Time to Stop Counting on Charters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, somebody gets in, because there are tons of people with kids in charter schools, including me. I understand your frustration, and yes, the odds are low but just like the Powerball somebody's number is going to come up. It just sucks when it isn't yours. The fact that lots of people don't get in doesn't mean that charters are a waste of time. We all play the hand we're dealt. If I hadn't gotten a slot, we simply would have left our child in daycare until K and then enrolled him at a Catholic school.

Yeah! 2 extra years of daycare - because you know, everyone can just pay for that.

Again, JERK - it would have meant putting off having a second child. I can't "just pay for that" either. I'd have to make choices and stay on BC. But thanks for pretending you know everything about my situation when you don't. My point is that everyone has to make tough choices. No one is guaranteed a spot for free PS3/PK4 and no one should act as though they are entitled to it.

Meow honey.

In DC, everyone is entitled to it. Are you new to the city?

Lived here 10 years. Not aware that PS3 has been mandated yet, that's news to me. So fine - no one is entitled to the school of their choice. Fair enough or would you care to argue that point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why? The point is not that there is something wrong with charters/school choice. The point is that there aren't enough charters to go around and we need more of them for true choice.

actually, the point is the failure of DCPS to be an adequate system to meet the needs of its constituents. Very rarely do you have so much public funding for charter schools--there is much greater 'choice' in DC than in many, many other areas. the problem is that the defaults are so uneven and inadequate. Unfortunately, with so many middle and high SES, educated proactive parents sending their kids to charters, the DCPS schools are drained of intangible resources of involved parents. This can be a good thing--either forcing DCPS to imrpove its game or close its schools (and both are happening, I think), but I think the idea that you are entitled to a huge choice of publicly funded schools is pretty bizarre. Most public education systems do not work that way.

This post bothers me because it assumes that help from parents and the community is just some extra bonus that DCPS needs to make itself deserving of, not something that is necessary for public education to function properly. DCPS takes a lot of heat for not being "an adequate system," but DCPCS rarely gets the same amount of heat for only providing a handful of schools that 100s of families try to squeeze into each year while constantly opening and closing schools (wasting a bunch of time and resources that could have gone into helping at least a few neighborhood schools).

False dichotomy. Charters - whether opening or closing - are not wasting time and resources that could have gone into helping a few neighborhood schools. Those are resources that were not taken from DCPS (in the form of families who left them) nor can they be given to DCPS (in the form of families being forced to attend them). The existence of charter schools and worthwhile educations are one reason middle class families have chose to stay in DC, instead of ignoring it as they have done for decades. Without those schools many, many families will not choose their local school. They will choose private or leave.

Well, you're talking about a short-term fix that addresses the needs of a few. Do you think DC is going to ATTRACT middle class families with the current system?What will attract them - a chance to MAYBE get into a school that they'd like to send their children to? And, no, not all middle class families will leave. As we saw during the school closings, some middle class families do want to stay and improve their neighborhood schools. Maybe those are the right families to be catering to, not the families who blame the community for all its problems while waving their tax statements around as if they're doing everyone a favor just by staying put. This attitude of bowing down the demands of the more affluent families is the reason that the achievement gap in DCPS has grown over the past several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that you need to stop looking to charters as your only choice and get your neighborhoods to rally around your local school. Ross did it, Garrison and Tubman should be next. For the last several years the charters have killed the local schools but that has to change now that charters aren't a realistic option for most people.

This is hard to do in some neighborhoods, though. I tried and simply could not rally any parents. I'm in Ward 4, where there are several good charters, and everyone just assumed that would be their route and that rallying around our neighborhood school was a waste of time. So I gave up.

Right, it didn't work in the past because there were charter spots so rallying didn't seem worth it. NOW people in Ward 4 should realize that charters aren't going to be an option for most people anymore. with siblings better most of the open spots. This is the time to make the decision to send your kid to the local school, when lots of other people are in the same boat.

We plan to leave the area altogether before K and are happy with our charter so I'm not changing now. Some other parent can appoint themselves the ringleader now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why? The point is not that there is something wrong with charters/school choice. The point is that there aren't enough charters to go around and we need more of them for true choice.

actually, the point is the failure of DCPS to be an adequate system to meet the needs of its constituents. Very rarely do you have so much public funding for charter schools--there is much greater 'choice' in DC than in many, many other areas. the problem is that the defaults are so uneven and inadequate. Unfortunately, with so many middle and high SES, educated proactive parents sending their kids to charters, the DCPS schools are drained of intangible resources of involved parents. This can be a good thing--either forcing DCPS to imrpove its game or close its schools (and both are happening, I think), but I think the idea that you are entitled to a huge choice of publicly funded schools is pretty bizarre. Most public education systems do not work that way.

This post bothers me because it assumes that help from parents and the community is just some extra bonus that DCPS needs to make itself deserving of, not something that is necessary for public education to function properly. DCPS takes a lot of heat for not being "an adequate system," but DCPCS rarely gets the same amount of heat for only providing a handful of schools that 100s of families try to squeeze into each year while constantly opening and closing schools (wasting a bunch of time and resources that could have gone into helping at least a few neighborhood schools).

False dichotomy. Charters - whether opening or closing - are not wasting time and resources that could have gone into helping a few neighborhood schools. Those are resources that were not taken from DCPS (in the form of families who left them) nor can they be given to DCPS (in the form of families being forced to attend them). The existence of charter schools and worthwhile educations are one reason middle class families have chose to stay in DC, instead of ignoring it as they have done for decades. Without those schools many, many families will not choose their local school. They will choose private or leave.

Well, you're talking about a short-term fix that addresses the needs of a few. Do you think DC is going to ATTRACT middle class families with the current system?What will attract them - a chance to MAYBE get into a school that they'd like to send their children to? And, no, not all middle class families will leave. As we saw during the school closings, some middle class families do want to stay and improve their neighborhood schools. Maybe those are the right families to be catering to, not the families who blame the community for all its problems while waving their tax statements around as if they're doing everyone a favor just by staying put. This attitude of bowing down the demands of the more affluent families is the reason that the achievement gap in DCPS has grown over the past several years.

Trying to force families into schools they don't like simply doesn't work. We have decades of proof. Here in DC, the middle class white families abandoned the system, and a generation later the middle class AA families did too. Not entrusting one's child to the local DCPS is hardly blaming the community for all of their problems. And giving families what they want makes sense. They're not paying taxes for fun, and they can take those dollars elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, somebody gets in, because there are tons of people with kids in charter schools, including me. I understand your frustration, and yes, the odds are low but just like the Powerball somebody's number is going to come up. It just sucks when it isn't yours. The fact that lots of people don't get in doesn't mean that charters are a waste of time. We all play the hand we're dealt. If I hadn't gotten a slot, we simply would have left our child in daycare until K and then enrolled him at a Catholic school.

Yeah! 2 extra years of daycare - because you know, everyone can just pay for that.

Again, JERK - it would have meant putting off having a second child. I can't "just pay for that" either. I'd have to make choices and stay on BC. But thanks for pretending you know everything about my situation when you don't. My point is that everyone has to make tough choices. No one is guaranteed a spot for free PS3/PK4 and no one should act as though they are entitled to it.

Meow honey.

In DC, everyone is entitled to it. Are you new to the city?

Lived here 10 years. Not aware that PS3 has been mandated yet, that's news to me. So fine - no one is entitled to the school of their choice. Fair enough or would you care to argue that point?

TEN WHOLE YEARS! Wow. I'm so impressed by your decade of service to the city. You realize that there are generations of people who have lived here - right? I have shoes that have lived in this city longer than you.

[Anonymous]

Charter mom here - the system does not make sense - but if you get in your charter that is not your first choice, please stick with it and BE INVOLVED! instead of just holding your breath until your next move

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well, you're talking about a short-term fix that addresses the needs of a few. Do you think DC is going to ATTRACT middle class families with the current system?What will attract them - a chance to MAYBE get into a school that they'd like to send their children to? And, no, not all middle class families will leave. As we saw during the school closings, some middle class families do want to stay and improve their neighborhood schools. Maybe those are the right families to be catering to, not the families who blame the community for all its problems while waving their tax statements around as if they're doing everyone a favor just by staying put. This attitude of bowing down the demands of the more affluent families is the reason that the achievement gap in DCPS has grown over the past several years.

Trying to force families into schools they don't like simply doesn't work. We have decades of proof. Here in DC, the middle class white families abandoned the system, and a generation later the middle class AA families did too. Not entrusting one's child to the local DCPS is hardly blaming the community for all of their problems. And giving families what they want makes sense. They're not paying taxes for fun, and they can take those dollars elsewhere.

Well, getting back to the original point - the current system isn't working either because it's not really choice, it's luck. Many tax-paying, middle class families are not able to get into one of the few prized charters, so where does that leave them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, you're talking about a short-term fix that addresses the needs of a few. Do you think DC is going to ATTRACT middle class families with the current system?What will attract them - a chance to MAYBE get into a school that they'd like to send their children to? And, no, not all middle class families will leave. As we saw during the school closings, some middle class families do want to stay and improve their neighborhood schools. Maybe those are the right families to be catering to, not the families who blame the community for all its problems while waving their tax statements around as if they're doing everyone a favor just by staying put. This attitude of bowing down the demands of the more affluent families is the reason that the achievement gap in DCPS has grown over the past several years.

Oh, stuff it. It's ignorant to blame affluent families for the larger problems of DCPS. In fact, our efforts and tax dollars are the thing that prevents the "achievement gap" from becoming an achievement crater. Remember the late 1990s, a time before all these annoying, affluent taxpayers moved back to DC and invested in the system? Not exactly the golden days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that you need to stop looking to charters as your only choice and get your neighborhoods to rally around your local school. Ross did it, Garrison and Tubman should be next. For the last several years the charters have killed the local schools but that has to change now that charters aren't a realistic option for most people.

This is hard to do in some neighborhoods, though. I tried and simply could not rally any parents. I'm in Ward 4, where there are several good charters, and everyone just assumed that would be their route and that rallying around our neighborhood school was a waste of time. So I gave up.

+1, except substitute Ward 5

+2 another Ward 5. We live within walking distance to 3 soon to be 4 charters, two which are impossible to get into. On our block full of kids, no one attends the inbound DCPS. We drive to our sought after charter, 10 minutes door to door. The charter schools beats our IB DCPS by a mile and we would move before sending our kid there.

NP here, Ward 4. Am I the only one for whom the 2008 school closures deflated any sense of getting involved in the local school? My pre-closure involvement was limited to attending a few meetings and being aware of school events, but I did plan to do more volunteering when my child got closer to school age. But when that school was closed, and I was told that our address had "rights to" two different schools, I didn't know where to put my energy. The elementary boundary map, with its big purple blotches overlying boundaries of closed schools, made little sense to me. I assumed that after that first year, surely the boundaries would change and I'd volunteer at my new neighborhood school then. But despite my entreaties to the Chancellor, my council member and my board of ed rep, nothing happened.

Now my child is 6 and at a charter. I like to think I'll volunteer at /donate to my neighborhood school once I have one, but who knows when that would be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Well, getting back to the original point - the current system isn't working either because it's not really choice, it's luck. Many tax-paying, middle class families are not able to get into one of the few prized charters, so where does that leave them?[/quote]

Out. It leaves us out. I hear OP's point. We applied to over a dozen charters for PS-3, and our best waitlist number so far is 90+. This is just not something worth hoping for. I understand now that the application process was a waste of my time.

I know I'm not "entitled" to a spot anywhere, and I am happy that some DC kids, somewhere, are benefiting from these schools, but the process does rub me the wrong way. I am a highly taxed DC taxpayer. We have a combined family income slightly over $250K. Will it kill me to spend $20K for pre-school next year? No. But it will remind me that I don't have access to a lot of the resources that my DC taxes pay for.

[Anonymous]

Just had this conversation with other moms this weekend-children in charters, DCPS, daycare, private. All frustrated. I'm an educator and an involved parent. DCPS does NOT adequately support schools. Our school is one of those that is closing and we couldn't get the Chancellor to come to our school to meet with parents. The school that we were told to feed into was built 80+ years ago, and is not scheduled to modernized for 2 years.

And this charter process--foolishness as well. We applied to three. Only seen results for one- oldest son #43, younger son #108. Younger son also on waitlist for every DCPS school to which we applied. And we didn't do the JKLM schools...

However, I will say, having taught in a DCPS, most DCPS have great early childhood programs and if you are educated and involved, your child will do fine if you decide to venture beyond those schools to which you applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Well, getting back to the original point - the current system isn't working either because it's not really choice, it's luck. Many tax-paying, middle class families are not able to get into one of the few prized charters, so where does that leave them?

Out. It leaves us out. I hear OP's point. We applied to over a dozen charters for PS-3, and our best waitlist number so far is 90+. This is just not something worth hoping for. I understand now that the application process was a waste of my time.

I know I'm not "entitled" to a spot anywhere, and I am happy that some DC kids, somewhere, are benefiting from these schools, but the process does rub me the wrong way. I am a highly taxed DC taxpayer. We have a combined family income slightly over $250K. Will it kill me to spend $20K for pre-school next year? No. But it will remind me that I don't have access to a lot of the resources that my DC taxes pay for.

There are open PS3 and PK4 spaces for everyone who wants one. If you want access to free PS/PK it is yours. Nobody goes without a seat except by choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that you need to stop looking to charters as your only choice and get your neighborhoods to rally around your local school. Ross did it, Garrison and Tubman should be next. For the last several years the charters have killed the local schools but that has to change now that charters aren't a realistic option for most people.

This is hard to do in some neighborhoods, though. I tried and simply could not rally any parents. I'm in Ward 4, where there are several good charters, and everyone just assumed that would be their route and that rallying around our neighborhood school was a waste of time. So I gave up.

+1, except substitute Ward 5

+2 another Ward 5. We live within walking distance to 3 soon to be 4 charters, two which are impossible to get into. On our block full of kids, no one attends the inbound DCPS. We drive to our sought after charter, 10 minutes door to door. The charter schools beats our IB DCPS by a mile and we would move before sending our kid there.

But the point is you were able to get into a charter. Most people now cannot. What if everyone on your block just made the decision to go to the local school and really be involved? There is no other option so isn't it worth it to try? Or is everyone just going to up and move now?

[Anonymous]

I would definitely move rather than sacrifice a single year of my child's schooling by knowingly sending her to a failing school where the dysfunction is entrenched. Elementary years are too few and fleeting to waste a moment on a social experiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that you need to stop looking to charters as your only choice and get your neighborhoods to rally around your local school. Ross did it, Garrison and Tubman should be next. For the last several years the charters have killed the local schools but that has to change now that charters aren't a realistic option for most people.

This is hard to do in some neighborhoods, though. I tried and simply could not rally any parents. I'm in Ward 4, where there are several good charters, and everyone just assumed that would be their route and that rallying around our neighborhood school was a waste of time. So I gave up.

+1, except substitute Ward 5

+2 another Ward 5. We live within walking distance to 3 soon to be 4 charters, two which are impossible to get into. On our block full of kids, no one attends the inbound DCPS. We drive to our sought after charter, 10 minutes door to door. The charter schools beats our IB DCPS by a mile and we would move before sending our kid there.

But the point is you were able to get into a charter. Most people now cannot. What if everyone on your block just made the decision to go to the local school and really be involved? There is no other option so isn't it worth it to try? Or is everyone just going to up and move now?

Disclaimer: This is an honest question, not intended to goad or annoy anyone.

Do you have access to birth data in DC? I must be doing something wrong, because all the census data I'm finding is ancient. Has there truly been a spike in births in the past 5 years or so?