What is the deal with Swathmore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in hearing from folks with direct connection with Swarthmore, not those opining from afar. I keep hearing thats while its an excellent school, that many students are unhappy there, that it has an unfriendly, competitive climate. So, is that true? Anyone know of students who are happy?

OP, through a close fried with DD currently attending, report is directly on point with your comments. Very unhappy.

I know 4 current Swarthmore students who are very happy. So there! Come on, this is silly -- there are unhappy and happy students at every college. The question is what do current students like and not like about the school, and how is that relevant to a prospective applicant's interests and goals. An applicant with conservative political views who feels threatened by the generally liberal climate at Swarthmore will be unhappy. Not much that's new there.

I posted the question and I don't think its silly at all. Of course there are happy and unhappy students everywhere, but not in the same concentrations. I have heard from quite a few people that it is an unhappy place. these are students who are very liberal. Since my DC is looking at schools, generalities like "there are unhappy and happy students at every college," are not helpful. I would like to hear specifics about Swarthmore, given this reputation. I am glad you know 4 students there who are happy (how well do you know them?). Thats helpful.

You can find many places for your "interests and goals," but how many of those are places where you would enjoy spending 4 years?

What do you mean by "quite a few"? Is this 2-3, or a dozen unhappy kids? Also, WHY your friends' kids were unhappy is key.

Is this 3-4 of your conservative friends who are unhappy with the liberal bent? Or 2-3 of your kid's friends from the math and science magnet who are unhappy with the course offerings? Before you diss PP's 4 happy Swarthmore acquaintances, I think you need to check your "survey group" and ask whether it's representative of your kid's interests and goals. If your kid is a conservative robotics geek, then you might be right and Swarthmore (despite the strong engineering program) might be a bad fit.

None of the above. They were unhappy because they found the atmosphere cold, competitive, unpleasant. I don't know why you're fixated on this idea of the fit, or ideology. None of these students are conservative or robotics geeks. Like my DC they are liberal/left humanities types. This is why I ask the question. (I feel like I'm repeating myself). DC is perfectly capable of figuring out that a school that doesn't focus on his interests or has a very different political tilt, may not be the school for him. Those are easy things to find out. Whats more difficult is the stuff you won't find reading about the school. Its really odd to me that you think the only reason a student would be unhappy would be because of course offerings or dominant political leanings. I don't know why you;re fixated on that when I've clearly said that I was asking about atmosphere.

[Anonymous]

And I'm not arguing, I just want to hear. As I said, the fact that you know happy students is helpful. I'm not out to "prove" a point, just to investigate a common theme I've heard.

[Anonymous]

PP, people may be confusing you with OP who is also down on Swarthmore, but because it is liberal and OP is clearly conservative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I'm not arguing, I just want to hear. As I said, the fact that you know happy students is helpful. I'm not out to "prove" a point, just to investigate a common theme I've heard.

First of all, I think you should know that there are at least 2 of us who have posted in response to your question about the happiness factor. I'm the earlier PP, and I have never heard Swarthmore described as competitive or cold. The current students and alums I know are not that way at all. (These include close friends and high school teammates of my children and close friends of mine, including one who has been a friend for 40 years.) All of these folks would probably describe Swarthmore as a demanding school with an intensely academic vibe. Would your child find that too competitive? If so, then maybe Swarthmore isn't the right school for him/her. That's not a judgment of your child, so please don't interpret it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I'm not arguing, I just want to hear. As I said, the fact that you know happy students is helpful. I'm not out to "prove" a point, just to investigate a common theme I've heard.

First of all, I think you should know that there are at least 2 of us who have posted in response to your question about the happiness factor. I'm the earlier PP, and I have never heard Swarthmore described as competitive or cold. The current students and alums I know are not that way at all. (These include close friends and high school teammates of my children and close friends of mine, including one who has been a friend for 40 years.) All of these folks would probably describe Swarthmore as a demanding school with an intensely academic vibe. Would your child find that too competitive? If so, then maybe Swarthmore isn't the right school for him/her. That's not a judgment of your child, so please don't interpret it that way.

I'm not OP and this is helpful. DC is highly academic but doesn't like a competitive atmosphere. Its interesting how there are some schools that can thread that needle and provide a heavily academic environment without a sense of competition. And then there are schools that have a rep for being intensely competitive (Johns Hopkins, at least by rep). So, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Friends' son just graduated. He has always been intensely academic and internally driven. (Enough to cause parents concern in HS .) He has also always been highly social -in a likes people way, not a party animal way. While I am sure there are many uber competitive students there ( I do not have current information on this) this young man is egalitarian minded & I'm guessing it was the intense academics with the Quaker influenced values that drew him.
He loved it.

[Anonymous]

I spent many years in admission/recruiting for an elite law school and could NOT stand these kids.

[Anonymous]

Its ridiculous to make the commentary on students outlandish behavior at public hearings a "conservative" v. "liberal" issue. That's nothing more than an attempt to run from the fact that the students were plain rude. No one disputes their rights to speak their views provided its done in an orderly fashion. That's really it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spent many years in admission/recruiting for an elite law school and could NOT stand these kids.

For a reference point, from where did you find students you loved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I'm not arguing, I just want to hear. As I said, the fact that you know happy students is helpful. I'm not out to "prove" a point, just to investigate a common theme I've heard.

First of all, I think you should know that there are at least 2 of us who have posted in response to your question about the happiness factor. I'm the earlier PP, and I have never heard Swarthmore described as competitive or cold. The current students and alums I know are not that way at all. (These include close friends and high school teammates of my children and close friends of mine, including one who has been a friend for 40 years.) All of these folks would probably describe Swarthmore as a demanding school with an intensely academic vibe. Would your child find that too competitive? If so, then maybe Swarthmore isn't the right school for him/her. That's not a judgment of your child, so please don't interpret it that way.

I'm not OP and this is helpful. DC is highly academic but doesn't like a competitive atmosphere. Its interesting how there are some schools that can thread that needle and provide a heavily academic environment without a sense of competition. And then there are schools that have a rep for being intensely competitive (Johns Hopkins, at least by rep). So, thank you.

I'm glad this was helpful to you. As you look at other schools, I would suggest that you and your son try to be more specific about what he's looking for in a school. Framing the question as "happy" v. "unhappy" won't be as helpful because it's so subjective; more helpful would be to describe a school culture that is collaborative, rather than comptetitive. What might be most helpful, however, is describing your son and asking whether this kind of student would fare well at X school, or, conversely, asking what kind of student thrives at X. For example, the PP who described a friend's son who loved Swarthmore as sociable and interested in others, but not a party animal, offered a very helpful insight along these lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I'm not arguing, I just want to hear. As I said, the fact that you know happy students is helpful. I'm not out to "prove" a point, just to investigate a common theme I've heard.

First of all, I think you should know that there are at least 2 of us who have posted in response to your question about the happiness factor. I'm the earlier PP, and I have never heard Swarthmore described as competitive or cold. The current students and alums I know are not that way at all. (These include close friends and high school teammates of my children and close friends of mine, including one who has been a friend for 40 years.) All of these folks would probably describe Swarthmore as a demanding school with an intensely academic vibe. Would your child find that too competitive? If so, then maybe Swarthmore isn't the right school for him/her. That's not a judgment of your child, so please don't interpret it that way.

I'm not OP and this is helpful. DC is highly academic but doesn't like a competitive atmosphere. Its interesting how there are some schools that can thread that needle and provide a heavily academic environment without a sense of competition. And then there are schools that have a rep for being intensely competitive (Johns Hopkins, at least by rep). So, thank you.

I'm glad this was helpful to you. As you look at other schools, I would suggest that you and your son try to be more specific about what he's looking for in a school. Framing the question as "happy" v. "unhappy" won't be as helpful because it's so subjective; more helpful would be to describe a school culture that is collaborative, rather than comptetitive. What might be most helpful, however, is describing your son and asking whether this kind of student would fare well at X school, or, conversely, asking what kind of student thrives at X. For example, the PP who described a friend's son who loved Swarthmore as sociable and interested in others, but not a party animal, offered a very helpful insight along these lines.

This is all true but "happy versus unhappy" is also important. of course its subjective, but choosing a school is subjective. And if you consistently hear that students at a particular school are unhappy, that means something. Especially because there are schools where you consistently hear that students are happy. Not everything about the search is quantifiable. Some schools just get the atmosphere thing wrong, for whatever reason. But it is absolutely a fact that you won't find the same levels of contentment at every school. There are a lot of excellent schools out there, many that jibe with DC's interests. So I prefer to increase the likelihood that he will be happy by sending him to a school where the students skew happy.

[Anonymous]

Swarthmore ranks #2 in happiness -- that settles it!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/the-12-colleges-with-the-_n_1004430.html#s400924&title=12_University_of

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore ranks #2 in happiness -- that settles it!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/the-12-colleges-with-the-_n_1004430.html#s400924&title=12_University_of

I knew this couldn't be right (because I graduated from Swarthmore in the '90s), and it's not. This is a measure of retention rates, i.e. how many sophomores come back after freshman year. These are committed, driven students who got into a great college, so of course they come back for their second year. I remember thinking the school wasn't right for me, but I was on a path and I was going to stay on that path because I was dedicated like that.

At the time I did not let my instincts steer me into transferring, but with the benefit of a few more decades of living, I can say that I spent those years feeling way too much pressure to study, write, and perform. I did all of those things well, but by the end I was completely burned out. Very little of it ended up mattering at all to my career success. My spouse went to a much more laid back state school and did very well and went on to a well known grad school, and has achieved far more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore ranks #2 in happiness -- that settles it!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/the-12-colleges-with-the-_n_1004430.html#s400924&title=12_University_of

I knew this couldn't be right (because I graduated from Swarthmore in the '90s), and it's not. This is a measure of retention rates, i.e. how many sophomores come back after freshman year. These are committed, driven students who got into a great college, so of course they come back for their second year. I remember thinking the school wasn't right for me, but I was on a path and I was going to stay on that path because I was dedicated like that.

At the time I did not let my instincts steer me into transferring, but with the benefit of a few more decades of living, I can say that I spent those years feeling way too much pressure to study, write, and perform. I did all of those things well, but by the end I was completely burned out. Very little of it ended up mattering at all to my career success. My spouse went to a much more laid back state school and did very well and went on to a well known grad school, and has achieved far more.

OK, but, Swarthmore ranked higher in retention rates than: Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, U Penn, Cal Tech, U Chicago, and Williams. For your theory to be right, Swarthmore students would need to be more driven than kids at these other schools - is that what you're saying?

This is not to play down your negative experience at Swarthmore, and we really don't have a right to challenge your views on your own experiences. I just want to get beyond the talk of "happy" vs. "unhappy" which isn't really helpful because what makes one person happy is really different from what makes another person happy. I think the retention rate thing is a red herring. We need to dig down to the specific causes of happiness or unhappiness (competitiveness, too many frats, too few frats, or whatever) so that PP can make decisions based on identifiable characteristics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spent many years in admission/recruiting for an elite law school and could NOT stand these kids.

Who are "these kids"? Swarthmore students or any kids contemplating your "elite law school"?