Black parent -- does school ranking matter?

[Anonymous]

How did you find your private? Based on the thread, it seems like there's no good public school option, for black children with parents who value education. It seems like the achievement gap is like amber. Sticky.

It is so depressing to me as someone who lives in McLean and is spending a boatload in taxes to possibly face the idea that I need to send my kids to private school so they can be in an environment where their success is fostered and encouraged. Depressing.

[Anonymous]

I'm 9:50 - I definitely don't want the result to be that middle class blacks turn their backs on public schools in good areas, but it does sound like that is what happens for some people.

Maybe more people with good experiences will speak up?

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, I live in PG and have a child in a NW DC independent school. I agree that you should look into private independent schools. The black children at our school are all from well educated families that are commited to their children's academic success. Since this is the norm, no one has any of the negative expectations that unfairly get projected onto minority children in the public school system. Especially if you have a son, it is worth the investment.

[Anonymous]

OP. I wish you luck. No. You should not look solely at ranking. You should look at all the stats for kid like yours and reflect on the personalities of your kids. I know the my kid could not have handled standing out like yours would in some of these schools.

According to my local friends of color (I am white, if it matters) many black families in Arlington choose Wakefield because the school does better by their kids.

I still have a number of black friends from my childhood. They now tell the stories of what it was like to be black in my school back in the day. I had no idea. Totally different school occupying the same space.

Good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I taught in DOD schools with diverse populations. There was no difference in the achievement. Some years, my top kid was white, some years black. I also taught in the projects, there is no comparison. It is socioeconomics, not race.

[Anonymous]

Hey all -

As a parent in the same boat (though we live in DC proper), I did want to share something I read ages ago about the middle class achievement gap. It was in Essence (I don't think it's online) and basically, the premise was that controlling for SES still wasn't enough because of educational *attitudes.* This isn't the way we normally discuss these issues by focusing on being invested in learning, but about the expectations black parents have that schools will provide for most of their child's educational training from 9 - 3 and that we should just trust that the teacher and principal are doing the best thing for our children. The piece argued that due to changes in educational trends (high stakes testing, lower budgets, shifts in who becomes a teacher), that isn't the case any more. It's not that all schools are bad, it's that parents should have a plan for what they want their children to learn and match that against the day to day work. Also, black parents (again, even at highest income levels) are more likely to trust what is happening during the day and less likely to form our own plans for supplementing the in-class education. Black parents were also less likely to utilize things like tutors.

I read this article before I had kids, so I just found it interesting. And a little strange - why shouldn't we trust the places we send our kids? I don't want to micromanage the class room. But now that I have a child (and have talked to older parents who did things like pool money to return arts and language education to their elementary school) I think that instead of plowing all my money to a private, maybe we should find a set of like minded parents in a public or charter and just commit to pooling the costs for tutors or extra camps or musical instruments. Co-op style.

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey all -

As a parent in the same boat (though we live in DC proper), I did want to share something I read ages ago about the middle class achievement gap. It was in Essence (I don't think it's online) and basically, the premise was that controlling for SES still wasn't enough because of educational *attitudes.* This isn't the way we normally discuss these issues by focusing on being invested in learning, but about the expectations black parents have that schools will provide for most of their child's educational training from 9 - 3 and that we should just trust that the teacher and principal are doing the best thing for our children. The piece argued that due to changes in educational trends (high stakes testing, lower budgets, shifts in who becomes a teacher), that isn't the case any more. It's not that all schools are bad, it's that parents should have a plan for what they want their children to learn and match that against the day to day work. Also, black parents (again, even at highest income levels) are more likely to trust what is happening during the day and less likely to form our own plans for supplementing the in-class education. Black parents were also less likely to utilize things like tutors.

I read this article before I had kids, so I just found it interesting. And a little strange - why shouldn't we trust the places we send our kids? I don't want to micromanage the class room. But now that I have a child (and have talked to older parents who did things like pool money to return arts and language education to their elementary school) I think that instead of plowing all my money to a private, maybe we should find a set of like minded parents in a public or charter and just commit to pooling the costs for tutors or extra camps or musical instruments. Co-op style.

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread!

I considered that before I sent my child to private school. However, realistically working full-time, plus commuting any distance, plus making sure homework is done, plus trying to teach my kids outside of school or bring them consistently to tutors, plus having them involved in activities is a lot. I realized to have the time to do all this, I would need to work part-time so my day started at 3pm with the kids, not at 6pm or slightly later. Being able to trust the place that I send my kids isn't naive faith, it's a necessity unless I change my work situation and can deal with the related economic impact.

Some of the positive differences in changing schools besides my children doing better in school is that it is easier to meet other parents including AA parents because the school is smaller. When my kids were in an elementary school of 700 kids, I didn't really get to meet other parents and rarely were we approached for play dates. The other positive change was that I was able to focus more on my job because I wasn't dealing with school issues and in turn I had one of my best years at work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's cute how OP thinks poor kids will harm her childrens' chances to achieve their best. All races are welcome as long as they are of the acceptable SES

Actually, OP was looking for high test scores, or at least test scores of AA students not hugely different from test scores for whites. OP was assuming (perhaps erroneously) that the white kids and AA kids were similar SES. Did you see the test score breakdown for Yorktown posted up thread?

But you can call it cute if you want.

I'm not sure that AA students at Yorktown are mostly high SES. One of the few (maybe the only?) historically black neighborhood in N. Arlington (Hall's Hill area) is quite close to Yorktown and is generally lower SES than surrounding areas.

[Anonymous]

OP thank you so much for this thread.

For those of you at privates which would you recommend for AA and Latino boys? We are in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How far out in VA are you looking? The Post did a feature a few years back about an group of middle-class black families in Loudoun County who came together to advocate for their children and support them in doing well in school. I'm not sure if it's still going on but it seems the group was successful.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/2012/06/13/gJQAnEdZcV_story.html

Amazing article! The parents also used many tactics I see at my DC's K-8 private: study hall after school, high teacher expectations with comments, parent involvement, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How did you find your private? Based on the thread, it seems like there's no good public school option, for black children with parents who value education. It seems like the achievement gap is like amber. Sticky.

It is so depressing to me as someone who lives in McLean and is spending a boatload in taxes to possibly face the idea that I need to send my kids to private school so they can be in an environment where their success is fostered and encouraged. Depressing.

The SAT scores for black students at Langley and McLean last year were well above the national average, but lower than the scores for white and Asian students. I guess you can look at this as a glass half full or half empty, but I think it's unfair to suggest their success wouldn't be fostered and encouraged at those schools. I know for sure that Black graduates of those schools have gone to some fine colleges and universities.

[Anonymous]

One thing to consider is really what tests are telling us:

They are not really IQ tests, they are cultural knowledge tests. They are supposed to be neutral, but I personally don't think that they can be. One of the issues I have seen is that schools that are very focused on progressive education, focus less on content knowledge and more projects feel good reading assignments. These practices are pretty common in this area, I think it often puts kids at a disadvantage especially of lower SES opportunity and sometimes minority students. Different stories and emphasis within our cultural frameworks. Lisa Deplit's article, The Silenced Dialogue is an interesting read http://faculty.washington.edu/rikitiki/tcxg464sp08/Silenced%20Dialogue%20by%20L%20Delpit.pdf

Personally for me, I seek to make sure my children are receiving at school and home a deep base of knowledge in history, science, literature and math. It is the only way I can enable them to engage the wider culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider is really what tests are telling us:

They are not really IQ tests, they are cultural knowledge tests. They are supposed to be neutral, but I personally don't think that they can be. One of the issues I have seen is that schools that are very focused on progressive education, focus less on content knowledge and more projects feel good reading assignments. These practices are pretty common in this area, I think it often puts kids at a disadvantage especially of lower SES opportunity and sometimes minority students. Different stories and emphasis within our cultural frameworks. Lisa Deplit's article, The Silenced Dialogue is an interesting read http://faculty.washington.edu/rikitiki/tcxg464sp08/Silenced%20Dialogue%20by%20L%20Delpit.pdf

Personally for me, I seek to make sure my children are receiving at school and home a deep base of knowledge in history, science, literature and math. It is the only way I can enable them to engage the wider culture.

Very true, it's almost an unspoken norm at many of these progressive schools that your child will get some form of outside tutoring to master the basics, especially in math.

[Anonymous]

That's hard to find. We aren't AA but Latinos (and look stereotypically what people think Latinos look like- brown skin, dark hair and eyes). My husband (who was dressed in a polo shirt and khaki pants) went to pick up our son from his public school that is almost all white/Asian. A kid looked at him and asked him if he was the school custodian because they were out of paper in the bathroom. It is sad that all the teachers are white and the custodian and cafeteria workers are AA or Latinos. It is hard not to be sensitive. When he won a math award at an assembly another mom turned to me and said, "oh wow, did they really just call your son's name?" and then realized it sounded offensive and tried to apologize by saying, "oh, yeah, um, I guess he is smart." I think some teachers have had low expectations at the beginning of they year. His kindergarten teacher told me she was so surprised he could read fluently and didn't realize it until after Halloween. I really think she wouldn't say that to an Asian parent. So I picked a school with a top ranking, but now I am not so sure it was the best choice. We are looking into private schools for middle school and/or high school.

.
I'm a white and grew up in the South, we currently live in the MoCo BCC cluster. I've been shocked at the degree of segregation that exists here. Make no mistake there was racism in the south, but there was definitely more of a racial mix in the middle and upper income brackets.

I can honestly see what the the PP described happening at our elementary school. The only people of color are in the lower income brackets and perform below par, (I work from home and volunteer frequently, I have known some of these kids for years, assisted the reading teacher, and have seen this for myself) . My 8 year old daughter asked me why only the kids with "dark skin" had to be pulled out for reading groups! I was shocked, one of my mom's best friends is AA and our families grew up together, she is like a grandmother to my daughter. It troubles me that she would think dark skinned people as less intelligent, especially because of our familial relationships.

I mentioned this to some of my friends here and they said their kids had asked the same questions. about why kids of color did not seem to know the answers or needed extra help.

Before I get persecuted for living in Bethesda, we are moving out of state next year due to a job transfer. When we moved here we did not have children, proximity to work was our primary goal.

OP your concerns are very valid based on my experience. If I were you I'd stay out of MoCo. It would be great if more AA or Hispanic families moved in, but I would not want to put my child through being the test case.

To the PP Latino poster who wrote about her experiences, I am very sorry you had such negative experiences, it sounds very hurtful and I am sorry that you had to go through that.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting thread. I hadn't thought about it before, but most of the high SES AA families I know do send their kids to private schools.

Doesn't Yorktown have a little island of lower SES families over in Rosslyn? Could that explain the discrepancy in the GS ratings? So it's more tired to SES than race?