Are Independent Schools for Black Children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are clearly a lot of people with perceptions that their children face racial bias and, at a minimum, stereotyping. Again, it's hard to feel even-handed and cool-headed if your child is in trouble, but I have seen numerous parents of all races blame the school or say their child is being picked on. The white parents who do this tend to say there is a personality conflict with a teacher or coach who does not like/picks on their child; they also will say (unless they are wealthy) that class determines the treatment of their child. Some of the AA parents use the same arguments, some raise issues of racial bias.

In all the cases I can think of, the amazing thing is that the punishment/treatment really was the same across the board as in the past. But people get selective memories and/or (perhaps even more frequently) just aren't in a position to know what has happened in the past unless they've had multiple kids stretching over many years, for example, or have a friend/spouse working at the school. It is understandable -- the instinct to defend one's young is powerful -- but at least at the school I am thinking of the suspicions of unfair disciplinary treatment, by parents of ALL races, seem misplaced. And I do think that a lot of time it distracts attention away from the real issue: the child, and how the issue arose in the first place. Maybe the school is not a good academic fit. Maybe there are learning issues. Maybe there is a substance issue that could be nipped in the bud if dealt with early. Maybe there is a situation with online addiction (the articles on screen time for teens and college students will turn your hair).

I guess I would advise AA parents or other parents of under--represented minorities to balance vigilance (because prejudice still exists) with trust in approaching the school, and try to really get to know some of your childrens' teachers so if you are getting a bad feeling about something you might have a good internal sounding board to raise your concerns.

I have 6 years in the private school environment as a parent and as an employee and your post is dead on and very well balanced. Insecure parent, read above.

[Anonymous]

On the contrary, I think you might be misguided to think it does not or cannot possibly happen.

A study on immigrant children and their experiences in being bullied in school was an eye opener.

[Anonymous]

Unless something actually happens to them, there are some people who won't believe that discrimination exists and that people who call out the discrimination are "playing the victim." It really takes a personal encounter for some people to finally understand that prejudice is alive and well in private and public schools among children and administrators, sadly.

[Anonymous]

AA children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the white kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the contrary, I think you might be misguided to think it does not or cannot possibly happen.

A study on immigrant children and their experiences in being bullied in school was an eye opener.

NP. You seem to be misunderstanding or perhaps intentionally mischaracterizing the positions of other PPs. No one here is saying discrimination cannot or does not occur. All people are saying is that not every case where a minority child is criticized can be attributed to prejudice.

[Anonymous]

But the majority can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

I would be interested if there is a reference as well, because although I have read that blacks are disciplined more than whites, I have never seen that assertion paired with data saying that the disparate treatment is for the same offenses. I believe some will say just the higher amount of disciplinary actions are dispositive, but it seems reasonable (and it would be good to see a study disproving or proving it) that children from more challenged SES backgrounds may commit more offenses at school. If there are proportionally more blacks living under the poverty line than their percentage in the population, then that could (haven't seen research either way) also be reflected in beviorL patterns at school.

To give a related analogy, the high Latino drop-out rate is generally attributed in part to cultural factors that can influence kids to drop out of school to get a job as soon as possible. If there weren't the information out here on the cultural piece, people could say that he mere fact of higher Latino drop-out rate to racism in the schools (which may also exist as a confounding factor).

So, again, I don't reject the assertion that in public schools blacks are punished more harshly than whites for the same offense, but I'd want to see the studies. In independent schools, I only have observation at one school to go by, which means nothing quantifiably, but at least for my peace of mind the discipline has been meted out fairly regardless of race. I've certainly heard stories at other schools of donors' kids/board kids getting better deals, which is not strictly tied to race but could correlate somewhat if we're taking multi-generational alum/donor family given the historic lack of diversity a couple generations back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But the majority can be.

I disagree with this so strongly, but it makes me sad, not angry. Clearly there is a gulf that cannot be bridged on this issue. However, if you actually believe the majority of disciplinary actions at reputable independent schools in D.C. against under-represented minorities are driven by racial animus or prejudice or stereotyping, I'd think you would want to go public or charter -- why entrust your child to a system you at least subjectively believe is so flawed and misguided? If you haven't had a child in school yet, give it a try, you may change your mind. Just try to go in open-minded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AA parent here. 08:26, you are right on the money. I am glad you stood up ith a realistic viewpoint. Most people will most likely disagree with you but it is what it is. Thanks!

Gee, every group has it's complains: the Asians about being held to higher academic standard, the white about something else...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is sidwell not for blac boys??

Did you see their basketball team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA parents here. My DS went to Beauvoir. I wouldn't say any of this until he was gone from there. A couple parents made my DS and myself very uncomfortable. Society types who were always looking to call-out DS and keep their DS away from him and the other AA boys. I never let on to DS that this was an issue, but I was always on pins-and-needles for him there.

You are extremely selfish if, knowing your DS was so uncomfortable, you let him stay on over there. You should have done what was in his interest, taking him to a more acceptable school (and many have the great education that B is supposed to), rather than keep him there all so that you could tout he went there! Unbelievable

You sound so spoiled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:17:06, I have not read in any of the post that anyone is crying victim. On the other hand, as one poster noted, certain racial/ethnic males some times walk on eggshells to avoid rocking the boat.

I have not seen a concrete example yet.

[Anonymous]

The black child who is not well behaved and "polished" is always accepted by "white schools" for sports. As long as the black male can run, jum throw a football and bounce a basketball he is loved.
But let them NOT have that to offer, isolation, intimidation, substantial exClusion!!!
Society is what it is. Check schools out beforehabd, research and interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

Not the PP, but here's a few articles:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02732170701796429
http://edr.sagepub.com/content/39/1/59.short
Skiba, Russell J., et al. "Parsing Disciplinary Disproportionality: Contributions of Behavior, Student, and School Characteristics to Suspension and Expulsion." (2012), p.6
http://uex.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/07/30/0042085912450575.abstract

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in public and private schools, OP. In public schools, black males have a different suspension rate for the exact same offenses. It's just how the world is. You are at the school, hopefully, because you have identified something your child gets there that he cannot get anywhere else, not because paying tuition entitles you to a life void of racism. We all have to work toward that together.

I can tell you that the same attitudes exist amongst parents in the public/charter school world in DC as well. "How can we get the poor kids out of the school that is in our neighborhood?" "How can we get more white kids to the school?" "Yes, the school has lots of AAs but they are high-SES, so, you know..."

You live with this, you deal with this and you always will. The US has a strong legacy of racism. The best thing you can do for your child is to give him a great education so that he can help to educate the world out of ignorance. He will know what it means to be on the outside (and btw unless he goes to an HBCU, he will experience this at the next level anyway) and hopefully he can turn that into something positive. To be young, gifted and black...a blessing and a curse.

I call bs on the bolded comment above, cite the source, and post a link to the peer reviewed jouranl article and let';s see the sample size, longitudinal range of teh study, etc..

I would be interested if there is a reference as well, because although I have read that blacks are disciplined more than whites, I have never seen that assertion paired with data saying that the disparate treatment is for the same offenses. I believe some will say just the higher amount of disciplinary actions are dispositive, but it seems reasonable (and it would be good to see a study disproving or proving it) that children from more challenged SES backgrounds may commit more offenses at school. If there are proportionally more blacks living under the poverty line than their percentage in the population, then that could (haven't seen research either way) also be reflected in beviorL patterns at school.

To give a related analogy, the high Latino drop-out rate is generally attributed in part to cultural factors that can influence kids to drop out of school to get a job as soon as possible. If there weren't the information out here on the cultural piece, people could say that he mere fact of higher Latino drop-out rate to racism in the schools (which may also exist as a confounding factor).

So, again, I don't reject the assertion that in public schools blacks are punished more harshly than whites for the same offense, but I'd want to see the studies. In independent schools, I only have observation at one school to go by, which means nothing quantifiably, but at least for my peace of mind the discipline has been meted out fairly regardless of race. I've certainly heard stories at other schools of donors' kids/board kids getting better deals, which is not strictly tied to race but could correlate somewhat if we're taking multi-generational alum/donor family given the historic lack of diversity a couple generations back.

Are you a school administrator? Do you have internal information that the discipline has been meted fairly?