Amy Winehouse has died

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I know that addiction is an awful thing but I find the comparison to cancer somewhat offensive, especially since I lost my Dad to a very aggressive cancer and I have seen numerous other friends and acquaintances suffer through it. You don't have choices with cancer, you can't prevent it and often there are no effective treatments. If you are an addict, you can make a conscience choice to turn your life around or not.

I am very sorry to hear about your dad.

I am not the PP you are arguing with, but rather the PP with an addicted brother. Unfortunately, your offense just shows that you don't understand addiction, as a disease. That's okay, I do not understand M.S. or cancer, for instance, or any other health issues like an expert, because I am not one. The concept that addicts always have a "choice" is misleading. Addiction is amazingly, amazingly powerful. There is a physical element involved. Withdrawal causes excruciating physical and mental anguish. Not to mention, once an addict removes him / herself from the drugs, on top of the physical pain and confusion is a return of the original mental health symptoms that in many cases led to the addiction. While there are certainly some people who quite willfully start using hard drugs out of a desire to be "cool," or something else less driven by mental health than just recklessness, the vast majority of addicts are desperately self-medicating their mental illness. And many, like Amy Winehouse and my brother, started using as children. So the "choice" to start using is not as black and white as you see it, and the "choice" to recover is enormously hard. There are some cancers (clearly, as you say, not your father's) that people can, in fact, prevent or at least make it less likely they'll get. Do smokers deserve to die? Do people who worshipped the sun before we really knew how bad it was deserve to die? Does your father deserve to have random people on a listserv talking about whether or not he had a "choice" to recover or prevent his cancer without knowing exactly what type of cancer he is dealing with and the circumstances of his life? NO. He doesn't. And neither does an addict deserve to have a group of people feeling offended that someone might compare his illness with any other, unless that person knows his life story and why he is addicted, and what it means to be addicted, and why people become addicted, and what is really involved with recovery.

Unless you have walked a mile in another's footsteps.........

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The judgemental assholes on here are no surprise to me.
They live in their upper-middle class bubbles where no one takes drugs or does anything deemed "low-class" and "scummy".

Hopefully they never have to deal with addiction or mental problems in their family.

I hope you are at peace now Amy.

...only sneaking lines of coke in the bathroom. They're just as bad, but they don't talk about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:using heroin is stupid. EVERYONE knows the risks. might as well be playing russian roulette. I am not losing sleep over any addict's OD. Addicts are criminals and a huge cost to society. They deserve a chance at recovery, but the habitual addicts are hopeless.

You should educate yourself about addiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Addiction kills. Just like cancer. It just manifests differently.

I understand the anger people are expressing in this thread. We attempted tough love and it failed. He died. But we didn't have another option. I imagine Amy and her family didn't either.

My heart is with all of them tonight.

I know that addiction is an awful thing but I find the comparison to cancer somewhat offensive, especially since I lost my Dad to a very aggressive cancer and I have seen numerous other friends and acquaintances suffer through it. You don't have choices with cancer, you can't prevent it and often there are no effective treatments. If you are an addict, you can make a conscience choice to turn your life around or not.

Opiate addiction is more deadly than most cancers.

I, too, have lost family members and friends to cancer, but I don't agree with you when you say cancer cannot be prevented. Many forms of cancer are related to behavior. And certainly addiction can actually cause cancer.

[Anonymous]

I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

You're entitled to your feelings, however, no one is personally attacking you or your poor mother. The world is not so black and white, good vs. bad. It's naive to believe that there is never a correlation between addiction (or even behavior) and cancer. It's a fact that addiction is strongly associated with many forms of cancer. Liver cancer is linked to alcoholism, as well as obesity and diabetes (potentially caused by food addiction). Smoking--including smoking drugs--has has been linked to cancer of the lung, breast, bladder, cervix and kidney. Chewing tobacco has been linked to cancer of the oral cavity and pancreas. Cancer of the breast, prostate, lung, colon and kidney can be linked to obesity. Sex, alcohol, and drug addictions lead to risky behavior and can increase the risk of HIV, HPV, Hep B & C, which in turn can lead to numerous forms of cancer, e.g., anus, cervix, lung, penis, throat, vulva, vagina, liver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

You're entitled to your feelings, however, no one is personally attacking you or your poor mother. The world is not so black and white, good vs. bad. It's naive to believe that there is never a correlation between addiction (or even behavior) and cancer. It's a fact that addiction is strongly associated with many forms of cancer. Liver cancer is linked to alcoholism, as well as obesity and diabetes (potentially caused by food addiction). Smoking--including smoking drugs--has has been linked to cancer of the lung, breast, bladder, cervix and kidney. Chewing tobacco has been linked to cancer of the oral cavity and pancreas. Cancer of the breast, prostate, lung, colon and kidney can be linked to obesity. Sex, alcohol, and drug addictions lead to risky behavior and can increase the risk of HIV, HPV, Hep B & C, which in turn can lead to numerous forms of cancer, e.g., anus, cervix, lung, penis, throat, vulva, vagina, liver.

fine, but that's not relevant or particularly rational. my mother's cancer was not caused by addiction, nor is addiction always, or even usually, a precursor to cancer. cancer kills the innocent.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read any responses so sorry if this has been covered already, but does anyone find it interesting or weird that so many "greats" died at age 27? Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janice Joplin, Curt Cobain, and now Amy Winehouse? It gives me the chills.

[Anonymous]

I was just at the National Association of Drug Court Professionals' annual conference last week. All of the current research states that alcoholism and other addictions should clearly be treated in the medical model, that is, they are just as much a disease as any other. As a PP mentioned, many addicts are self-medicating and have co-occuring mental health disorders. I think what gets a lot of people upset is that there is an element of choice with addictions, whereas with cancer, many cancer patients had no choice. It's hard for me to sometimes think of addictions as a disease (my father is an alcoholic; his father died of cancer, as did my mother's parents), but according to the medical profession, it is very much a disease and research that shows the physical affect of drugs and alcohol on the brain is both frightening and fascinating.

[Anonymous]

I think it is pretty clear at this point that Amy Winehouse suffered from manic depression and/or Bipolar disorder. Drug abuse is often a symptom of those disorders rather than the cause of them. Many people suffer from mental health diseases that are still unfortunately stigmatized or seen as " different" than physical diseases. The posters " blaming" Amy for her death are likely more ignorant than hateful. I hope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

You're entitled to your feelings, however, no one is personally attacking you or your poor mother. The world is not so black and white, good vs. bad. It's naive to believe that there is never a correlation between addiction (or even behavior) and cancer. It's a fact that addiction is strongly associated with many forms of cancer. Liver cancer is linked to alcoholism, as well as obesity and diabetes (potentially caused by food addiction). Smoking--including smoking drugs--has has been linked to cancer of the lung, breast, bladder, cervix and kidney. Chewing tobacco has been linked to cancer of the oral cavity and pancreas. Cancer of the breast, prostate, lung, colon and kidney can be linked to obesity. Sex, alcohol, and drug addictions lead to risky behavior and can increase the risk of HIV, HPV, Hep B & C, which in turn can lead to numerous forms of cancer, e.g., anus, cervix, lung, penis, throat, vulva, vagina, liver.

y
fine, but that's not relevant or particularly rational. mmother's cancer was not caused by addiction, nor is addiction always, or even usually, a precursor to cancer. cancer kills the innocent.

No one said it was. You're not being rational.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

First, I am very sorry about your mother. I hope you find peace.

I'm the poster with the brother battling addiction. Did you read all of my posts? He started when he was 10 years old. Amy Winehouse started using at 13. I don't know her story, but there were things that happened to my brother - external things - and by all accounts and according to every therapist and doctor he has talked with and who has tried to help him, there are severe mental illnesses (several) happening.

I think there are two layers to this equation. First, many folks do not realize that mental illness includes addiction. True, hardcore addiction is a symptom of another mental illness usually. This may not always be true of casual drug use, but the more casual users are the ones that can "choose" to get themselves back out of the rabbit hole. A real addict's "self" has been gutted and completely hollowed out by drugs. The disease has taken over nearly all other elements of his / her personality, like a rapidly metastasizing cancer. Recovery from a heroin addiction is as impossible for many as recovery from late stage cancer. This makes you shake with anger? I am angry, too. I am angry that addiction is a terrible disease, just like cancer. I am angry that so many people remain so terribly, terribly ignorant.

The second level I discussed is that there are many people, in this world, who think that mental illness is different from other types of illness. Never mind that there are observable chemical differences in the brain in mental illness patients that are not present in normal people. If it is something someone can observe as being personality-related, many don't "buy" that it is a disease. Yet, the chemistry is similar to most disease. Mental illness is usually caused by a physical, chemical abnormality or malfunction. It can be triggered (like a number of diseases, including M.S.) by stress and external factors.

BTW, I don't blame smokers for their cancer deaths, nor do I blame sunseekers for their cancer deaths. I don't blame people for cancers that I believe are environmentally generated at all. To do so is terrible. But to "shake with anger" that someone would explain to you how disease is disease is disease, and illness is illness, and mental illness is real, is misguided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am HORRIFIED at the likening of cancer to addiction. I have lost family members to both and the ones who died of cancer, my extremely health-conscious mother included, could have done NOTHING to prevent it. That is simply not true with addiction - you can't always beat it, but you can TRY.

I'm actually shaking with anger at this comparison.

You're entitled to your feelings, however, no one is personally attacking you or your poor mother. The world is not so black and white, good vs. bad. It's naive to believe that there is never a correlation between addiction (or even behavior) and cancer. It's a fact that addiction is strongly associated with many forms of cancer. Liver cancer is linked to alcoholism, as well as obesity and diabetes (potentially caused by food addiction). Smoking--including smoking drugs--has has been linked to cancer of the lung, breast, bladder, cervix and kidney. Chewing tobacco has been linked to cancer of the oral cavity and pancreas. Cancer of the breast, prostate, lung, colon and kidney can be linked to obesity. Sex, alcohol, and drug addictions lead to risky behavior and can increase the risk of HIV, HPV, Hep B & C, which in turn can lead to numerous forms of cancer, e.g., anus, cervix, lung, penis, throat, vulva, vagina, liver.

fine, but that's not relevant or particularly rational. my mother's cancer was not caused by addiction, nor is addiction always, or even usually, a precursor to cancer. cancer kills the innocent.

No cancer kills the innocent, the guilty and everything on the spectrum in between.

Acknowledging addiction as an illness does not take all responsibility for choices away from the addict. If someone has heart disease that was cause din part by stress, working too much, eating on the run - yes they could have made different choices but it doesn't change the fact that heart disease is still a medical condition that needs treatment. Same with obesity, while poor choices around eating and exercise are part of it they oversimplify the issue and the development of diabetes and other high blood pressure are still diseases even if they come solely from the actions of the person. I doubt someone who died from heart disease or a stroke would merit the same distaste and lack of compassion as are expressed here, even though they too made choices that contributed to their own demise.

I agree too that addiction is often hand in hand with mental illness and that further fogs the choices one makes.

[Anonymous]

How in the hell is Courtney Love still alive??? Just saw a recent pic of her. She is definitely back on drugs.

[Anonymous]

Addiction IS a complicated issue. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I have read some research on the subject that stated that some people are more prone to addiction then others, depending on a large number of factors (the article was not discussing mental illness issues and self-medicating, it was about 'recreational' drug use only). Some people can use drugs for decades and still remain somewhat in control of their usage (Keith Richards, anyone??), and some people, once they start, become full-blown addicts in no time. Same goes for alcoholics. But it is a known fact, that if someone starts using as a teen or a young adult, their chances of getting seriously hooked are way higher than they would be for someone who starts using at, say, 30.

PP, I am very sorry about your brother. And I am sorry about Amy Winehouse.