To what extent is race a factor in HGC admissions?

[Anonymous]

If race is truly not an issue, then MCPS should release scores of admitted students by race and it should be clear from the numbers. However, they have declined to do this despite freedom of information act requests by media/bloggers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If race is truly not an issue, then MCPS should release scores of admitted students by race and it should be clear from the numbers. However, they have declined to do this despite freedom of information act requests by media/bloggers.

No, it would still not be clear from the numbers -- as long as there are people who believe that anybody who is black or Hispanic and got into [insert competitive academic program here] must have gotten in because of their race/ethnicity. And are there such people? Evidently, given what the OP said.

Also, the relevant law in Maryland is the Public Information Act. The Freedom of Information Act is federal law and applies to federal records. Also, the PIA doesn't say that agencies have to provide information that people ask for. It says that agencies have to provide public records that people ask for, with exceptions for certain categories of public records (including student records).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If race is truly not an issue, then MCPS should release scores of admitted students by race and it should be clear from the numbers. However, they have declined to do this despite freedom of information act requests by media/bloggers.

Since admittance is not strictly based on score things would not be any clearer. They would have to have some way to weight grades, recommendations, etc. then report all of this together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If race is truly not an issue, then MCPS should release scores of admitted students by race and it should be clear from the numbers. However, they have declined to do this despite freedom of information act requests by media/bloggers.

... Also, the relevant law in Maryland is the Public Information Act. The Freedom of Information Act is federal law and applies to federal records. Also, the PIA doesn't say that agencies have to provide information that people ask for. It says that agencies have to provide public records that people ask for, with exceptions for certain categories of public records (including student records).

New poster here. I am interested in the FOIA/PIA requests, and in MCPS's responses. Here is the Maryland PIA: http://www.oag.state.md.us/Opengov/pia.htm

I can see how records of individual students would be withheld, but I don't see how MCPS could justify withholding general statistics about the HCG population, such as racial % and scores. Can anyone point me to where media/bloggers discussed their requests for this info and MCPS's response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get so ticked off for the kids who are in the racial minority that people like OP (and like the Rosenfelds) think they are undeserving of the spots at these programs. What century is this?

Well, quite honestly until they remove these kinds preferences based on race in other admission programs you're going to continue to see this kind of second guessing.

You're actually upset because a handful of AA kids made the cut?! You'll do your kid a disservice by making him/her believe they've been a victim here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get so ticked off for the kids who are in the racial minority that people like OP (and like the Rosenfelds) think they are undeserving of the spots at these programs. What century is this?

Well, quite honestly until they remove these kinds preferences based on race in other admission programs you're going to continue to see this kind of second guessing.

That might be true but hopefully it is now crystal clear that race is not a factor in the HGC elem. programs or in the Eastern and Takoma Park middle school magnet programs. The test scores are important but they do look at teacher recs. and in the case of the middle school apps. the student's essays and application form to make sure the program is appropriate for the child. A student might be bright but might not enjoy writing/ project work or have a hard time managing the work load for reasons related to their organizational or study skills .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get so ticked off for the kids who are in the racial minority that people like OP (and like the Rosenfelds) think they are undeserving of the spots at these programs. What century is this?

Well, quite honestly until they remove these kinds preferences based on race in other admission programs you're going to continue to see this kind of second guessing.

You're actually upset because a handful of AA kids made the cut?! You'll do your kid a disservice by making him/her believe they've been a victim here.

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

[Anonymous]

They said that at the margins they occasionally take gender into account. There is no evidence that they take race into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get so ticked off for the kids who are in the racial minority that people like OP (and like the Rosenfelds) think they are undeserving of the spots at these programs. What century is this?

Well, quite honestly until they remove these kinds preferences based on race in other admission programs you're going to continue to see this kind of second guessing.

You're actually upset because a handful of AA kids made the cut?! You'll do your kid a disservice by making him/her believe they've been a victim here.

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

The wondering and second guessing is tiresome, and yes, unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

Perhaps my AA child is not that aware of the full historical context; but he too wonders why certain white children are in the magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

Perhaps my AA child is not that aware of the full historical context; but he too wonders why certain white children are in the magnet programs.

Great post! I also read a great study about how "other factors", outside of grades test scores show Asians primarily but other groups also being discriminated against in most major colleges in favor of whites. Discretionary admittance keeps the old guard in place. I'm sure this can be extrapolated to many different areas including magnets. I've seen it time and time again where the "image" of intelligence trumps actual demonstration of intelligence. This bias gives whites unfair preferential treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

Perhaps my AA child is not that aware of the full historical context; but he too wonders why certain white children are in the magnet programs.

Great post! I also read a great study about how "other factors", outside of grades test scores show Asians primarily but other groups also being discriminated against in most major colleges in favor of whites. Discretionary admittance keeps the old guard in place. I'm sure this can be extrapolated to many different areas including magnets. I've seen it time and time again where the "image" of intelligence trumps actual demonstration of intelligence. This bias gives whites unfair preferential treatment.

Please post that study. I would be interested to read that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Great post! I also read a great study about how "other factors", outside of grades test scores show Asians primarily but other groups also being discriminated against in most major colleges in favor of whites. Discretionary admittance keeps the old guard in place. I'm sure this can be extrapolated to many different areas including magnets. I've seen it time and time again where the "image" of intelligence trumps actual demonstration of intelligence. This bias gives whites unfair preferential treatment.

I think that we should not mistake test scores for merit, or intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How on earth did you get that I was upset from what I posted? My child is in an HGC, I always assumed that kids got in by merit. What I said is it's not unreasonable to wonder if there might be a preference for URM based on other competitive admissions programs.

Perhaps my AA child is not that aware of the full historical context; but he too wonders why certain white children are in the magnet programs.

Great post! I also read a great study about how "other factors", outside of grades test scores show Asians primarily but other groups also being discriminated against in most major colleges in favor of whites. Discretionary admittance keeps the old guard in place. I'm sure this can be extrapolated to many different areas including magnets. I've seen it time and time again where the "image" of intelligence trumps actual demonstration of intelligence. This bias gives whites unfair preferential treatment.

Please post that study. I would be interested to read that.

Not pp, but....

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

[Anonymous]

There is a score minimum for admittance to an HGC.