Question for atheists RE: 9/11

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand OP, how you can still believe after hearing the victims scream OH GOD...and him answer them with death. The idea that God would hear them and let them die in fear and pain after they called out to him as some part of his great awesome plan? That is what scares me most about God. I hope he's not real.

I've really struggled with this too, and here is what I've come up with: Try to step back and look at it from a broad, rather than individual person, point of view. We perceive that these lives were cut short, but is it possible that their purpose on earth was finished? Everyone is going to die and few of us have a choice in how it happens. As horrible, frightening and painful as we know/ imagine the 9/11 deaths to be, were they "worse" than dying a painful drawn-out death from AIDs, cancer, starvation or something else? And is God answering with death necessarily the worst thing, at least to a believer?

People want to have some kind of explanation or rationale and don't want to believe something "just happens". It sounds like one of the things OP find perplexing is that both the terrorists and victims all die together and could share the same fate. Some people want to imagine the victims in white nighgowns with wings and halos ascending to the heavens while the terrorists go burn and suffer in the fires of hell. Somehow OP and others want there to be some "justice" or reason why it happens or punishment for those who deserve it. Seems very childish to me and the very reason why religion exists--to explain the inexplicable and provide people with a really simplisitc and satisfying explanation. Obviously there is not enough real justice on this planet/in this life and it's very, very satisfying to imagine that the bad dudes will die but go on to get their big ol' punishment from the devil and the good guys will really be rewarded in the afterlife, achieving peace and loveliness, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

Eh? Other mammals don't eat eachother (i.e. same species). They also protect the weak and help the sick/elderly ... haven't you ever watched a nature show? Just because it isn't exactly the way we do it doesn't make us so completely special.

Don't female praying mantises eat male praying mantises?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

Eh? Other mammals don't eat eachother (i.e. same species). They also protect the weak and help the sick/elderly ... haven't you ever watched a nature show? Just because it isn't exactly the way we do it doesn't make us so completely special.

Don't female praying mantises eat male praying mantises?

How ironic that they're "praying" mantises! lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Those victims who screamed "Oh God" as they died...did they just cease to exist?

Atheist here. The answer to your question for me is "yes." You cease to exist when you die.

You can scream anything you want and it doesn't change the outcome, in my belief paradigm.

Feel free to bait me with any further questions. I'll be similarly succinct.

B..b..but... that would be disappointing! Surely the world cannot work that way!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

Eh? Other mammals don't eat eachother (i.e. same species). They also protect the weak and help the sick/elderly ... haven't you ever watched a nature show? Just because it isn't exactly the way we do it doesn't make us so completely special.

Don't female praying mantises eat male praying mantises?

Some might say that makes them smarter than humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:6. Therefore the chance of a Universe is God.

Or to put things another way, "The chance of a wedding is potato."

Oh, and by the way, you're thinking about time all wrong. There is no "beginning", so your argument is based on a fallacy.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/09/01/ten-things-everyone-should-know-about-time/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if humans aren't special, why do we care when they die, if we don't know them or if they were just regular people? Why not oppress weaker and less intelligent humans for the benefit of the stronger and smarter?

Why did the almost the whole world mourn with us on 9/11?

What world are you living in? In my world, humans do oppress weaker, poorer, and less advantaged humans every day.

If there were no God, wouldn't we see a lot of crimes and atrocities being committed? Especially in countries where there is no strong central government to provide law and order? Why don't we see such a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if humans aren't special, why do we care when they die, if we don't know them or if they were just regular people? Why not oppress weaker and less intelligent humans for the benefit of the stronger and smarter?

Why did the almost the whole world mourn with us on 9/11?

What world are you living in? In my world, humans do oppress weaker, poorer, and less advantaged humans every day.

If there were no God, wouldn't we see a lot of crimes and atrocities being committed? Especially in countries where there is no strong central government to provide law and order? Why don't we see such a thing?

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if humans aren't special, why do we care when they die, if we don't know them or if they were just regular people? Why not oppress weaker and less intelligent humans for the benefit of the stronger and smarter?

Why did the almost the whole world mourn with us on 9/11?

What world are you living in? In my world, humans do oppress weaker, poorer, and less advantaged humans every day.

If there were no God, wouldn't we see a lot of crimes and atrocities being committed? Especially in countries where there is no strong central government to provide law and order? Why don't we see such a thing?

Is this a joke? Surely you are being ironic or sarcastic or something right? No one could be this naive in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6. Therefore the chance of a Universe is God.

Or to put things another way, "The chance of a wedding is potato."

Oh, and by the way, you're thinking about time all wrong. There is no "beginning", so your argument is based on a fallacy.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/09/01/ten-things-everyone-should-know-about-time/

I need a better link than that. None of the top ten things in the link discuss whether time has a beginning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6. Therefore the chance of a Universe is God.

Or to put things another way, "The chance of a wedding is potato."

Oh, and by the way, you're thinking about time all wrong. There is no "beginning", so your argument is based on a fallacy.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/09/01/ten-things-everyone-should-know-about-time/

I need a better link than that. None of the top ten things in the link discuss whether time has a beginning.

Oh, please. I'm assuming you're the "the universe came into being, therefore....God!" poster, so it's not like any "science-y cites" are going to bring you around. I think we had this conversation a few months ago, where you thought the fact that the Big Bang was proof of God's existence, whereas in fact you only proved that the Big Bang was proof of the Big Bang's existence.

God isn't complicated because St Augustine said so, right? Hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don't understand that whole differentiation between humans and animals. Most people completely underestimate animals. We're just a different kind of one as far as I'm concerned.

So why don't we use one another as food? Why do we protect the weak and heal the sick? Why do we care for the elderly? Why do we even notice that it feels wrong to sneak up on someone and hit them over the head? What makes us different from instinctual mammalian behavior?

Eh? Other mammals don't eat eachother (i.e. same species). They also protect the weak and help the sick/elderly ... haven't you ever watched a nature show? Just because it isn't exactly the way we do it doesn't make us so completely special.

Don't female praying mantises eat male praying mantises?

Since when were praying mantises mammals??!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if humans aren't special, why do we care when they die, if we don't know them or if they were just regular people? Why not oppress weaker and less intelligent humans for the benefit of the stronger and smarter?

Why did the almost the whole world mourn with us on 9/11?

What world are you living in? In my world, humans do oppress weaker, poorer, and less advantaged humans every day.

If there were no God, wouldn't we see a lot of crimes and atrocities being committed? Especially in countries where there is no strong central government to provide law and order? Why don't we see such a thing?

Is this a joke? Surely you are being ironic or sarcastic or something right? No one could be this naive in real life.

Yep, that was the funniest thing I read all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yet, we are the only animal that does this on a regular basis. Other animals usually kill to eat, not for fun or malice.

Except cats. Which is why we are better than them. QED.

Wow, is this really true. Cats kill for sport? Just holdhold cats? Lions and Tigers Too? This is very interesting!

So do orcas. The way we can tell is that they are playing with their victims. But it is very possible that other species do similar things but that we can't tell. How could you tell if a fish is being malicious? What would that look like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yet, we are the only animal that does this on a regular basis. Other animals usually kill to eat, not for fun or malice.

Except cats. Which is why we are better than them. QED.

Wow, is this really true. Cats kill for sport? Just holdhold cats? Lions and Tigers Too? This is very interesting!

So do orcas. The way we can tell is that they are playing with their victims. But it is very possible that other species do similar things but that we can't tell. How could you tell if a fish is being malicious? What would that look like?

The point is not whether or not they are kind to their prey. It is whether or not they eat their prey. They may very well enjoy killing but the main purpose of the killing is for food.