Racial make up in honors vs. non-honors classes

[Anonymous]

Perhaps I wasn't clear when I mentioned the time and resources issue. For example, I don't think the amount of time a parent volunteers in the classroom or donates to the PTA should be a factor in the child's academic placement. To me, that is a political game stacked against many families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What resources do middle income families have that lower SES don't ? "

time, transportation and prior education.

"Why are Asians always out of ESOL quicker, surpassing AA and Caucasian test scores quickly and not living generation to generation in poverty?"

More Asian immigrants were either educated or had a business back home i thought given that it's more challenging to immigrate from Asia than Latin America to the US. This puts them in a better position to scramble for what's needed here.

See this is what people who don't want to get themselves out of a situation say. And they complain it isn't fair. Free school, free breakfast, free lunch, free bus rides. If you made education a priority in your house, you don't need a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering why it matters to you what the racial composition is of his classes? Isn't this a great opportunity to teach him that race doesn't matter? That he's a smart kid and he should learn to work well with the other smart kids in his class?

It matters because race does not determine your intelligence. So if there are 50% minority in the schools there should be 50% minorities in AP classes. Otherwise there is another reason why kids are not in AP classes.

It not just a minority issue -this happens to boys, kids with LDs, and minorities.

It does matter to me that my kids are not given the impression in their school experience that blacks and Hispanics are poor, not as smart and trouble.

This is a big problem in diverse MoCo schools. So I understand why the poster above who is Caucasian and in private believes her diverse experience is more balanced.

You can't understand that with money comes more resources? that those with money can provide their children with the best?

I'm white but could not afford to send both of my kids to private school. However, I know of three families (Asian, black and Hispanic) who are sending their kids to fantastic private schools.

It's socioencomics.

And don't think that high-achieving minorities are friendly with others who are often in trouble. Kids self-segregate by race, yes. But they also segregate by socioeconomics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is all about good preschool then why hasn't Headstart caused dramatic long term gains?

b/c it's also about self-awareness

The kids living in poverty (mainly section 8 housing) aren't forming bonds with those in more affluent areas. So by third grade, let's see who's having playdates with whom. Community/environment has a lot to do with success, too, as there's an emotional component that fits into the picture, too.

[Anonymous]

Asians are not a monolith. The kids of SE Asians immigrants tend to be poorer and less educated than East Asians or South Asians. SAT scores also reflect this disparity between Asians.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/06/07/report-calls-end-grouping-asian-american-students-one-category

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.

What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.

+1 to this! This is EXACTLY what I hope to instill in my kids.

I'm mixed race, and really don't care whether my kids' friends are black/brown/white/green. I've always encouraged them to seek out friends who treat them well, are kind, motivated, etc. Find people who are supportive and that's a good lesson to carry with you as you move forward in life. Just as you don't want people to make assumptions about your kid based on race - don't make assumptions about the other kids in his class based on their race. They might turn out to have similar interests and turn out to be great friends. If they are in similar classes, guess what - they ARE HIS peers. And, it's completely fine if they are not AA.

OP, if you're AA, I'm assuming you have AA friends and family members that your kids interact with. So what if the kids at school in his classes are a different race? Your kid will be fine. There's no guarantee that your kid will get a job working with just AA people. And you can still fine AA role models from your kid within your family and friend circle.

OP likely has multiple reasons for wanting a more diverse environment for her child. She probably wants to avoid one where they will be subjected to the types of comments and attitudes on this board. Sometimes there's safety in numbers.

[Anonymous]

We are moving into the area w/ 4 children (1 white, 1 asian, and 2 black). We are purposefully picking schools where a significant portion of black students come from higher SES families (which is significantly correlated to academic outcomes). It has been our experience that the expectations (and related treatment) that teachers/aides/guidance counselors have of our two youngest children depend on their perception of the "average" black child in the school. That's why it matters to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My older DD attended MCPS from K-12. She was identified as GT in 1st. We identify as AA and are lower MC.
Quickly it became apparent that she would be either the only AA or one of two in her GT classes. This held true for MS and HS as well as she took Honors, Advanced MCPS curriculum, and AP classes. There were social difficulties that resulted.

This is part of the reason why my younger DD attends a small private school. All students take a rigorous curriculum. Her classmates are more racially and socioeconomically diverse than her sister's were.

+1

This was exactly our experience. AA son one of very few in middle school magnet and was unhappy socially. Transferred to Big 3 for high school where he has a very diverse group or friends and is much happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.

What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.

+1 to this! This is EXACTLY what I hope to instill in my kids.

I'm mixed race, and really don't care whether my kids' friends are black/brown/white/green. I've always encouraged them to seek out friends who treat them well, are kind, motivated, etc. Find people who are supportive and that's a good lesson to carry with you as you move forward in life. Just as you don't want people to make assumptions about your kid based on race - don't make assumptions about the other kids in his class based on their race. They might turn out to have similar interests and turn out to be great friends. If they are in similar classes, guess what - they ARE HIS peers. And, it's completely fine if they are not AA.

OP, if you're AA, I'm assuming you have AA friends and family members that your kids interact with. So what if the kids at school in his classes are a different race? Your kid will be fine. There's no guarantee that your kid will get a job working with just AA people. And you can still fine AA role models from your kid within your family and friend circle.

OP likely has multiple reasons for wanting a more diverse environment for her child. She probably wants to avoid one where they will be subjected to the types of comments and attitudes on this board. Sometimes there's safety in numbers.

It's the poor children who bully not the other way around. The higher ses have been taught not to bully and to respect differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm AA, attended another MD school district and experienced the same thing. I love the diversity of MoCo. However, I don't think public school middle school and onwards will work for DC and even my niece. I don't want them to go through the same experiences that I had. I really could have used the support of my peers who were like me, but sadly there weren't many.

What do you mean peers like you? You mean that have the same skin color as you? That doesn't define you and that is the problem with why African Americans can not move ahead. They are guilted into thinking they are turning their backs on "their people" by moving ahead of the majority of them. Succeeding in school and life. The peer pressure to stay down with them is very high in middle and high school.

The peers like you are the ones that are similar to your feelings, your abilities, your brain, and your heart. Not your outward appearance. That is a lesson that everyone of every race and culture needs to realize. It would make for a much better society.

+1 to this! This is EXACTLY what I hope to instill in my kids.

I'm mixed race, and really don't care whether my kids' friends are black/brown/white/green. I've always encouraged them to seek out friends who treat them well, are kind, motivated, etc. Find people who are supportive and that's a good lesson to carry with you as you move forward in life. Just as you don't want people to make assumptions about your kid based on race - don't make assumptions about the other kids in his class based on their race. They might turn out to have similar interests and turn out to be great friends. If they are in similar classes, guess what - they ARE HIS peers. And, it's completely fine if they are not AA.

OP, if you're AA, I'm assuming you have AA friends and family members that your kids interact with. So what if the kids at school in his classes are a different race? Your kid will be fine. There's no guarantee that your kid will get a job working with just AA people. And you can still fine AA role models from your kid within your family and friend circle.

OP likely has multiple reasons for wanting a more diverse environment for her child. She probably wants to avoid one where they will be subjected to the types of comments and attitudes on this board. Sometimes there's safety in numbers.

It's the poor children who bully not the other way around. The higher ses have been taught not to bully and to respect differences.

So not true. I was the poor kid at a private school. There were a group of high SES girls who made it their mission to attack me verbally every day, but they were bullies to other girls a well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's the poor children who bully not the other way around. The higher ses have been taught not to bully and to respect differences.

OMG. Seriously? In a well regarded school in MCPS, with mostly high SES families (FARMS < 5%), an ES kid was suspended for physically harming another child; academic bullying is rampant at this school, as well. Get your head out of your ass, PP.

[Anonymous]

PP with AA son who was unhappy socially at magnet. He was bullied by the most affluent students. Money has nothing to do with good or bad behavior. At Big 3 he is on FA but is treated as a peer by all, many of whom are well off. So I would not type cast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering why it matters to you what the racial composition is of his classes? Isn't this a great opportunity to teach him that race doesn't matter? That he's a smart kid and he should learn to work well with the other smart kids in his class?

It matters because race does not determine your intelligence. So if there are 50% minority in the schools there should be 50% minorities in AP classes. Otherwise there is another reason why kids are not in AP classes.

It not just a minority issue -this happens to boys, kids with LDs, and minorities.

It does matter to me that my kids are not given the impression in their school experience that blacks and Hispanics are poor, not as smart and trouble.

This is a big problem in diverse MoCo schools. So I understand why the poster above who is Caucasian and in private believes her diverse experience is more balanced.

You can't understand that with money comes more resources? that those with money can provide their children with the best?

I'm white but could not afford to send both of my kids to private school. However, I know of three families (Asian, black and Hispanic) who are sending their kids to fantastic private schools.

It's socioencomics.

And don't think that high-achieving minorities are friendly with others who are often in trouble. Kids self-segregate by race, yes. But they also segregate by socioeconomics.

Agree with your second statement especially. (I'm not the PP though)

I don't think OP wants to surround her kid with just ANY AA kids. She wants to make sure they are high-achieving AA kids. It's very true that kids self-segregate by socioeconomics.

This is truly a SES issue and not a race issue. Kids with more resources and more involved parents will perform better in school. It doesn't matter if the kids from lower SES are white/black/asian/latino.

[Anonymous]

PP with AA kid: Most of the above is BS. it is a racial issue. My kid is harassed on metro, pulled over for driving while black, constantly asked what sport he plays, told by white " friends" that he is taking the place of kids in DC who really need his spot at Big 3, told with no evidence that he should not enroll in difficult classes. He has been told by several people he would not be in his school if he were not black. These people have no idea of his grades and accomplishments. Black achieving kids are subjected to micro-aggressions fairly routinely at school and in society at large. Asian and white children are treated differently. If you don't think so,you have your head in the sand. That is why for me it is very important that my kid has black peers. They talk about these issues and how to maintain self esteem and motivation. You might read"Young, Gifted, and Black," by Theresa Perry if you are truly interested. Its worse for black boys than black girls. The data on black boys entering and finishing universities is appalling. You can try to make yourself feel better by telling yourself its bad parenting, but racism is still a big factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My African American son takes 3 "on level" classes (including PE and an arts class) and 4 "advanced" classes at our local, majority white, middle school. At back to school night this week, I was pleased to see other AA parents in the halls, and in the lunch room. His first period class, one of the on level ones, had a number of other black parents. But when we went to Advanced English, or History, for example, every face in the room was white. I came home and asked him, and he confirmed. In each of his accelerated classes he was either the only, or one of two black kids. In his on level classes there were between 4 and 6 black kids total.

This same pattern existed last year. I'm curious whether other parents are noticing the same patterns in their kids' classes and how they talk about it with their children.

What's there to talk about? I'm AA and graduated from MCPS years ago and was the only or never more than two other black kids in all of my honors classes. Fast forward: my three AA kids (who recently graduated or are still in high school) attended/attend (1) TPMS Magnet-Blair SMAC, (2) Eastern Magnet-RM Magnet, and (3) TPMS Magnet-RM Magnet. And guess what? They are/were the only or one of very few AAs in their classes (whether a general ed or magnet class). By the way, my kid who is now in college at HYP, told me the other day that not only is she the only person of color (she's moved beyond just counting AAs) in two of the 5 courses she's taking this semester, in one of them, she's also the only female (out of 20 students and the professor!). So I think the only thing you could say to your son is "get use to it" and maybe also remind him that being in an honors or AP level class has little if anything to do with his race but mostly if everything to do with preparation, opportunity, and some times, even luck. BTW, my kid at RM doesn't even have 4-6 other black kids in PE -- so the racial makeup of your son's honors and grade level classes sounds good to me.