Disadvantaged children can hurt achievement of others in their classrooms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is interesting because it seems to have drawn anxious posts from parents in MoCo AND in DC. Both sets of parents seem to think the study applies to their situation. What say you, angry VA parents???

Why would I be angry? My snowflake DD attends a high FARMS, high minority population school. We just don't have the social dysfunction you find in the ghetto schools in DC. The immigrant kids populating our school all come from stable, if poor, families that want their kids to have a good education. I see it in the PTA meetings and I see it in the respect and discipline of the kids for their teachers and each other,

Powell? Are you one of the handful of white PS3 families who bought in Brightwood and chose Powell for the next 24 months, at most? Felicitaciones!

Step off lady, you don't know us or our commitment to our school community. Bring your negativity elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people think it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and to still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students in a school---on everyone in that school. So far many posters don't seem able to think to that level of subtlety.

Oh yeah, that's understood.

The problem is making that your only argument and making it only on behalf of those who aren't disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Actually, you are making incorrect assumptions. I believe that what is best in the big picture for the disadvantaged children in DCPS is a robust, healthy and well-run school system. I believe a large part of creating that is having large numbers of middle and upper class families engaged in the school system. When I make an argument against a student assignment policy that is predicated solely on the redistribution of middle class families throughout the system, I do so not for the benefit of those middle class families or my own kids, but for the outcome such a hamfisted policy would have on the entire system which would end up with a worse outcome for the disadvantaged kids.

Just because people don't agree with the way you think things should be doesn't mean that their core motivations are different from yours. An open mind would help you enormously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, you are making incorrect assumptions. I believe that what is best in the big picture for the disadvantaged children in DCPS is a robust, healthy and well-run school system. I believe a large part of creating that is having large numbers of middle and upper class families engaged in the school system. When I make an argument against a student assignment policy that is predicated solely on the redistribution of middle class families throughout the system, I do so not for the benefit of those middle class families or my own kids, but for the outcome such a hamfisted policy would have on the entire system which would end up with a worse outcome for the disadvantaged kids.

Just because people don't agree with the way you think things should be doesn't mean that their core motivations are different from yours. An open mind would help you enormously.

Mine is the post before yours. Are you talking to me?

If so, show me the redistribution policy or reconsider whence the assumptions are coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is interesting because it seems to have drawn anxious posts from parents in MoCo AND in DC. Both sets of parents seem to think the study applies to their situation. What say you, angry VA parents???

Why would I be angry? My snowflake DD attends a high FARMS, high minority population school. We just don't have the social dysfunction you find in the ghetto schools in DC. The immigrant kids populating our school all come from stable, if poor, families that want their kids to have a good education. I see it in the PTA meetings and I see it in the respect and discipline of the kids for their teachers and each other,

Powell? Are you one of the handful of white PS3 families who bought in Brightwood and chose Powell for the next 24 months, at most? Felicitaciones!

+1. These people are the ones that slink off when they get a better offer from a charter and/or luck out with DCPS in the lottery.

We are one. Early elementary and elementary in DCPS is acceptable for most middle class families. Get back to us when you are looking at middle and high schools and it's not Deal/Wilson/SWW or Latin, Basis, DCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do people think it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and to still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students in a school---on everyone in that school. So far many posters don't seem able to think to that level of subtlety.

The point is, public school systems have a responsibility to effectively educate (to the best of their ability) the "disadvantaged" students too, as well as everyone else. Yes, I think most people understand the impact of a high number of kids whose disadvantage is known because of behavioral or academic struggles. But now what? Posts like yours seem to somehow indicate that impact on other students somehow means disadvantaged students cannot be integrated for exactly that reason.

So what is supposed to happen to them? Speaking plainly, most of you just don't f'in care what happens to them, you just don't want them in your school with your kids. But for those tasked with actually educating all kids in the DC public school system, the fact that you don't care doesn't let anyone off the hook (nor should it) for the disadvantaged kids you are trying to keep in low % in your school.

So to answer your question PP, yes, it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students. So NOW WHAT? DC has high numbers of disadvantaged students. They need to have the best shot DCPS and PCSB can give them to educate them. That may mean long term plans to spread them out more across the district as students. Or, maybe there are other solutions. But "Don't you know what impact that will have on other students" all by itself is NOT an answer. Disadvantaged students and their educational needs don't just disappear because you feel their presence in much bigger numbers will bring your student down. What's your alternative proposal that still actually educates disadvantaged students?

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that disadvantaged children can be successfully educated without a widespread plan for Socio-economic integration? I think many charter schools have answered that it IS possible.

If DC had the necessary demographics to create schools where disadvantaged students were the minority in every school I would be al for that kind of redistribution. But we don't have those numbers and we have a hard enough time as it is keeping middle class and educationally focused families in the system.

Posters insistence that people don't give a **** about the poor because they want to avoid high-poverty schools for their own kids is tiresome and non-sensical. Reserving a number of slots in non-poverty schools is fine. I am all for it. But given the numbers in DC it is a feel-good measure that will benefit a tiny number of students whose parents have it together enough to enter a lottery. The charter movement has done a much better job of offering alternatives to failing neighborhood schools and on a much larger scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people think it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and to still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students in a school---on everyone in that school. So far many posters don't seem able to think to that level of subtlety.

The point is, public school systems have a responsibility to effectively educate (to the best of their ability) the "disadvantaged" students too, as well as everyone else. Yes, I think most people understand the impact of a high number of kids whose disadvantage is known because of behavioral or academic struggles. But now what? Posts like yours seem to somehow indicate that impact on other students somehow means disadvantaged students cannot be integrated for exactly that reason.

So what is supposed to happen to them? Speaking plainly, most of you just don't f'in care what happens to them, you just don't want them in your school with your kids. But for those tasked with actually educating all kids in the DC public school system, the fact that you don't care doesn't let anyone off the hook (nor should it) for the disadvantaged kids you are trying to keep in low % in your school.

So to answer your question PP, yes, it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students. So NOW WHAT? DC has high numbers of disadvantaged students. They need to have the best shot DCPS and PCSB can give them to educate them. That may mean long term plans to spread them out more across the district as students. Or, maybe there are other solutions. But "Don't you know what impact that will have on other students" all by itself is NOT an answer. Disadvantaged students and their educational needs don't just disappear because you feel their presence in much bigger numbers will bring your student down. What's your alternative proposal that still actually educates disadvantaged students?

Your post is going to get crickets, so let me just say +1 and THANK YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that disadvantaged children can be successfully educated without a widespread plan for Socio-economic integration? I think many charter schools have answered that it IS possible.

If DC had the necessary demographics to create schools where disadvantaged students were the minority in every school I would be al for that kind of redistribution. But we don't have those numbers and we have a hard enough time as it is keeping middle class and educationally focused families in the system.

Posters insistence that people don't give a **** about the poor because they want to avoid high-poverty schools for their own kids is tiresome and non-sensical. Reserving a number of slots in non-poverty schools is fine. I am all for it. But given the numbers in DC it is a feel-good measure that will benefit a tiny number of students whose parents have it together enough to enter a lottery. The charter movement has done a much better job of offering alternatives to failing neighborhood schools and on a much larger scale.

So much focus and fear on redistribution. That's what's tiresome and nonsensical.

The charter movement IS redistribution. Can we get off of that and look at how to bring the element of quality instruction to DCPS? Please don't come back with "reduce the number of disadvantaged kids."

[Anonymous]

Please, let's. I wish we would. Chatter about socio economic integration in DC as a solution to its educational failures is a distraction. Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people think it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and to still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students in a school---on everyone in that school. So far many posters don't seem able to think to that level of subtlety.

The point is, public school systems have a responsibility to effectively educate (to the best of their ability) the "disadvantaged" students too, as well as everyone else. Yes, I think most people understand the impact of a high number of kids whose disadvantage is known because of behavioral or academic struggles. But now what? Posts like yours seem to somehow indicate that impact on other students somehow means disadvantaged students cannot be integrated for exactly that reason.

So what is supposed to happen to them? Speaking plainly, most of you just don't f'in care what happens to them, you just don't want them in your school with your kids. But for those tasked with actually educating all kids in the DC public school system, the fact that you don't care doesn't let anyone off the hook (nor should it) for the disadvantaged kids you are trying to keep in low % in your school.

So to answer your question PP, yes, it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students. So NOW WHAT? DC has high numbers of disadvantaged students. They need to have the best shot DCPS and PCSB can give them to educate them. That may mean long term plans to spread them out more across the district as students. Or, maybe there are other solutions. But "Don't you know what impact that will have on other students" all by itself is NOT an answer. Disadvantaged students and their educational needs don't just disappear because you feel their presence in much bigger numbers will bring your student down. What's your alternative proposal that still actually educates disadvantaged students?

Your post is going to get crickets, so let me just say +1 and THANK YOU.

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Might as well do it right:

George Wallace:
I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

And a shocking number of lefty-but-well-off DCUM readers are living this dream at either private or suburban schools. Which I think is fine, except when they feel the need to posture and preen out of guilt.

[Anonymous]

Charter "diversity" is not the natural mix that would come with an integrated city. It would be much much blacker, browner, poorer, more difficult students, more remediation, more special needs. Charters talking about diversity are communicating "we have a cohort of white students! We have involved parents! We aren't dominated by the needs of the poor!"

Charters need a way to describe their demographics that is not a nasty set of code phrases for "come here if the demographics of DCPS are too much for you." It makes me very unhappy to see a dynamic like that just barely disguised in DC "school choice."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that disadvantaged children can be successfully educated without a widespread plan for Socio-economic integration? I think many charter schools have answered that it IS possible.

If DC had the necessary demographics to create schools where disadvantaged students were the minority in every school I would be al for that kind of redistribution. But we don't have those numbers and we have a hard enough time as it is keeping middle class and educationally focused families in the system.

Posters insistence that people don't give a **** about the poor because they want to avoid high-poverty schools for their own kids is tiresome and non-sensical. Reserving a number of slots in non-poverty schools is fine. I am all for it. But given the numbers in DC it is a feel-good measure that will benefit a tiny number of students whose parents have it together enough to enter a lottery. The charter movement has done a much better job of offering alternatives to failing neighborhood schools and on a much larger scale.

You're missing it - the reason it's totally reasonable to assume people don't give a shit about disadvantaged students is, most people's arguments against any proposals like this is "But that would negatively impact my kid. So no." and that's it. It is WHOLLY reasonable to assume that every post that ends htere is because the person doesn't really care that this is a conversation about trying to figure out how to effectively educate those who have been most left behind academically, since (lack of gifted programs notwithstanding) DC does a decent job of educating everyone else.

So no, not tiresome or non-sensical, unless at the same time that someone says "No, this would be bad for us" they also say "How about this idea instead?" You only show you give a shit if you actually acknowledge it's important and participate in trying to think of other solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people think it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and to still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students in a school---on everyone in that school. So far many posters don't seem able to think to that level of subtlety.

The point is, public school systems have a responsibility to effectively educate (to the best of their ability) the "disadvantaged" students too, as well as everyone else. Yes, I think most people understand the impact of a high number of kids whose disadvantage is known because of behavioral or academic struggles. But now what? Posts like yours seem to somehow indicate that impact on other students somehow means disadvantaged students cannot be integrated for exactly that reason.

So what is supposed to happen to them? Speaking plainly, most of you just don't f'in care what happens to them, you just don't want them in your school with your kids. But for those tasked with actually educating all kids in the DC public school system, the fact that you don't care doesn't let anyone off the hook (nor should it) for the disadvantaged kids you are trying to keep in low % in your school.

So to answer your question PP, yes, it is possible to not be "anti-poor" and still understand the impact of high numbers of disadvantaged students. So NOW WHAT? DC has high numbers of disadvantaged students. They need to have the best shot DCPS and PCSB can give them to educate them. That may mean long term plans to spread them out more across the district as students. Or, maybe there are other solutions. But "Don't you know what impact that will have on other students" all by itself is NOT an answer. Disadvantaged students and their educational needs don't just disappear because you feel their presence in much bigger numbers will bring your student down. What's your alternative proposal that still actually educates disadvantaged students?

Your post is going to get crickets, so let me just say +1 and THANK YOU.

Why on earth is it parents responsibility to come up with solutions to educating the poor and disadvantaged in DC. Let our well-informed, public officials with access to experts and consultants and law firms come up with some ideas and we can support.

Oh, goody, then you won't be huffing and puffing and screaming when politicians can't think of another alternative that doesn't mean EVERYONE has to give up something. Because that's how we got there on DCUM, all the "No, because that doesn't work for me". Ok, well if we're going to make policy based on how much something does NOT work for someone, and by numbers, then no one here should have ANY problem wtih a public school system wholly focused on the needs of disadvantaged kids, since this REALLY is not working for them and they have greater numbers in the public school system.

You all are such hypocrites. You want everyone to pay attention and change the plans when it doesn't suit you, but you can't be bothered to help think of other solutions but you sure as hell want all plans to cease when YOUR situation would be negatively impacted.