Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

Results from a school although it is not a local school. I know there are some local schools that post their results. Of course, given this schools results, I guess they can brag.

Nat'l Merit Awards 73% of the Class of 2011 received some level of recognition, including 11 Finalists, 18 Commended, and 3 Winners out of a class of 50.

Average SAT scores: Class of 2011: Critical Reading 730, Math 760, Writing 750. Average for all three sections combined: 2201

AP stats: 91% of scores generated by the Class of 2011 were 4 or 5 (60% were 5)

[Anonymous]

Now you've got to tell us the name of the school. Those stats are amazing.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I've been reading through this thread, and I guess that one thing that I've been wondering is when I pick a HS for my DC (I'm about to star looking) there are several factors to consider. Of course I want the best "fit" and the best education I can find, but part of that is the big picture. My DC is going to be college-bound. So, looking forward, how is each HS seen in the eyes of the colleges? If the HS is seen as avg. my DC will have a harder time when applying to the same college than if the college sees that HS as higher-than-avg. And if my DC could be accepted to either HS as easily, it would help me to know ("fit" being equal) which would be the better choice, in that case. Sometimes there are glaring differences. I'll grant you that. But not always. And when it's a case where it's pretty much a toss up between school #1 and school #2 in terms of where your DC would be happier, that additional information could be very helpful. I just know that right now, I'm not really sure how to objectively know how one school's academics really rank against another's. Colleges have books. There are 3, 4, 5 star colleges and universities, and you're told what the stars mean. And they're updated every few years. And their based on faculty and incoming test scores and requirements for graduation... I just wish there were some kind of guide like that to help with HS admissions. I'm not suggesting that my DC would qualify for the Harvard of HS, but it would help me figure out which Scilla are out of reach, which ones I should be looking at, and which ones have the types of programs DC might be interested in (science vs English or history vs Spanish) as an ongoing concentration toward college.

[Anonymous]

Sorry... "they're" and "schools"
Autocorrect!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I've been reading through this thread, and I guess that one thing that I've been wondering is when I pick a HS for my DC (I'm about to star looking) there are several factors to consider. Of course I want the best "fit" and the best education I can find, but part of that is the big picture. My DC is going to be college-bound. So, looking forward, how is each HS seen in the eyes of the colleges? If the HS is seen as avg. my DC will have a harder time when applying to the same college than if the college sees that HS as higher-than-avg. And if my DC could be accepted to either HS as easily, it would help me to know ("fit" being equal) which would be the better choice, in that case. Sometimes there are glaring differences. I'll grant you that. But not always. And when it's a case where it's pretty much a toss up between school #1 and school #2 in terms of where your DC would be happier, that additional information could be very helpful. I just know that right now, I'm not really sure how to objectively know how one school's academics really rank against another's. Colleges have books. There are 3, 4, 5 star colleges and universities, and you're told what the stars mean. And they're updated every few years. And their based on faculty and incoming test scores and requirements for graduation... I just wish there were some kind of guide like that to help with HS admissions. I'm not suggesting that my DC would qualify for the Harvard of HS, but it would help me figure out which Scilla are out of reach, which ones I should be looking at, and which ones have the types of programs DC might be interested in (science vs English or history vs Spanish) as an ongoing concentration toward college.

You would visit the schools to figure it out - ask the administration at your current school - talk to families who have BTDT.

SATs would not give you this information.

Then you might decide to send your kid to an average school so he can be top of his class instead of a "harvard hs" where he might be middling.

[Anonymous]

But SATs might knock her out of the running if the school she chooses can't ultimately deliver the scores and another school does because it does better teaching vocabulary, for instance... If she ends up looking at schools that have a certain SAT range and her DC hasn't been taught the vocab for the verbal portion and the scores are too low to apply to certain schools. (Just playing devil's advocate. Don't actually have a dog in this fight. FYI.)

[Anonymous]

The last few comments demonstrate why it's shortsighted to pick schools based solely on some cold statistic. Sure the numbers can help guide you to possible contenders, but you ultimately need to evaluate each school subjectively to gauge how it will serve your child.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely agree. I also agree that there's something to be said for having as much information as possible to make an informed decision. I'm not sure why that has people so angry. We do it in every other aspect of our lives and are considered foolhardy if we don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But SATs might knock her out of the running if the school she chooses can't ultimately deliver the scores and another school does because it does better teaching vocabulary, for instance... If she ends up looking at schools that have a certain SAT range and her DC hasn't been taught the vocab for the verbal portion and the scores are too low to apply to certain schools. (Just playing devil's advocate. Don't actually have a dog in this fight. FYI.)

I would like a list of schools that teach vocabulary - so I can avoid them like the plague. I can just picture my son's head on the desk asleep.

I don't think a school or a SAT prep course will significantly affect test scores.

If a kid likes to read and write - they do it more often and therefore they are good at it. Their verbal scores will show it.

If kids can think logically and enjoys math they will do better on the math and reasoning sections of tests.

I do think tests measure aptitude to some degree but not quality of their education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But SATs might knock her out of the running if the school she chooses can't ultimately deliver the scores and another school does because it does better teaching vocabulary, for instance... If she ends up looking at schools that have a certain SAT range and her DC hasn't been taught the vocab for the verbal portion and the scores are too low to apply to certain schools. (Just playing devil's advocate. Don't actually have a dog in this fight. FYI.)

I don't think any good school teaches vocabulary. What a terrible waste of classroom time. You want that?

And what if you choose a private school with super fabulous SAT scores but your DC scores in the low range of those scores? Then won't your having sent that child to that school actually harm tehir chances of getting into the college of their choice? Its actually been studied that kids who go to these competitive private schools have a more difficult time getting into a top college. If thats what your goal is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... there's something to be said for having as much information as possible to make an informed decision. I'm not sure why that has people so angry. We do it in every other aspect of our lives and are considered foolhardy if we don't.

I absolutely agree with you that parents should look for whatever information they feel is necessary to make informed decisions. I just don't think private schools have any obligation to give it to you.

As an analogy, when it's time for me to ask my employer for a raise, I really want to know how much other people in my field generally get paid, how much my co-workers are getting paid, what performance bonuses and other perks they receive, and how much money my employer has in the budget for salary increases. I will work hard to obtain that info. But should my employer be obligated to divulge any of this info to me? Should other similar institutions be "transparent" with their numbers? Nope to both questions. I won't divulge to my employer that I'm willing to skip a salary increase in exchange for a bigger office, or that I'm secretly looking to change jobs. So I don't think my employer has any obligation to disclose it's private info to me.

[Anonymous]

would like a list of schools that teach vocabulary - so I can avoid them like the plague. I can just picture my son's head on the desk asleep.

I don't think a school or a SAT prep course will significantly affect test scores.

If a kid likes to read and write - they do it more often and therefore they are good at it. Their verbal scores will show it.

If kids can think logically and enjoys math they will do better on the math and reasoning sections of tests.

I do think tests measure aptitude to some degree but not quality of their education.

I fail to see what this drivel has to do with providing families with outcome data to allow them to make informed decisions about schools. When in doubt, more information is better than less, families are capable of sorting out wheat from chaff. Families do not need your assistance in this matter. We prefer the methodology and the data so we can draw our own inferences. We are not interested in swallowing your refried conclusions.

[Anonymous]

I absolutely agree with you that parents should look for whatever information they feel is necessary to make informed decisions. I just don't think private schools have any obligation to give it to you.

Private schools may choose to withhold data and information. They have no obligation. But, when this information is tied to the educational mission these schools withholding this data is done at their own peril. No one is interested in sports scores...unless you are Landon or some other institution of similar ilk defined soley by this muscular mission.

[Anonymous]

Are you out of your mind? Every school teaches vocabulary -- most obviously through spelling, language instruction, and literature, but also in every other field -- e.g. science, history, math, even PE. Some of that instruction is curricular. In other cases, it's more opportunistic and comes out of things like classroom discussions. But, it's always there and some schools certainly do it better than others.

Back to the original question. Short answer is (a) because they don't have to and (b) because (for a variety of reasons that no doubt vary from school to school) that's not the basis on which they want to sell themselves.

[Anonymous]

Previous poster here in re: vocab. That's what I meant. I certainly never meant to imply specific vocab classes. Sorry for the confusion. What I meant was higher vocabulary through reading choices, classroom discussions, science, history, English, etc. texts. Overall curriculum. And that holds true for overall math and science curriculum, too. It bothers me that so many feel that children who will do well on the SATs are those who are inherently interested in those subjects. I disliked math throughout HS, but had good teachers, was required (as part of the curriculum) to continue through senior yr and did well on the math portion. I would hope the same would be true for our DC in both verbal and math, regardless of subject preference.