Can we please retire the word "feminazi"?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a proud "feminist" but also a SAHM who bristles when WOHM try to tell me that they are better than me, do more than me, and that I should try to find a job with flexibility like they do.

I'm the feminist. They are the anti-feminists.

OP here, yet again. I am a proud feminist (no need for quotation marks) and a SAHM as well. Feminism is what gave women the choice to work and/or stay home with their kids. It's too bad that some people misunderstand that, but that is their problem, not the problem with the feminist movement as a whole.

Anonymous wrote:In recent threads...

The feminists cheered and laughed when Michelle Duggar lost her baby

The feminists jeered and lacked empathy for he military mom who died leaving a husband and kids behind.

The feminists blamed a dad for his wife's depression

The feminists put down SAHMs

The feminists didn't see why a father who is not with the mother should get visitation during the first few months of the baby's life because it is hard enough for mom and that is her time to bond.

This is why I do not identify as a feminist. Do these feminists represent all feminists - no of course not. But that is the voice of modern feminism that now comes through loud and clear. I will loudly speak out for human rights (of all people) but I do not identify as a feminist, that word for me is tainted.

As another poster pointed out, nowhere in these posts did someone identify themselves as a feminist and then proceed to say these horrible things.

Please show me the post where someone says, "I'm a feminist and it's GREAT that Michelle Duggar lost her baby!"

Please show me the post where someone says, "I'm a feminist and that woman who died got what she deserved!"

Please show me the post where someone says, "I'm a feminist and men are evil and make their wives spiral into depression!"

You get my point, I hope.

A feminist perspective on the post about the tragic death of the mother with 8 children might be to wonder what it will take to ensure that women around the world have access to modern pre- and postnatal care, not to castigate the mother for having 8 children.

[Anonymous]

Oh, Jesus H. Christ, people. Behold, the definition of feminism:

feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests — feminist n or adj — feministic adj

So, if you believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, you're a feminist. Congratulations! Your bra-burning kit is in the mail.

Confused? Read this: http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In recent threads...

The feminists cheered and laughed when Michelle Duggar lost her baby

The feminists jeered and lacked empathy for he military mom who died leaving a husband and kids behind.

The feminists blamed a dad for his wife's depression

The feminists put down SAHMs

The feminists didn't see why a father who is not with the mother should get visitation during the first few months of the baby's life because it is hard enough for mom and that is her time to bond.

Your definition of a feminist appears to be anyone who is an asshole. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

and the Duggars do not speak for all Catholics

Oh, of course, because they have a lot of kids they MUST be Catholics! Nice assumptions, Ms. Feminist, and spouting off on topics or using examples you, admittedly, know nothing about. In large part, why feminists have a bad rap.

Why is it derogatory to assume that someone with a large family, who is known for being religious, is Catholic when the Catholic religion happens to be one that values large families? If you don't know much about the Duggars, it's not a huge or mean-spirited leap to think they're Catholic. That PP didn't say anything derogatory about having large families, so why are you attributing her mistake to ill intentions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In recent threads...

The feminists cheered and laughed when Michelle Duggar lost her baby

The feminists jeered and lacked empathy for he military mom who died leaving a husband and kids behind.

The feminists blamed a dad for his wife's depression

The feminists put down SAHMs

The feminists didn't see why a father who is not with the mother should get visitation during the first few months of the baby's life because it is hard enough for mom and that is her time to bond.

This is why I do not identify as a feminist. Do these feminists represent all feminists - no of course not. But that is the voice of modern feminism that now comes through loud and clear. I will loudly speak out for human rights (of all people) but I do not identify as a feminist, that word for me is tainted.

Where in the world are you seeing these posts identified as being written by feminists??? It seems to me that you 1) disagree with the viewpoints expressed, and therefore, 2) attribute them to feminists because of some weird agenda you personally have. There are so crazy whacked out people on this discussion board. I can't say for certain because I don't read every thread and don't know who's posting, but they are generally not the voice of feminists today.

Why would you attribute the admittedly nasty responses to feminists? You could just as easily, for example, attribute the military thread's nastiness to people who are anti-military. Seems like you have a lens through which you are bound and determined to see things.[/quote

I don't have a weird agenda. I can't imagine anyone who holds a non feminist viewpoint or more traditional conservative viewpoint as hating on women who stay at home or for having more than 1 or 2 children etc. That is the 'empowered' feminist viewpoint and it lacks empathy for those women that feminists view as choosing non empowered roles or making non self-fulfillment driven decisions. As I said there are people like 11:50 who would consider themselves feminists but who have respect for all women but that voice only comes through on occasion on this board. For the record I also do not agree with bashing working moms or any anti-women sentiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

and the Duggars do not speak for all Catholics

Oh, of course, because they have a lot of kids they MUST be Catholics! Nice assumptions, Ms. Feminist, and spouting off on topics or using examples you, admittedly, know nothing about. In large part, why feminists have a bad rap.

Why is it derogatory to assume that someone with a large family, who is known for being religious, is Catholic when the Catholic religion happens to be one that values large families? If you don't know much about the Duggars, it's not a huge or mean-spirited leap to think they're Catholic. That PP didn't say anything derogatory about having large families, so why are you attributing her mistake to ill intentions?

I'm the PP getting called out for not knowing what non-birth control practicing religion the Duggar family belongs to. I fail to see what knowing about the lifestyle of a reality TV family has to do with why feminists have a bad rap. I was attempting to use an example that the PP brought up in her post talking about recent threads where "feminists" attack women who make choices they disagree with. My point was that within any social group, there are going to be different choices made and strong opinions about them.

That the PP managed to distill my whole point down to an error in identifying what flavor of Christianity a reality TV family belongs to says a lot about how much the "I'm not a feminist but..." folks care about the big picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In recent threads...

The feminists cheered and laughed when Michelle Duggar lost her baby

The feminists jeered and lacked empathy for he military mom who died leaving a husband and kids behind.

The feminists blamed a dad for his wife's depression

The feminists put down SAHMs

The feminists didn't see why a father who is not with the mother should get visitation during the first few months of the baby's life because it is hard enough for mom and that is her time to bond.

This is why I do not identify as a feminist. Do these feminists represent all feminists - no of course not. But that is the voice of modern feminism that now comes through loud and clear. I will loudly speak out for human rights (of all people) but I do not identify as a feminist, that word for me is tainted.

Where in the world are you seeing these posts identified as being written by feminists??? It seems to me that you 1) disagree with the viewpoints expressed, and therefore, 2) attribute them to feminists because of some weird agenda you personally have. There are so crazy whacked out people on this discussion board. I can't say for certain because I don't read every thread and don't know who's posting, but they are generally not the voice of feminists today.

Why would you attribute the admittedly nasty responses to feminists? You could just as easily, for example, attribute the military thread's nastiness to people who are anti-military. Seems like you have a lens through which you are bound and determined to see things.[/quote

I don't have a weird agenda. I can't imagine anyone who holds a non feminist viewpoint or more traditional conservative viewpoint as hating on women who stay at home or for having more than 1 or 2 children etc. That is the 'empowered' feminist viewpoint and it lacks empathy for those women that feminists view as choosing non empowered roles or making non self-fulfillment driven decisions. As I said there are people like 11:50 who would consider themselves feminists but who have respect for all women but that voice only comes through on occasion on this board. For the record I also do not agree with bashing working moms or any anti-women sentiment.

See, there's your problem. Those aren't feminists. Those are assholes. And guess what: YOU are a feminist! Woo hoo! No more armpit shaving for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, Jesus H. Christ, people. Behold, the definition of feminism:

feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests — feminist n or adj — feministic adj

So, if you believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, you're a feminist. Congratulations! Your bra-burning kit is in the mail.

Confused? Read this: http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

Thank you. I am a man, and a proud feminist. Why? Because I have a daughter, and I would like her to make the same salary as a man in an equivalent job when she enters the workforce. Because she's just as smart as (in most cases, smarter than) her male counterparts, and she has every right to be treated as their equal (or superior, as warranted). Because she deserves the same opportunities as evary other kid, male or female. Because she shouldn't be afraid to raise her hand in school. Because she's perfectly capable of decidign for herself whether she wants to work outside the home or be a SAHM. Because she shouldn't be date-raped and told that she was asking for it. Because she shouldn't be fired if she has a kid. Because her opinions matter as much as any male's. (Again, more than most, but perhaps that's a father's bias.) Because western society (indeed, most societies) have always been patriarchial and male-dominated, and it has required a lot of effort to get to the point where women are thought of, much less treated, as equals. Because misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century United States.

I have a hard time understanding how any woman, or anyone with a daughter, or even anyone with a shred of moral integrity can NOT be a feminist, unless you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term (as demonstrated by some PPs.) And to the one pp in particular, gleaning your perception of feminism from relationship discussions on an anonymous internet forum is the functional equivalent of taking relationship advice from "The Rules," or basing your understanding of men on Cosmo surveys. It's just absurd.

(While I appreciate the offer, you can keep my bra-burning kit.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, Jesus H. Christ, people. Behold, the definition of feminism:

feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests — feminist n or adj — feministic adj

So, if you believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, you're a feminist. Congratulations! Your bra-burning kit is in the mail.

Confused? Read this: http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

Thank you. I am a man, and a proud feminist. Why? Because I have a daughter, and I would like her to make the same salary as a man in an equivalent job when she enters the workforce. Because she's just as smart as (in most cases, smarter than) her male counterparts, and she has every right to be treated as their equal (or superior, as warranted). Because she deserves the same opportunities as evary other kid, male or female. Because she shouldn't be afraid to raise her hand in school. Because she's perfectly capable of decidign for herself whether she wants to work outside the home or be a SAHM. Because she shouldn't be date-raped and told that she was asking for it. Because she shouldn't be fired if she has a kid. Because her opinions matter as much as any male's. (Again, more than most, but perhaps that's a father's bias.) Because western society (indeed, most societies) have always been patriarchial and male-dominated, and it has required a lot of effort to get to the point where women are thought of, much less treated, as equals. Because misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century United States.

I have a hard time understanding how any woman, or anyone with a daughter, or even anyone with a shred of moral integrity can NOT be a feminist, unless you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term (as demonstrated by some PPs.) And to the one pp in particular, gleaning your perception of feminism from relationship discussions on an anonymous internet forum is the functional equivalent of taking relationship advice from "The Rules," or basing your understanding of men on Cosmo surveys. It's just absurd.

(While I appreciate the offer, you can keep my bra-burning kit.)

So is misandry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, Jesus H. Christ, people. Behold, the definition of feminism:

feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests — feminist n or adj — feministic adj

So, if you believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, you're a feminist. Congratulations! Your bra-burning kit is in the mail.

Confused? Read this: http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

Thank you. I am a man, and a proud feminist. Why? Because I have a daughter, and I would like her to make the same salary as a man in an equivalent job when she enters the workforce. Because she's just as smart as (in most cases, smarter than) her male counterparts, and she has every right to be treated as their equal (or superior, as warranted). Because she deserves the same opportunities as evary other kid, male or female. Because she shouldn't be afraid to raise her hand in school. Because she's perfectly capable of decidign for herself whether she wants to work outside the home or be a SAHM. Because she shouldn't be date-raped and told that she was asking for it. Because she shouldn't be fired if she has a kid. Because her opinions matter as much as any male's. (Again, more than most, but perhaps that's a father's bias.) Because western society (indeed, most societies) have always been patriarchial and male-dominated, and it has required a lot of effort to get to the point where women are thought of, much less treated, as equals. Because misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century United States.

I have a hard time understanding how any woman, or anyone with a daughter, or even anyone with a shred of moral integrity can NOT be a feminist, unless you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term (as demonstrated by some PPs.) And to the one pp in particular, gleaning your perception of feminism from relationship discussions on an anonymous internet forum is the functional equivalent of taking relationship advice from "The Rules," or basing your understanding of men on Cosmo surveys. It's just absurd.

(While I appreciate the offer, you can keep my bra-burning kit.)

Baby, is that you? You're supposed to be on vacation, not reading trashy internet gossip!

Seriously though, thank you for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a daughter, and I would like her to make the same salary as a man in an equivalent job when she enters the workforce.

Hi, woman here. Hate to say it, but she probably won't. Not because she has a vagina, but because women are generally raised to "not rock the boat", to "be nice", etc...which influences our earning potential over the course of our careers because we tend to not negotiate. I am paraphrasing something I heard Tory Johnson report re: research conducted a few years back:

College students are recruited to participate in a study, they will receive btw $10-$15 compensation for doing so. The students who are selected participate in said study complete the study, then at the end of the study, are all given $10. The majority of the women accept the $10 and thank the person who gave it to them. Most of the men ask why they are only getting $10 when they were told $10-$15.

This phenomenon was also covered this summer http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/13/negotiate-young-women-college-graduates-first-job_n_875650.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, Jesus H. Christ, people. Behold, the definition of feminism:

feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests — feminist n or adj — feministic adj

So, if you believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, you're a feminist. Congratulations! Your bra-burning kit is in the mail.

Confused? Read this: http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/

Thank you. I am a man, and a proud feminist. Why? Because I have a daughter, and I would like her to make the same salary as a man in an equivalent job when she enters the workforce. Because she's just as smart as (in most cases, smarter than) her male counterparts, and she has every right to be treated as their equal (or superior, as warranted). Because she deserves the same opportunities as evary other kid, male or female. Because she shouldn't be afraid to raise her hand in school. Because she's perfectly capable of decidign for herself whether she wants to work outside the home or be a SAHM. Because she shouldn't be date-raped and told that she was asking for it. Because she shouldn't be fired if she has a kid. Because her opinions matter as much as any male's. (Again, more than most, but perhaps that's a father's bias.) Because western society (indeed, most societies) have always been patriarchial and male-dominated, and it has required a lot of effort to get to the point where women are thought of, much less treated, as equals. Because misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century United States.

I have a hard time understanding how any woman, or anyone with a daughter, or even anyone with a shred of moral integrity can NOT be a feminist, unless you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term (as demonstrated by some PPs.) And to the one pp in particular, gleaning your perception of feminism from relationship discussions on an anonymous internet forum is the functional equivalent of taking relationship advice from "The Rules," or basing your understanding of men on Cosmo surveys. It's just absurd.

(While I appreciate the offer, you can keep my bra-burning kit.)

So is misandry.

Fine. Feminism is against misandry, too.

[Anonymous]

14:05, if your working definition of feminism is misandry, you haven't been paying attention. Or, more likely, you are cherry-picking extreme examples of women who have extreme views and using them to reinforce your pre-existign notion that emasculation of all men is a fundamental precept of feminism.

But seriously, those of you who are anti-feminist, what is your objection to fundamental fairness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14:05, if your working definition of feminism is misandry, you haven't been paying attention. Or, more likely, you are cherry-picking extreme examples of women who have extreme views and using them to reinforce your pre-existign notion that emasculation of all men is a fundamental precept of feminism.

But seriously, those of you who are anti-feminist, what is your objection to fundamental fairness?

No opposition to feminism, just semantics at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:14:05, if your working definition of feminism is misandry, you haven't been paying attention. Or, more likely, you are cherry-picking extreme examples of women who have extreme views and using them to reinforce your pre-existign notion that emasculation of all men is a fundamental precept of feminism.

But seriously, those of you who are anti-feminist, what is your objection to fundamental fairness?

A textbook I was reading in gender studies class on feminism actually spoke to the negatives of masculinity and the need to reduce that. Masculinity is a negative in feminism. To me feminism does not equal fundamental fairness. I don't see much fairness in it at all. Fairness to me means working to advantage both men and women - not just women and particularly not women at men's expense. I don't see any feminist caring that men are murdered more, commit suicide more, are expected to endure domestic violence without complaint, aren't allowed to be vulnerable, are seen as less capable and irresponsible parents, die more on the job, are mocked/feared for being in nurturing careers (e.g. nursing, teaching young children), are perceived by many as potential child molesters, serve longer jail sentences for the same crimes, are expected to risk their lives, have to put women and children first, can't be too masculine, can't name call but have to take name calling, are pressured to succeed or are called lazy etc...

Feminism cares only about the advantages and privileges of being female.