Do Rock Creek Forest parents know about potential changes to SP Immersion, middle school, etc. ?

[Anonymous]

@17:35 Thanks for the clarification. I feel like I do know a number of EA parents from working on whole-school activities and fundraisers, from after-school activities that my child participates in, etc.

After working hard to do things that benefit the entire school, I would be sorry to learn that they just don't care what happens to the SI kids. When I've contributed my time or money to school things, it never occurred to me to ask that this benefit only SI kids. Now I wonder if that would go the other way.

[Anonymous]

"I am sorry that you have not gotten to know many of the parents in the SI program. I expect that you do not know many EA parents outside of your child's class. "

Hum... no not really.

Though walking to school, playing on the playground after school, our neighborhood list serv, block parties etc. - I would guess that I know about 75% or more of the EA children (in all 6 grades - K-5). This is first and foremost a neighborhood school - and so often this gets lost.

I am truly indifferent about this situation so I will stop posting here.

I will vote against any PTA measure that states we are one big happy family. We are two programs housed in one building.

A few families may have strong ties across both programs - but from my experience in the school - this is not the norm.

I don't care if the SI children continue through Westland. I certainly do NOT oppose this. However, I do not want "school unity" to be used as a reason to maintain the current system.

My only point is that we aren't one school - but two schools housed in one building.

As for the neighborhood children in SI - there are more in the lower grades than in the upper grades. (This increase seems to coincides with when the county started using an outside firm to complete the lottery but that could be purely coincidental.) Their parents should weigh in on this situation and some already done so in informal meetings.

I hope the increase in neighborhood children in the SI program will help bridge the gap between the two programs.

I have nothing against SI kids going to Westland - I just don't want to be used in the process.

[Anonymous]

What about all the time and effort SI parents put into the school that has benefitted your children? Does that count for nothing?

[Anonymous]

English Academy parents certainly appreciate the fundraising and volunteer hours that Spanish Immersion parents dedicate to Rock Creek Forest.

Their good intentions and dedication do not make up for the following:

English Academy children have approximately half of the resources (books, texts, any type of written materials) than students in other MCPS Elementary School have available. This is because the materials can not be shared across the programs.

So for example, the RCF library has less books available for English Academy children to take out because MCPS provides the same book allowance to RCF as it does to other Elementary Schools of similar size. The difference is that the RCF librarian must purchase books in two languages. The English Academy children thus have fewer books available to them. The Spanish Immersion children also have fewer books available to them in Spanish but they can take books out in Spanish or English (as can some of our bilingual families). The children who have the fewest library books available are the children who are in the English Academy and only speak English.

Grade level resources are another example of how English Academy children have fewer resources available to them because RCF houses the Immersion program.

In other schools teachers can share materials across the entire grade level. In RCF all materials must be purchased in duplicate so fewer materials are purchased for each program. There is less variety for both English Academy students and Spanish Immersion students when it comes to classroom novels and other classroom resources.

Both programs lose because of this system. The English Academy children have fewer materials available to them than other MCPS Elementary School Students. The Spanish Immersion children also have fewer materials available to them.

The difference is that Spanish Immersion children leave the school with the gift of fluency in a second language.

English Academy children just leave RCF with less exposure to different materials than their peers in other MCPS schools.

Many English Academy parents greatly appreciate the work of Spanish Immersion. Nonetheless, it would take an incredible amount of fundraising and volunteer work to overcome the inequities that housing the Spanish Immersion program causes the homeschool population.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I just think that's BS, with the possible exception of the library.

This makes no sense to me: "In other schools teachers can share materials across the entire grade level. In RCF all materials must be purchased in duplicate so fewer materials are purchased for each program. There is less variety for both English Academy students and Spanish Immersion students when it comes to classroom novels and other classroom resources."

Teachers create and keep their own classroom libraries. I bet the EA teachers share a little, but it's not like in other schools there's some free-flowing river of high quality books from class to class. And as for other materials, the school purchases the curriculum materials -- it's not like other schools have a wider variety in their curriculum; it's all the same.

I would like to know one concrete example of classroom materials, other than possibly library books, that EA students have less of because of the SI program.

[Anonymous]

Classroom libraries are very different than book rooms.

Book rooms might have 26 copies of a single novel like "Where the Red Fern Grows" or "Old Yeller" (or obviously newer books than these examples). The class reads the book together and each child has his/her own copy of the book to use.

In other schools a grade level might have 4 to 6 different sets (or more) of grade appropriate novels so that all children can read the same novel and discuss it in literature circles. At RCF these sets of novels must be purchased in duplicate so instead of having 4 to 6 sets of novels available per grade level, there might only be 2 or 3 sets of different novels available because the novels have to be purchased in duplicate and cannot be shared across the programs.

I think the tone of the dialogue between the two programs might be improved if parents from both programs would ask questions like: "I don't understand how this is possible. Could you please explain?" instead of using phrases such as BS.

[Anonymous]

OK, I take your point on BS. Sorry. I am really upset by the PPs who've made comments like "don't let the door hit you in the a@@ on the way out" but I don't have to stoop to their level.

I understand what you mean about book rooms and this is something I have felt acutely with the SI program. I feel that my DC has never received a rich exposure to literature -- the SI teachers just don't read novels aloud to the kids. I know children in other schools whose teachers read to them daily. The other huge disadvantage is that there's very little Spanish children's literature available -- it's all translations. This means SI kids miss out on a depth of language and cultural reference in Spanish.

However, I can't imagine that this rises to the level of inequity. First of all, since there are only two classes of EA kids per grade, there is not a need for that many multiple sets. Second of all, if this is an issue why hasn't it been cited as such? I have been at RCF for six years and have never heard this issue raised. I love the book fairs and would have been glad to donate books to the program, just as one example. But it's never been asked.

A set of scholastic novels for a classroom would cost around $100. If this were really a hardship, why not get it on the PTA agenda? There were parents trying to raise thousands for extra computers -- surely this wouldn't be a stretch. I would write a check for $100 right now to buy a set of books for any classroom you could name, EA or SI.

I just don't see how a few hundred dollars for some paperback books represents inequity. To me, that's more a problem with the overall leadership of the school -- why isn't this an issue on the table, from the administration or the PTA?

[Anonymous]

Only a second to explain further.

It is not an inequity in resources between the English Academy and the Spanish Immersion program. Both programs are short-changed when it comes to the variety and depth of materials. The difference is that Spanish Immersion students at least gain a second language. English Academy children go to Westland without a second language and without the same types of literature experiences that other MCPS students receive. The inequity comes in that the English Academy children are exposed to much less variety than their other MCPS peers and without any type of benefit. It's lose-lose for the English Academy students.

I have the greatest respect for the RCF staff and administration. It is impossible to lead a school with essentially competing programs. The English Academy parents will always feel that they are shortchanged until they have a special program like the IBC program for primary grades or a technology program. It is just the nature of the school.

Additionally the language used on this forum is repeated in the school yard. Children in the English Academy have been teased for being in the "English Immersion" program. Some have been told that they are not special enough to be in the Spanish Immersion.

I am certain that the administration would love to focus on enriching the literature program for both the Immersion and Academy students but they are too busy putting out other fires.

I didn't see the post where the Academy parent was disrespectful but I apologize for that. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. However, this attitude comes from years of having to tell our children "You're special too." The other kids just had their name pulled out of a hat.

As for why the materials issue hasn't been brought up before, it has. It is brought up over and over again periodically but then gets drowned out by bussing, or bullying, or other topics that attract more attention. There are so many important issues that it is sometimes difficult to get parents excited about variety of novels in the fourth or fifth grade.

As for your offer to donate money for books, you might want to gather a core group of parents and raise enough funds to purchase one additional set of books for an entire grade. You could approach the grade level team leader and provide the team leader a budget. Ask the team leader to consult with the teachers to determine what set of books they would like in Spanish and what set of books they would like in English. Sometimes well intentioned parents purchase items for the school without asking for teacher input. That is just a recipe for disaster. A good time to catch the team leaders is at the School Improvement meetings. The meetings are once a month and all the grade level team leaders attend.

[Anonymous]

16:58 - the OP included the link to the Board's memorandum from 10/15; in the attachment it shows that 79 out of 106 students currently enrolled in Westland's immersion program are from outside the B-CC boundary. 27 are within boundary. That seems like more than "a few" students are at Westland for immersion from outside the boundary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I take your point on BS. Sorry. I am really upset by the PPs who've made comments like "don't let the door hit you in the a@@ on the way out" but I don't have to stoop to their level.

To be fair there have been several very nasty posts from SI parent(s) on here and that post was in response. Also, this thread was not started by an RCF EA person. We were minding our own business.

[Anonymous]

Why do I keep reading this thread? It is INFURIATING on so many levels. I completely agree with the poster who said she is indifferent as to where the SI program goes for middle school. Can we all just agree that this is a difficult situation and one that there is probably never going to be agreement on? Let it go people. Do the best you can with the situation at hand. If you feel the need to do a letter writing campaign and express your views to the BOE, then do that. If you don't want to participate in that campaign, then don't. Just please stop the madness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do I keep reading this thread? It is INFURIATING on so many levels. I completely agree with the poster who said she is indifferent as to where the SI program goes for middle school. Can we all just agree that this is a difficult situation and one that there is probably never going to be agreement on? Let it go people. Do the best you can with the situation at hand. If you feel the need to do a letter writing campaign and express your views to the BOE, then do that. If you don't want to participate in that campaign, then don't. Just please stop the madness.

Thank you very much for this thoughtful comment. As an SI parent, I had no idea there were concerns or resentment by the EA community regarding library books or any other aspect of the program. The class sizes of SI are much larger, and this might have lead to some greater attention regarding resources but I do not know this for certain. These concerns will be there regardless of whether students remain in the cluster and they should be discussed without question because I believe it is one school. It is harder for some SI parents to get to know others because they live further away, but every nearly every parent in the school that I have spoken with believes that RCF is a special and safe learning place for their children. I believe this foundation of learning continues at Westland, and that is why I am committed to having my child continue there and it makes me sad to think that other parents are indifferent to the concerns of other parents. I think there is a lot we can agree upon, and I hope there is more in-person dialogue at the school.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP that this topic has been thoroughly explored. However, 11:20 refered to RCF as a "special and safe learning place for their children. I believe this foundation of learning continues at Westland, and that is why I am committed to having my child continue there. . . " I may be reading into it but it implies to me that "special and safe learning" would not be available at SSIMS. I don't have a child who might move but please be careful not to make your arguments about SES. If the option of continuing immersion at Westland is even on the table, you dilute it by suggesting that it is somehow uniquely safe, special, etc.

Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Oh please, are you going to start a letter writing campaign for me because fully 1/3 of my child's class in the EA is ESOL, and there are so many different reading groups that nobody gets the attention they deserve, or because 1 of the grades in the EA had to split into a combination class that serves nobody well? Or that there is no money for PAs or other extra help that would benefit every child in that program? Or that even though I moved to the BCC district to send my kids to a good school, I'm now considering either moving or putting my kids in private school? No, I'm guessing you're not. So don't expect me to be anything but indifferent to your cause to keep SI at Westland.

[Anonymous]

This is 12:05 again. That last post was a little over the top, and I apologize. This is just such a frustrating issue, that we can go round and round and round about. I have had kids in this school for 5 years. It has always been this way, and the frustration levels seem to be over the top right now on both sides of the discussion. I've heard that some SI parents feel that they were "pawns" in getting RCF on the agenda for a remodernization. Some EA parents feel that our program will never get the kind of attention it deserves. There are inequities across the board.
My kids have friends in both programs, as do I, and we've worked VERY hard to make that happen. We try very hard to see this as one school, but it really is two housed in one building. Again, I wish we could all just let this go for a while, tempers are flaring and the situation may be a non-issue anyway.