only concerned about 'radical' Islam" hogwash. Not one Geller supporter jumped into to advise the poster that the issue is freedom of expression, not hatred of Islam.

It is perfectly legal and within your rights to be Islamophobes. But, you are no different than anti-Semites, racists, or any other run of the mill bigot. Wrapping yourselves in the 1st Amendment doesn't change that.

Yet posters have clearly stated they would stand behind the RIGHT of those groups to speak--even when it is hateful and offensive. This isn't about agreeing with Geller. It isn't about Islamaphobia. It is about free speech, an issue most Americans hold quite dear and which sets us apart from many parts of the world. Islam, or the radicalized adherents, are no different than any other group that is the subject of such offensive remarks or actions. The difference--they don't feel compelled to murder because they are offended. We cannot give up such an important right because some groups respond in the extreme.

At best, you completely misread my post. At worst, you are another example of the type of of poster that I am criticizing.

If you bothered to read my post, you will notice that I quoted this remark from another poster in this thread:

Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily. Judaism and Christianity embrace morals and values on which modern society is based.

How can you read such a remark and say, this "isn't about Islamaphobia"?

There are plenty of Islamophobes wrapping themselves in the 1st Amendment and suggesting that any criticism of them is an attack on freedom of expression. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I detest what you are saying but defend your right to say it." But, a lot of you leaving out the part about detesting and some are going even further and saying they agree with what Geller says. Even you seem to imply that murdering as a reaction to offense in a Muslim trait. Yet, that is not true of the vast majority of Muslims. If someone is being racist or anti-Semitic, do you react by finding fault with Jews or people of color and blaming the entire religion or race for that acts of those individuals?

Is the bolded statement true or is it not true?

When a Christian kills an abortion doctor, does "Christianity" kill the doctor or does a person who identifies as Christian (someone who is acting in a manner that many other self-identified Christians believe is acting contrary to Christianity) kill the doctor?

"Islam" does not kill gays. "Islam" does not subjugate women. Individuals who identify themselves as Muslims or groups who identify themselves as Muslim may do those things. Other groups and individuals that also identify as Muslim oppose those things.

Can I ask why you asked the question? Did you not really know or did you believe it was true?

I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The number of Christians that kill abortion doctors is how many? More than 10? Less than 10? And it what timespan. What ISIS is doing now does not even compare to Christians killing abortion doctors.

I am not going to argue with them if they say they are doing this in the name of Islam. I am also not going to tolerate being called an Islamophobe because I think they are wrong for doing so. I could call you a Chrstianiphobe or whatever the hell, for saying that Christians kill abortion doctors in the name of Christianity, but I won't, because I would to consider you one.

That's my point. I think it's completely out-of-line for you to gloss over the atrocities committed against women and homosexuals in those countries and at the same time, call people bigots for calling out those atrocities.

[Anonymous]

That's I would not consider you one

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

[Anonymous]

Good grief for anyone to make the declaration that Islam kills gay men is so ignorant they do not even deserve a response.

Bottom line Pamela Gellar is a nutjob whose putting her own life on the line in a very stupid fashion.

I have Moslem neighbors (two families) the loveliest families, and are mortified by what is going on. I would never EVER lump all together, that level of ignorance is frightening!

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Last night there was a knock on the door. Missionaries. Sweet boys, who we thanked for their efforts, but said we were quite happy with or religion. Asked if they were hungry or thirsty. Polite kids, sent on their way with a smile.

ISIS knocks on your door - message is "convert or die". And they say they are doing it in the name of Islam.

It is not we who claim that people murder in the name of Islam - it's what ISIS does, it's what terrorists do. THEY say they are killing in the name of Islam. Who am I and who are any of you to qualify their statement by saying that's NOT the reason they are killing Christians? They say they are. I believe them. It is not Islamophobic to take their word for why they do what they do.[/quote]


When I see that catholic priests are constantly in the news for molesting little children (with little to no outcry from Catholic leadership and Catholic people I know in real life), I don't automatically assume that all Catholics are child molesters or promote pedophilia. I don't assume that their religion condones it (even though it is rampant in their community), I don't look suspiciously at Catholic men as possible child molesters. I don't know why it is so hard for people to make a distinction between a religion and its followers. Same goes with the westboro church. If I judged all Christians on the actions of that group, I would assume that all Christians are vile and hateful and it is the religion of Christianity that is to blame. Is this so? Should we accept the words and claims of radicals and extremists as the representatives of the entire group or are we wise enough to understand that maybe they are perverting a message for their own means? It doesn't take that much to understand that yes, while ISIS claims to be Muslim and is committing hideous acts in the name of
islam, most of their victims are Muslim, the people fighting against them are Muslim. Same with Al Qaeda, same with Taliban, same with every other insane group that claims to be acting in the name of Islam. Maybe instead of looking at the actions of a few crazies, look at the overwhelming majority that are peaceful, law abiding citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

[Anonymous]

I know this is serious, but this is all I can think of when I see the subject line.

Geller sibs dancing

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

Sorry, but they do. The fact you don't see this is scary

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Last night there was a knock on the door. Missionaries. Sweet boys, who we thanked for their efforts, but said we were quite happy with or religion. Asked if they were hungry or thirsty. Polite kids, sent on their way with a smile.

ISIS knocks on your door - message is "convert or die". And they say they are doing it in the name of Islam.

It is not we who claim that people murder in the name of Islam - it's what ISIS does, it's what terrorists do. THEY say they are killing in the name of Islam. Who am I and who are any of you to qualify their statement by saying that's NOT the reason they are killing Christians? They say they are. I believe them. It is not Islamophobic to take their word for why they do what they do.[/quote]


When I see that catholic priests are constantly in the news for molesting little children (with little to no outcry from Catholic leadership and Catholic people I know in real life), I don't automatically assume that all Catholics are child molesters or promote pedophilia. I don't assume that their religion condones it (even though it is rampant in their community), I don't look suspiciously at Catholic men as possible child molesters. I don't know why it is so hard for people to make a distinction between a religion and its followers. Same goes with the westboro church. If I judged all Christians on the actions of that group, I would assume that all Christians are vile and hateful and it is the religion of Christianity that is to blame. Is this so? Should we accept the words and claims of radicals and extremists as the representatives of the entire group or are we wise enough to understand that maybe they are perverting a message for their own means? It doesn't take that much to understand that yes, while ISIS claims to be Muslim and is committing hideous acts in the name of
islam, most of their victims are Muslim, the people fighting against them are Muslim. Same with Al Qaeda, same with Taliban, same with every other insane group that claims to be acting in the name of Islam. Maybe instead of looking at the actions of a few crazies, look at the overwhelming majority that are peaceful, law abiding citizens. [/quote]

The governments of Muslim countries condone the killings of gay men and the subjugating of women. Out governments does not condone pedophelia

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted