Can we please retire the word "feminazi"?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flame away on my post but I'm going to say it anyways. I can't stand the women who call themselves feminists but then freak out when their DH calls them a bitch after she calls him an asshole. As another poster pointed out, half the women I know who consider themselves feminists use the biggest double standard I've ever seen. If I call my DH an asshole, I really don't care if he calls me a bitch. We both used words we shouldn't have used. I don't call him abusive because that would make me abusive in an equal world right? So many of these threads are "I want to cheat on my DH" and the people write back, yeah your DH is a jerk, he doesn't help aroudn the house enough etc etc. Whenever there is a thread about a guy wanting to cheat on his wife, he's attacked. Yeah...really treated equally huh? I just feel like there are people who claim to be feminists but only want the equal rights that would benefit them, but also want to keep the inequality that makes them seen as someone who is fragile and needs to be treated delicately. Maybe I just have "poser femininist" friends, but it drives me insane.

I also feel, that unfortunately, the views on feminism have been tainted by people who take it to the extreme. I'm all for being able to feed my baby when he's hungry, but I also understand that if I pop my boob out in a crowded mall, some people are going to be uncomfortable. Which is why I try to find a more private place. But, I think the people who freak the eff out over someone being uncomfortable with it and then causing a huge commotion, have tainted what feminism is. Just my two cents

It's interesting that your framework for defining feminism involves cheating spouses and name calling. I'm telling you, you don't understand it. You just don't.

I think that poster is just using examples....not defining it with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to live in a country where we ban words. Yeah, there are people that I think are just crazy. There ARE people who I want to reserve the right to use the strongest of words for.


Words are for proving points. Words are for causing reactions....you don't read books to get the same old bland responses, or maybe you do. I hope that the user of "feminazi" is doing it either 1) to prove a point or 2) to be tounge in cheak.

Nobody is talking about banning the word. I'm the OP and I never mentioned anything about banning it, nor did subsequent posters. However, it would be nice to see it "retired" to the land of unacceptable words. For example, the n-word is not banned, but most people recognized that it is unacceptable to call someone by that word. It generally says more about the person who uses the word than the person at whom it was directed. Would you call someone the n-word to prove a point (using your own example)? Is this the sort of person you want to be?

[Anonymous]

10:40...I think you also make a great point. Several people have posted on this and I think people are confusing what they are trying to say. The issues of feminism have been warped because of the people who take it to the extremes. If you take a poll of most people and ask them what they think of feminists, I guarantee a large part will give examples of people who take it to the extremes. The core of feminism has not changed, but how it is perceived has. The posters who cited examples of calling spouses names or cheating are not saying that that has anything to do with feminism. But it is an example of how the perception of people who call themselves feminists have.

[Anonymous]

modern feminism has been hijacked by extremists. a female equity partner at my ex big law firm, and a self-proclaimed feminist, told her female junior associate that "as a woman lawyer here, you can either be a bitch or a doormat. nothing in between".

[Anonymous]

I took women's studies classes in college and denied being a feminist because I didn't think I had ever been oppressed. I didn't really understand until I started working and began to see the unique pressures, expectations, and discrimination against women in some workplaces, marriages, and households. I think the difficulty is determining how women and men (and others) are different but can be equal too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman and feminazi is the same to me as soup nazi or grammar nazi. The only women who get called feminazi or those who try and impose their views on others.

I don't think feminazi is used when trying to put a woman in her place at all or argue against injustice. It is when they go overboard.

Then again I don't consider myself a feminist myself as I don't see myself as a victim /martyr. I don't see the world through oppression glasses and I don't dislike or try and minimize or vilify men.

Do you really not believe that women do not deserve the same respect and opportunities afforded to men?

Absolutely I do - that does not make me a feminist. I believe in human rights - that every person deserves to be treated with respect and to be given opportunists regardless of gender. I do appreciate the efforts that the early feminists made to equalize our rights. Feminism today bears little resemblance to the early fight for equality. Read these boards - there is a huge double standard. Pretty much every relationships thread started by a man ends up in well it is your fault because you don't do enough for the woman, children and house. Every relationship thread started by a woman turns into the blame for all the relationship woes placed on the man and the woman is such a hero for putting up with a man. This similar thread is seen over and over here. I believe that women are far from perfect, can be equally as manipulative and controlling as men, and are every bit as responsible for their own actions as a man. I do not equalize women by belittling or putting down men or by portraying them as bumbling fools. I believe everyone - including men - deserves to be treated with respect and that disqualifies me from ever calling myself a feminist.

That's EXACTLY what feminists believe. That's pretty much the definition of feminism. Do you really not know that?

No it isn't. Every woman I have ever met who calls herself a feminist has a chip on her shoulder about men and feels as though she has been or is being oppressed. Look at how fathers are treated in family court, is there any push in the feminist movement for father's rights? No of course not. I am not a feminist and I'm okay with that.

Yes, there actually IS a push in the feminist movement for responsible fatherhood (notice the difference)!!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes, there is. I work in a field where I encounter this movement on a regular basis. There is a HUGE difference between the father's rights movement and responsible fatherhood. Look it up. And it's an utter myth that men are not treated fairly in the courts. There has been a sea change in that area, so while you may have been correct if you posted in 1972, it's simply not accurate to say that today. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flame away on my post but I'm going to say it anyways. I can't stand the women who call themselves feminists but then freak out when their DH calls them a bitch after she calls him an asshole. As another poster pointed out, half the women I know who consider themselves feminists use the biggest double standard I've ever seen. If I call my DH an asshole, I really don't care if he calls me a bitch. We both used words we shouldn't have used. I don't call him abusive because that would make me abusive in an equal world right? So many of these threads are "I want to cheat on my DH" and the people write back, yeah your DH is a jerk, he doesn't help aroudn the house enough etc etc. Whenever there is a thread about a guy wanting to cheat on his wife, he's attacked. Yeah...really treated equally huh? I just feel like there are people who claim to be feminists but only want the equal rights that would benefit them, but also want to keep the inequality that makes them seen as someone who is fragile and needs to be treated delicately. Maybe I just have "poser femininist" friends, but it drives me insane.

I also feel, that unfortunately, the views on feminism have been tainted by people who take it to the extreme. I'm all for being able to feed my baby when he's hungry, but I also understand that if I pop my boob out in a crowded mall, some people are going to be uncomfortable. Which is why I try to find a more private place. But, I think the people who freak the eff out over someone being uncomfortable with it and then causing a huge commotion, have tainted what feminism is. Just my two cents

It's interesting that your framework for defining feminism involves cheating spouses and name calling. I'm telling you, you don't understand it. You just don't.

I think that poster is just using examples....not defining it with them.

One in the same in this context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flame away on my post but I'm going to say it anyways. I can't stand the women who call themselves feminists but then freak out when their DH calls them a bitch after she calls him an asshole. As another poster pointed out, half the women I know who consider themselves feminists use the biggest double standard I've ever seen. If I call my DH an asshole, I really don't care if he calls me a bitch. We both used words we shouldn't have used. I don't call him abusive because that would make me abusive in an equal world right? So many of these threads are "I want to cheat on my DH" and the people write back, yeah your DH is a jerk, he doesn't help aroudn the house enough etc etc. Whenever there is a thread about a guy wanting to cheat on his wife, he's attacked. Yeah...really treated equally huh? I just feel like there are people who claim to be feminists but only want the equal rights that would benefit them, but also want to keep the inequality that makes them seen as someone who is fragile and needs to be treated delicately. Maybe I just have "poser femininist" friends, but it drives me insane.

I also feel, that unfortunately, the views on feminism have been tainted by people who take it to the extreme. I'm all for being able to feed my baby when he's hungry, but I also understand that if I pop my boob out in a crowded mall, some people are going to be uncomfortable. Which is why I try to find a more private place. But, I think the people who freak the eff out over someone being uncomfortable with it and then causing a huge commotion, have tainted what feminism is. Just my two cents

It's interesting that your framework for defining feminism involves cheating spouses and name calling. I'm telling you, you don't understand it. You just don't.

I think that poster is just using examples....not defining it with them.

Then her "examples" are patently absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman and feminazi is the same to me as soup nazi or grammar nazi. The only women who get called feminazi or those who try and impose their views on others.

I don't think feminazi is used when trying to put a woman in her place at all or argue against injustice. It is when they go overboard.

Then again I don't consider myself a feminist myself as I don't see myself as a victim /martyr. I don't see the world through oppression glasses and I don't dislike or try and minimize or vilify men.

Do you really not believe that women do not deserve the same respect and opportunities afforded to men?

Absolutely I do - that does not make me a feminist. I believe in human rights - that every person deserves to be treated with respect and to be given opportunists regardless of gender. I do appreciate the efforts that the early feminists made to equalize our rights. Feminism today bears little resemblance to the early fight for equality. Read these boards - there is a huge double standard. Pretty much every relationships thread started by a man ends up in well it is your fault because you don't do enough for the woman, children and house. Every relationship thread started by a woman turns into the blame for all the relationship woes placed on the man and the woman is such a hero for putting up with a man. This similar thread is seen over and over here. I believe that women are far from perfect, can be equally as manipulative and controlling as men, and are every bit as responsible for their own actions as a man. I do not equalize women by belittling or putting down men or by portraying them as bumbling fools. I believe everyone - including men - deserves to be treated with respect and that disqualifies me from ever calling myself a feminist.

That's EXACTLY what feminists believe. That's pretty much the definition of feminism. Do you really not know that?

No it isn't. Every woman I have ever met who calls herself a feminist has a chip on her shoulder about men and feels as though she has been or is being oppressed. Look at how fathers are treated in family court, is there any push in the feminist movement for father's rights? No of course not. I am not a feminist and I'm okay with that.

If you are not a feminist, then you believe that women do NOT deserve to be treated with respect, and that men are MORE deserving of respect than women.

Unless you run in an extremely conservative circle, my guess is that a lot of women you know define themselves as feminist. I rarely say I'm a feminist, but I certainly am. It just doesn't come up in conversation very much. I am clear that I expect to receive the same opportunities as men.

It's easy to say you don't like feminists when you just contort the definition of a feminist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I took women's studies classes in college and denied being a feminist because I didn't think I had ever been oppressed. I didn't really understand until I started working and began to see the unique pressures, expectations, and discrimination against women in some workplaces, marriages, and households. I think the difficulty is determining how women and men (and others) are different but can be equal too.

I agree. I used to make fun of women's studies majors as armpit hair men haters. Then I grew up and started working, went to grad school, had kids and became a working mom, and earn half the HHI. I see things differently now. I'm not a man hater and my feminist attitudes don't change my view of men at all. I think the problems are systemic and I don't go around blaming men. I just want to see women succeed and have the same opportunities. I don't want men to have fewer opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman and feminazi is the same to me as soup nazi or grammar nazi. The only women who get called feminazi or those who try and impose their views on others.

I don't think feminazi is used when trying to put a woman in her place at all or argue against injustice. It is when they go overboard.

Then again I don't consider myself a feminist myself as I don't see myself as a victim /martyr. I don't see the world through oppression glasses and I don't dislike or try and minimize or vilify men.

Do you really not believe that women do not deserve the same respect and opportunities afforded to men?

Absolutely I do - that does not make me a feminist. I believe in human rights - that every person deserves to be treated with respect and to be given opportunists regardless of gender. I do appreciate the efforts that the early feminists made to equalize our rights. Feminism today bears little resemblance to the early fight for equality. Read these boards - there is a huge double standard. Pretty much every relationships thread started by a man ends up in well it is your fault because you don't do enough for the woman, children and house. Every relationship thread started by a woman turns into the blame for all the relationship woes placed on the man and the woman is such a hero for putting up with a man. This similar thread is seen over and over here. I believe that women are far from perfect, can be equally as manipulative and controlling as men, and are every bit as responsible for their own actions as a man. I do not equalize women by belittling or putting down men or by portraying them as bumbling fools. I believe everyone - including men - deserves to be treated with respect and that disqualifies me from ever calling myself a feminist.

That's EXACTLY what feminists believe. That's pretty much the definition of feminism. Do you really not know that?

No it isn't. Every woman I have ever met who calls herself a feminist has a chip on her shoulder about men and feels as though she has been or is being oppressed. Look at how fathers are treated in family court, is there any push in the feminist movement for father's rights? No of course not. I am not a feminist and I'm okay with that.

Yes, there actually IS a push in the feminist movement for responsible fatherhood (notice the difference)!!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes, there is. I work in a field where I encounter this movement on a regular basis. There is a HUGE difference between the father's rights movement and responsible fatherhood. Look it up. And it's an utter myth that men are not treated fairly in the courts. There has been a sea change in that area, so while you may have been correct if you posted in 1972, it's simply not accurate to say that today. At all.

You are kidding right? You are telling me that in 2011 fathers are equally as likely to get sole or primary custody as mothers? You are telling me that mothers are just as likely to be given every other weekend and once a week visitation as fathers? You are telling me that in 2011 just as many mothers are in court fighting to see their kids as fathers?

[Anonymous]

No, I'm telling you that in 2011 fathers are just as likely to get joint custody as mothers. Mothers are just as likely to get joint custody as fathers. There is a huge presumption of joint custody now, even when there is domestic violence involved or other issues. And yes, in 2011, there are just as many mothers, if you're going through the pool of non-joint-custody holders, fighting for custody as there are fathers. The fact is that very few parents are likely to get sole or primary custody anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman and feminazi is the same to me as soup nazi or grammar nazi. The only women who get called feminazi or those who try and impose their views on others.

I don't think feminazi is used when trying to put a woman in her place at all or argue against injustice. It is when they go overboard.

Then again I don't consider myself a feminist myself as I don't see myself as a victim /martyr. I don't see the world through oppression glasses and I don't dislike or try and minimize or vilify men.

Do you really not believe that women do not deserve the same respect and opportunities afforded to men?

Absolutely I do - that does not make me a feminist. I believe in human rights - that every person deserves to be treated with respect and to be given opportunists regardless of gender. I do appreciate the efforts that the early feminists made to equalize our rights. Feminism today bears little resemblance to the early fight for equality. Read these boards - there is a huge double standard. Pretty much every relationships thread started by a man ends up in well it is your fault because you don't do enough for the woman, children and house. Every relationship thread started by a woman turns into the blame for all the relationship woes placed on the man and the woman is such a hero for putting up with a man. This similar thread is seen over and over here. I believe that women are far from perfect, can be equally as manipulative and controlling as men, and are every bit as responsible for their own actions as a man. I do not equalize women by belittling or putting down men or by portraying them as bumbling fools. I believe everyone - including men - deserves to be treated with respect and that disqualifies me from ever calling myself a feminist.

That's EXACTLY what feminists believe. That's pretty much the definition of feminism. Do you really not know that?

No it isn't. Every woman I have ever met who calls herself a feminist has a chip on her shoulder about men and feels as though she has been or is being oppressed. Look at how fathers are treated in family court, is there any push in the feminist movement for father's rights? No of course not. I am not a feminist and I'm okay with that.

If you are not a feminist, then you believe that women do NOT deserve to be treated with respect, and that men are MORE deserving of respect than women.

Unless you run in an extremely conservative circle, my guess is that a lot of women you know define themselves as feminist. I rarely say I'm a feminist, but I certainly am. It just doesn't come up in conversation very much. I am clear that I expect to receive the same opportunities as men.

It's easy to say you don't like feminists when you just contort the definition of a feminist.

Feminism doesn't own respect for women. Someone who is not a feminist can believe that men and women deserve to be treated equally and with respect. I don't run in extremely conservative circles and you'd be surprised at the number of educated, professional women who are distancing themselves from the feminist label and identity. Feminist does not have a positive connotation for me. I have read up on feminism - it doesn't describe my viewpoint nor do feminists who put themselves out there as the voice of the movement. You can respect women without being a feminist.

[Anonymous]

The thing that a lot of these "I'm not a feminist but..." women seem to not realize is that many of the things that they say after the "but" are feminist issues. Feminism is and has always been a collection of issues, with the unifying theme being "the empowerment of women." I agree that many aspects of the feminist movement seem out of place in the US in the 21st century (voting rights, for example, and not being legally barred from entering most professions or driving a car). I think it is also important to realize that feminism is not solely an American movement and that many of those issues are extremely relevant to women's lives in other countries. I think that most American woman would agree that women in Saudi Arabia should not be legally banned from driving a car. I think that most American women would agree that women should not be executed for adultery if they are raped. These are feminist issues. They are human rights issues too. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

When the "I'm not a feminist but..." crowd starts making their statements, I try to make it less about "the movement" and more about the specific issues. There is room for disagreement and diversity of opinions on the legal right to have an abortion if you want to get one, on the availability of birth control, etc. There is room for disagreement and variety of options on how to birth, feed and raise children, in the same way that there is room for disagreement and variety of options on what shoes to wear and what career to pursue. The point, as far as I'm concerned, is a "freedom of choice" point - I, as an adult woman, have the right to choose for myself. I do not need my husband, father or brother to make these choices for me.

I think it is very important to remember that the socio-political climate in the US now, in 2011, is very different than the socio-political climate in 1960, 1910, 1790, etc. It's different for women. It's different for men. It's different for people of color. It's different for non-heterosexual people. It's different for people with disabilities. Many of the issues that were very relevant in 1910 are irrelevant now - I'm 30 years old and I have never once been concerned that I would be denied the right to vote. I've never once been concerned that I would be denied the right to hold property in my own name. These were issues for generations past which have largely been solved for my generation in the culture where I live. Other issues, like things related to employment and things related to healthcare and reproductive rights, were not relevant in the past the way they are relevant now. If women are expected not to work outside the home, issues like equal pay for equal work and duration and compensation during maternity leave would not come up.

I agree that there are some individuals with very incindiary rhetoric on both sides. This is the nature of debating issues that people are passionate about. I do not see "feminism" as being a radical movement anymore, in the same way that Catholicism is not a radical movement anymore, despite its historic origins.

Basically, ladies who say "I'm not a feminist but...", you can identify yourselves however you want to. I support your choice to affiliate yourself or not affiliate yourselves with the feminist movement. What I cannot support is the perpetuation of misinformation like "feminists hate men" and "feminists hate bras" and "feminists have double standards" because that's just as inaccurate for you to say about me as it would be for me to say that you are hateful towards other women and doormats to your husbands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing that a lot of these "I'm not a feminist but..." women seem to not realize is that many of the things that they say after the "but" are feminist issues. Feminism is and has always been a collection of issues, with the unifying theme being "the empowerment of women." I agree that many aspects of the feminist movement seem out of place in the US in the 21st century (voting rights, for example, and not being legally barred from entering most professions or driving a car). I think it is also important to realize that feminism is not solely an American movement and that many of those issues are extremely relevant to women's lives in other countries. I think that most American woman would agree that women in Saudi Arabia should not be legally banned from driving a car. I think that most American women would agree that women should not be executed for adultery if they are raped. These are feminist issues. They are human rights issues too. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

When the "I'm not a feminist but..." crowd starts making their statements, I try to make it less about "the movement" and more about the specific issues. There is room for disagreement and diversity of opinions on the legal right to have an abortion if you want to get one, on the availability of birth control, etc. There is room for disagreement and variety of options on how to birth, feed and raise children, in the same way that there is room for disagreement and variety of options on what shoes to wear and what career to pursue. The point, as far as I'm concerned, is a "freedom of choice" point - I, as an adult woman, have the right to choose for myself. I do not need my husband, father or brother to make these choices for me.

I think it is very important to remember that the socio-political climate in the US now, in 2011, is very different than the socio-political climate in 1960, 1910, 1790, etc. It's different for women. It's different for men. It's different for people of color. It's different for non-heterosexual people. It's different for people with disabilities. Many of the issues that were very relevant in 1910 are irrelevant now - I'm 30 years old and I have never once been concerned that I would be denied the right to vote. I've never once been concerned that I would be denied the right to hold property in my own name. These were issues for generations past which have largely been solved for my generation in the culture where I live. Other issues, like things related to employment and things related to healthcare and reproductive rights, were not relevant in the past the way they are relevant now. If women are expected not to work outside the home, issues like equal pay for equal work and duration and compensation during maternity leave would not come up.

I agree that there are some individuals with very incindiary rhetoric on both sides. This is the nature of debating issues that people are passionate about. I do not see "feminism" as being a radical movement anymore, in the same way that Catholicism is not a radical movement anymore, despite its historic origins.

Basically, ladies who say "I'm not a feminist but...", you can identify yourselves however you want to. I support your choice to affiliate yourself or not affiliate yourselves with the feminist movement. What I cannot support is the perpetuation of misinformation like "feminists hate men" and "feminists hate bras" and "feminists have double standards" because that's just as inaccurate for you to say about me as it would be for me to say that you are hateful towards other women and doormats to your husbands.

Brava! Very well written post. I hope the non feminists read it carefully.