Disadvantaged children can hurt achievement of others in their classrooms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charter "diversity" is not the natural mix that would come with an integrated city. It would be much much blacker, browner, poorer, more difficult students, more remediation, more special needs. Charters talking about diversity are communicating "we have a cohort of white students! We have involved parents! We aren't dominated by the needs of the poor!"

Charters need a way to describe their demographics that is not a nasty set of code phrases for "come here if the demographics of DCPS are too much for you." It makes me very unhappy to see a dynamic like that just barely disguised in DC "school choice."

Charters would also need to stop being able to push out students they perceive as difficult with almost zero accountability. That would also go a ways to evening this up. And don't tell me it doesn't happen, it does, ask the Principals of DCPS schools about how many charter students they get enrolling mid-year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh christ - I am an upper middle class white lady who went to school in upper middle class white suburbia. There was PLENTY of wasted time in every classroom of my childhood taken up with pain in the ass kids - WHITE wealthy kids. I constantly had teachers who had to deal with these kids to the detriment of all the other kids. This happens everywhere, not just 90% FARMS schools. I know my story is just an anecdote but we are way over obsessing about how the brown kids harm our little special white snowflakes aren't we! Way to blame the browns though. If only we could get them all out of 1) neighborhood, 2) city, 3) country.

I believe you.Some of they say that their daddy is a lawyer and the teacher will hear from him...

[Anonymous]

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support

Because so much of that expertise has been directed at upper NW for so long that the number of disadvantaged in DC only grows larger?

Because the concentration of quality is so small that the only idea floated by the "experts" is redistribution?

Because public officials can only hear the demands of the wealthy?

Because the DINKs who can afford to stay in the city won't be asking for quality education?

Because your tax dollars can pay for better education now or bloated welfare rolls and overcrowded prisons later?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charter "diversity" is not the natural mix that would come with an integrated city. It would be much much blacker, browner, poorer, more difficult students, more remediation, more special needs. Charters talking about diversity are communicating "we have a cohort of white students! We have involved parents! We aren't dominated by the needs of the poor!"

Charters need a way to describe their demographics that is not a nasty set of code phrases for "come here if the demographics of DCPS are too much for you." It makes me very unhappy to see a dynamic like that just barely disguised in DC "school choice."

That is completely wrong, as the numbers show that DC charters typically have far more economic and racial diversity than typical DCPS neighborhood school does. Many charters are Title I and most have a demographically correct proportion of special needs students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support

Because so much of that expertise has been directed at upper NW for so long that the number of disadvantaged in DC only grows larger?

Because the concentration of quality is so small that the only idea floated by the "experts" is redistribution?

Because public officials can only hear the demands of the wealthy?

Because the DINKs who can afford to stay in the city won't be asking for quality education?

Because your tax dollars can pay for better education now or bloated welfare rolls and overcrowded prisons later?

X 1000!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter "diversity" is not the natural mix that would come with an integrated city. It would be much much blacker, browner, poorer, more difficult students, more remediation, more special needs. Charters talking about diversity are communicating "we have a cohort of white students! We have involved parents! We aren't dominated by the needs of the poor!"

Charters need a way to describe their demographics that is not a nasty set of code phrases for "come here if the demographics of DCPS are too much for you." It makes me very unhappy to see a dynamic like that just barely disguised in DC "school choice."

That is completely wrong, as the numbers show that DC charters typically have far more economic and racial diversity than typical DCPS neighborhood school does. Many charters are Title I and most have a demographically correct proportion of special needs students.

Yeah, that poster doesn't seem to have a handle on the DC Charter School scene at all. It's funny when people let there bias dictate what facts they ignore and what they make up in their own minds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support

Because so much of that expertise has been directed at upper NW for so long that the number of disadvantaged in DC only grows larger?

Because the concentration of quality is so small that the only idea floated by the "experts" is redistribution?

Because public officials can only hear the demands of the wealthy?

Because the DINKs who can afford to stay in the city won't be asking for quality education?

Because your tax dollars can pay for better education now or bloated welfare rolls and overcrowded prisons later?

I'm not sure I'd agree with the suggestion that expertise or quality is in NW - those schools have no special magic or extra DCPS resources - primarily the difference is that they have a lot of involved parents. As for listening to demands of the wealthy - I don't think they do, else we wouldn't have all the overcrowding in those schools, the unmet demands which push wealthier families to charters, privates or the suburbs, or these cockamamie boundary proposals being floated around. However I do agree with the remainder of your statements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Knee jerk accusations of discrimination and racism get us absolutely nowhere. Especially considering that the AA middle class families in DC make schools choices almost identically to the way white middle class families do. Racism is not an issue here.

+1

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why my BF in MoCo is pulling her kid out of MCPS. 90%+ of the school is FARMS and her son cannot take anything advanced thanks to 2.0. He now takes all courses with mostly english as a second language students and learns nothing.

But hey, we cannot hurt any parents' feelings - we must all live in our utopian fantasy in MoCo, all join hands in the classroom and sing kumbayaa, and if nobody learns anything, who cares. At least everyone gets equal instruction. Learning isnt important.

Tell her to move across the county if she doesn't want her child in classes with poor Hispanic children

Actually it would probably be beneficial if parents had to show proof of citizenship or paid income taxes in order to enroll kids, but they don't. My friend teaches in a school that is almost a complete drain on the system because all the kids are non-citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why my BF in MoCo is pulling her kid out of MCPS. 90%+ of the school is FARMS and her son cannot take anything advanced thanks to 2.0. He now takes all courses with mostly english as a second language students and learns nothing.

But hey, we cannot hurt any parents' feelings - we must all live in our utopian fantasy in MoCo, all join hands in the classroom and sing kumbayaa, and if nobody learns anything, who cares. At least everyone gets equal instruction. Learning isnt important.

Tell her to move across the county if she doesn't want her child in classes with poor Hispanic children

Actually it would probably be beneficial if parents had to show proof of citizenship or paid income taxes in order to enroll kids, but they don't. My friend teaches in a school that is almost a complete drain on the system because all the kids are non-citizens.

How do you and your teacher friend know that "all" of the kids are non-citizens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually it would probably be beneficial if parents had to show proof of citizenship or paid income taxes in order to enroll kids, but they don't. My friend teaches in a school that is almost a complete drain on the system because all the kids are non-citizens.

How do you and your teacher friend know that "all" of the kids are non-citizens?

exactly...is it because of their looks? their surnames?

[Anonymous]

Children of "non citizens" are almost always citizens due to their birth in the United States. Maybe not your kind of citizen is what you mean.

If immigrants were dragging down this country we'd have been a third-world basket case for our entire existence.

If you think educating poor immigrants' children is a waste, just imagine what you get by not educating them.

Also, Plyler v. Doe means compulsory-age education regardless of background or citizenship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually it would probably be beneficial if parents had to show proof of citizenship or paid income taxes in order to enroll kids, but they don't. My friend teaches in a school that is almost a complete drain on the system because all the kids are non-citizens.

How do you and your teacher friend know that "all" of the kids are non-citizens?

exactly...is it because of their looks? their surnames?

Education is a public good, it is good for everyone that our population is educated regardless of citizenship. I see a value in ensuring that families are going to school in the correct district (where they live) but none In withholding educational services due to either citizenship or homelessness. None of that is the fault of the child and none of us will be better off if we miss an opportunity to educate a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support

Because so much of that expertise has been directed at upper NW for so long that the number of disadvantaged in DC only grows larger?

Because the concentration of quality is so small that the only idea floated by the "experts" is redistribution?

Because public officials can only hear the demands of the wealthy?

Because the DINKs who can afford to stay in the city won't be asking for quality education?

Because your tax dollars can pay for better education now or bloated welfare rolls and overcrowded prisons later?

I'm not sure I'd agree with the suggestion that expertise or quality is in NW - those schools have no special magic or extra DCPS resources - primarily the difference is that they have a lot of involved parents. As for listening to demands of the wealthy - I don't think they do, else we wouldn't have all the overcrowding in those schools, the unmet demands which push wealthier families to charters, privates or the suburbs, or these cockamamie boundary proposals being floated around. However I do agree with the remainder of your statements.

It's ironic, but I'm starting to see this "involved parents" motif as perhaps the weakest aspect of DCPS policy. I promise you that there are committed, involved, squeaky-wheel parents ALL OVER this city. If DCPS were more equitable in the attention and resources, maybe those parents wouldn't be overcrowding your school. I'd even say they need to invert the spending level for wards and send more EOTP and EOTR, where the population of school aged kids is higher, the needs are greater, and no one is threatening to move if they don't get exactly what they want.

If involved, wealthy parents are all that's needed, then you won't miss the funds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support

Because so much of that expertise has been directed at upper NW for so long that the number of disadvantaged in DC only grows larger?

Because the concentration of quality is so small that the only idea floated by the "experts" is redistribution?

Because public officials can only hear the demands of the wealthy?

Because the DINKs who can afford to stay in the city won't be asking for quality education?

Because your tax dollars can pay for better education now or bloated welfare rolls and overcrowded prisons later?

I'm not sure I'd agree with the suggestion that expertise or quality is in NW - those schools have no special magic or extra DCPS resources - primarily the difference is that they have a lot of involved parents. As for listening to demands of the wealthy - I don't think they do, else we wouldn't have all the overcrowding in those schools, the unmet demands which push wealthier families to charters, privates or the suburbs, or these cockamamie boundary proposals being floated around. However I do agree with the remainder of your statements.

It's ironic, but I'm starting to see this "involved parents" motif as perhaps the weakest aspect of DCPS policy. I promise you that there are committed, involved, squeaky-wheel parents ALL OVER this city. If DCPS were more equitable in the attention and resources, maybe those parents wouldn't be overcrowding your school. I'd even say they need to invert the spending level for wards and send more EOTP and EOTR, where the population of school aged kids is higher, the needs are greater, and no one is threatening to move if they don't get exactly what they want.

If involved, wealthy parents are all that's needed, then you won't miss the funds.

The assertion keeps being made that DCPS is spending more at those "sought after" schools - where is the hard data to back that up? In fact when I look at individual yearly school budgets I see things like this:

Janney ES $4.5m budget 599 enrolled works out to $7500 per student
Amidon ES $2.9m budget 293 enrolled works out to $9800 per student

So how are you basing your judgement that somehow the "sought after" schools like JKLMs are somehow getting more money, attention and resources from DCPS? What numbers are you using?

The flipside of it is that in those "sought after" schools, the parents themselves spend a lot of money toward activities, amenities and extracurriculars. That, however, is not DCPS money and you can't count that as a function of DCPS resources, policy or spending.