To what extent is race a factor in HGC admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, perhaps it's gender then?

I don't think that the previous illustrates that gender is a deciding factor, I think an important factor is the teacher recommendation. I have heard many times of a kid with high scores being tanked by a teacher rec -- about teachers who "don"t believe" in giftedness and thus won't write a rec or won't write a good rec, or teacher's deciding another child deserves a slot 'more" and says so in the rec., etc. I also see many times in the classroom in general when teachers miss a bright child, because that bright child isn't docile and obedient and a teacher's pet (which probably affects boys more than girls).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, perhaps it's gender then?

I don't think that the previous illustrates that gender is a deciding factor, I think an important factor is the teacher recommendation. I have heard many times of a kid with high scores being tanked by a teacher rec -- about teachers who "don"t believe" in giftedness and thus won't write a rec or won't write a good rec, or teacher's deciding another child deserves a slot 'more" and says so in the rec., etc. I also see many times in the classroom in general when teachers miss a bright child, because that bright child isn't docile and obedient and a teacher's pet (which probably affects boys more than girls).

I can't imagine that my child got a favorable recommendation. I think the test is the main factor. As it should be, in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Teacher/school counselor recommendation (mostly, whether the particular student's academic needs can/cannot be met at the feeder school) is a huge factor in selecting among students from the same feeder school who have comparable test scores because any particular HGC is simply not going to take 10 students from a single feeder school even if those students' test scores are higher than those of students at any of the other feeder schools. In other words, if only 2-3 third-graders from one school make the cut, then the teacher recommendation won't have nearly as much impact (unless it's decidedly unfavorable) as it would if 4 or more students are equally "qualified" for HGC selection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They said that at the margins they occasionally take gender into account. There is no evidence that they take race into account.

Who is "they"? Who said this, in what context, where?

When I attened the open house this year for admitted students an MCPS rep was there. Someone asked about gender balancing and whether gender was a factor in admissions. She said that generally it's not a factor, but it can occassionally be a factor for admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would doubt that it is... If that quotas were used the population of the programs would not look like they do.

Wrong. Quotas are being used however the population of the programs look the way it is because there are not enough candidates from some communities to fill the slots. The majority of applicants are Whites and Asians and among them the competition is stiff.

I have seen less than average performing Hispanic and African American kids taken in from schools where higher performing Whites and Asians have been denied. However, this is a disservice to both the kids who have been accepted and kids who have not been accepted . I have seen "quota" kids struggling in HGC and GT programs and becoming discouraged.

The reason for this (some communities not doing well in these programs), is that to do well in the HGC and GT programs the kids need parents/tutors to help them at home. Asians and Whites have this "parallel system of education" in place at home. Most of the HGC parents are highly educated themselves and very involved with the education of their kids, intervening when required. So to expect that the kid will do well without a support system at home is unreal.

Other communities not being proportionately represented is a function of lack of support at home rather than intelligence of the kids.

MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

Please present your proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

Please present your proof.

Proof can only be anecdotal from other parents/teachers (or those observed by myself in MCPS classrooms) because where MCPS is concerned there is very little transparency. Let them show the report cards, admissions results and race statistics - and that should be the proof.

Having said that - let me clarify that the African-Americans and Hispanics kids from educated middle class families do as well as Whites and Asians from educated middle class families.

I am an Asian, I have accepted the fact that my kids will be working very hard to get ahead in life because of the fact that merit is not the only factor in admissions. The legacy of discrimination and slavery continues to have repercussions even from actions that want to rectify the original injustice. MCPS is not alone in what they are doing - it is a common practice all over USA , not only in schools but colleges as well.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21576658-first-three-pieces-race-based-preferences-around-world-we-look-americas

[Anonymous]

No. You are saying that the MCPS admissions procedures for HGCs are:

1. Admit anybody who applies who is black or Hispanic.
2. Then have competitive admissions for the rest.

This goes well beyond the assertion that race is a factor in HGC admissions -- which you could support by saying that in your anecdotal experience, you have seen [something]. (Though I don't know what.)

You are saying that MCPS admits black and Hispanic children to the HGCs solely because they are black or Hispanic. And furthermore that MCPS does this while denying that they do this. If you make this kind of specific assertion, you must back it up with specific proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would doubt that it is... If that quotas were used the population of the programs would not look like they do.

Wrong. Quotas are being used however the population of the programs look the way it is because there are not enough candidates from some communities to fill the slots. The majority of applicants are Whites and Asians and among them the competition is stiff.

I have seen less than average performing Hispanic and African American kids taken in from schools where higher performing Whites and Asians have been denied. However, this is a disservice to both the kids who have been accepted and kids who have not been accepted . I have seen "quota" kids struggling in HGC and GT programs and becoming discouraged.

The reason for this (some communities not doing well in these programs), is that to do well in the HGC and GT programs the kids need parents/tutors to help them at home. Asians and Whites have this "parallel system of education" in place at home. Most of the HGC parents are highly educated themselves and very involved with the education of their kids, intervening when required. So to expect that the kid will do well without a support system at home is unreal.

Other communities not being proportionately represented is a function of lack of support at home rather than intelligence of the kids.

MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

FWIW, I don't see this happening at all at our magnet. There were almost no black or hispanic kids in my DC's elementary HGC magnet class. There were a few biracial kids of high SES status. Not one poor person (as far as I could tell).

If MCPS is using race in the way that you describe, they are failing spectacularly. At our school most of the minority and non-English speakers are left to languish in the low reading groups and given worthless special ed services. The middle school magnets are far more diverse, and I am thankful for that. Again, FWIW, every person who my DC has gotten to know in the MS magnet is more than qualified for the seat, regardless of race or ethnicity.

It has not been our experience that kids need parental help to do well in the magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

Please present your proof.

Proof can only be anecdotal from other parents/teachers (or those observed by myself in MCPS classrooms) because where MCPS is concerned there is very little transparency. Let them show the report cards, admissions results and race statistics - and that should be the proof.

Having said that - let me clarify that the African-Americans and Hispanics kids from educated middle class families do as well as Whites and Asians from educated middle class families.

I am an Asian, I have accepted the fact that my kids will be working very hard to get ahead in life because of the fact that merit is not the only factor in admissions. The legacy of discrimination and slavery continues to have repercussions even from actions that want to rectify the original injustice. MCPS is not alone in what they are doing - it is a common practice all over USA , not only in schools but colleges as well.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21576658-first-three-pieces-race-based-preferences-around-world-we-look-americas

You need to drop the victim mentality and just get on with your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would doubt that it is... If that quotas were used the population of the programs would not look like they do.

Wrong. Quotas are being used however the population of the programs look the way it is because there are not enough candidates from some communities to fill the slots. The majority of applicants are Whites and Asians and among them the competition is stiff.

I have seen less than average performing Hispanic and African American kids taken in from schools where higher performing Whites and Asians have been denied. However, this is a disservice to both the kids who have been accepted and kids who have not been accepted . I have seen "quota" kids struggling in HGC and GT programs and becoming discouraged.

The reason for this (some communities not doing well in these programs), is that to do well in the HGC and GT programs the kids need parents/tutors to help them at home. Asians and Whites have this "parallel system of education" in place at home. Most of the HGC parents are highly educated themselves and very involved with the education of their kids, intervening when required. So to expect that the kid will do well without a support system at home is unreal.

Other communities not being proportionately represented is a function of lack of support at home rather than intelligence of the kids.

MCPS will take any "C" student from these low performing communities if they only apply. Whatever seats are then left are thrown in the pool for the Whites and Asians, and there the competition is fierce.

This entire post is BS! And this "I have seen, etc...." is insulting. Whenever you use that as your standard of proof, you lose credibility.