Do Rock Creek Forest parents know about potential changes to SP Immersion, middle school, etc. ?

[Anonymous]

Through the grapevine I've heard the principal refer to out-of-boundary Spanish immersion parents who continue with the program at Westland initially and then pull their kids out of immersion. No doubt the Board is aware as well.

[Anonymous]

I wonder about cluster capacity at the elementary level. If BCC cluster has a capacity deficit of about 700 for elem students, and Rock Creek Forest Elementary has about 300 Spanish immersion students-I think it's 50 for grades K to 5? Then why doesn't the program move out of the cluster at the elementary level? It would save the county money in construction of an addition and/or cost of putting portables on the ground at RHPS and NCCES. Also, why does a school with a current capacity of something like 350 have a special county wide program that accommodates 300 students? I wonder what the cost of this program is when you factor in all the additional portables and the cost of bussing.

[Anonymous]

This makes me sad, as an RCF immersion parent.

I always thought it was really cool that the school had this added dimension. My kids have friends from the community program and the immersion program, which I thought was great. I had no idea that my kids were so unwelcome in the community. Now, all of a sudden, it's clear to me that many English program parents were suspicious of my motives and don't want the program in "their" school anyway.

Frankly, I don't plan to send my kids to Westland anyway -- the commute from where I live is awful and it's a quality of life issue for us. I wanted them to learn another language.

I've heard parents say, "why should our kids suffer from overcrowding so that THEY can pay lower real estate prices?" But there's overcrowding everywhere, even in the east side of the county. I could just as easily say ask why should east county kids, who have fewer advantages, have to suffer from overcrowding if you move 300 kids to a different school? Is it that the community that pays more taxes has more rights? That's not how MCPS operates. And there's not an elementary school in east county that could accommodate an extra 300 kids.

I guess the other answer is to disband the immersion program. Of course it's an additional cost -- but these programs are part of what makes our county world-class. I would hope for more choice, more special programs, more options, not fewer.

[Anonymous]

The promises made to the immersion parents should be kept. We chose this program and not others because of the BCC cluster. Now other choices are not available. Buy a house in the BCC cluster? If any parents in the cluster do not want their kids to go to school with kids from outside the cluster, they should send them to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The promises made to the immersion parents should be kept. We chose this program and not others because of the BCC cluster. Now other choices are not available. Buy a house in the BCC cluster? If any parents in the cluster do not want their kids to go to school with kids from outside the cluster, they should send them to private school.

You chose RCF Spanish immersion because of the BCC cluster? I thought you chose it so your child would be fluent in Spanish.

[Anonymous]

What immersion is: Language immersion is an educational approach in which students are taught the curriculum content through the medium of a second language.

20:27 If you "chose" the RCF program as a way in to another cluster, that is absolutely the wrong reason. Please don't hand the Board another reason to weaken the immersion program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Through the grapevine I've heard the principal refer to out-of-boundary Spanish immersion parents who continue with the program at Westland initially and then pull their kids out of immersion. No doubt the Board is aware as well.

Wonder why they pull them? One shouldn't assume automatically that it's because they were never interested in immersion in the first place. Is immersion weak at Westland? Does it keep the kids segregated? Are they unable to take immersion and orchestra or other particular electives at the same time?

What is the policy for immersion matriculation? Normally, in MCPS if you are in a special program or magnet, you lose your status at a school and must go back to your homeschool if you withdraw from the program that gave you status to transfer to the program/school in the first place. The only exception I'm aware of is if a child has only 1 year left at that particular school, then making the child move back to the homeschool can be considered a hardship. In theory, out-of-boundary parents who pull their kids out of immersion at Westland lose their status at Westland and must go back to the homeschool. Can anyone point me to a written policy that says otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Through the grapevine I've heard the principal refer to out-of-boundary Spanish immersion parents who continue with the program at Westland initially and then pull their kids out of immersion. No doubt the Board is aware as well.

Wonder why they pull them? One shouldn't assume automatically that it's because they were never interested in immersion in the first place. Is immersion weak at Westland? Does it keep the kids segregated? Are they unable to take immersion and orchestra or other particular electives at the same time?

What is the policy for immersion matriculation? Normally, in MCPS if you are in a special program or magnet, you lose your status at a school and must go back to your homeschool if you withdraw from the program that gave you status to transfer to the program/school in the first place. The only exception I'm aware of is if a child has only 1 year left at that particular school, then making the child move back to the homeschool can be considered a hardship. In theory, out-of-boundary parents who pull their kids out of immersion at Westland lose their status at Westland and must go back to the homeschool. Can anyone point me to a written policy that says otherwise?

You are right. You cannot continue at Westland/BCC unless you stay in the immersion program. At the open house for the RCF program the principal made it clear that you should not choose the program to get into the cluster. That said, I met a woman at the open house who was trying to get her kids in because they were in a "bad" elementary school. She wasn't looking ahead to high school- she was just checking out all her options. Our elementary school is very good but we are in the Einstein/DCC cluster and the people in my neighborhood who chose immersion really chose it for the immersion, not for the high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder about cluster capacity at the elementary level. If BCC cluster has a capacity deficit of about 700 for elem students, and Rock Creek Forest Elementary has about 300 Spanish immersion students-I think it's 50 for grades K to 5? Then why doesn't the program move out of the cluster at the elementary level? It would save the county money in construction of an addition and/or cost of putting portables on the ground at RHPS and NCCES. Also, why does a school with a current capacity of something like 350 have a special county wide program that accommodates 300 students? I wonder what the cost of this program is when you factor in all the additional portables and the cost of bussing.

You have to remember that many of these magnet programs were created to accomplish voluntary integration. What is the demographic composition of the immersion program? Consider that in the context of the overall racialFARMS composition of the school and what the composition would be if the immersion program were to be moved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder about cluster capacity at the elementary level. If BCC cluster has a capacity deficit of about 700 for elem students, and Rock Creek Forest Elementary has about 300 Spanish immersion students-I think it's 50 for grades K to 5? Then why doesn't the program move out of the cluster at the elementary level? It would save the county money in construction of an addition and/or cost of putting portables on the ground at RHPS and NCCES. Also, why does a school with a current capacity of something like 350 have a special county wide program that accommodates 300 students? I wonder what the cost of this program is when you factor in all the additional portables and the cost of bussing.

You have to remember that many of these magnet programs were created to accomplish voluntary integration. What is the demographic composition of the immersion program? Consider that in the context of the overall racialFARMS composition of the school and what the composition would be if the immersion program were to be moved.

We don't know what the FARMS of Spanish immersion is vs. FARMS of English Academy. That's a good question to pose to the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder about cluster capacity at the elementary level. If BCC cluster has a capacity deficit of about 700 for elem students, and Rock Creek Forest Elementary has about 300 Spanish immersion students-I think it's 50 for grades K to 5? Then why doesn't the program move out of the cluster at the elementary level? It would save the county money in construction of an addition and/or cost of putting portables on the ground at RHPS and NCCES. Also, why does a school with a current capacity of something like 350 have a special county wide program that accommodates 300 students? I wonder what the cost of this program is when you factor in all the additional portables and the cost of bussing.

You have to remember that many of these magnet programs were created to accomplish voluntary integration. What is the demographic composition of the immersion program? Consider that in the context of the overall racialFARMS composition of the school and what the composition would be if the immersion program were to be moved.

We don't know what the FARMS of Spanish immersion is vs. FARMS of English Academy. That's a good question to pose to the principal.

It's not just FARMS, unfortunately, the issue is also race. One needs to know the racial and in/out of RCF boundary makeup of the immersion program to assess how immersion contributes to the integration of the school. Right now, even with the immersion program, RCF has the highest minority and FARMS population in the cluster.

Based on a PP's estimate that 300 students are in the immersion program and figures from the recent CIP, if the immersion program is 50% white and immersion is moved to another school, then the percentage of white students at RCF drops from 44% to 36%. If the immersion program is 80% white and immersion is moved to another school, then the percentage of white students at RCF drops from 44% to 0%. (Of course, these rough estimates would be improved by knowing what percentage of the immersion students are in-boundary for RCF.)

The bottom line is that if you remove immersion from RCF you are probably making a significant impact on the racial balance at RCF.

I would love to hear from an RCF parent with solid numbers for RCF who could show otherwise, because that would mean that the community has grown more integrated over time in terms of in-boundary demographic housing patterns. That would be a good thing!

[Anonymous]

RCF parent here. I don't have solid numbers but my guess is that the neighborhood program is about 40% white, 30% latino and 30% African American.

The school draws from a lot of apartment complexes where there are many newer immigrants -- so there's a variety of cultural backgrounds, which is one of the great things about the school. Our international night is really cool, and all the kids accept and appreciate the diversity of the school (although they might not know to call it that.)

The immersion program is probably 70 - 80% white/European background. What's more important, though, is that the immersion kids almost uniformly come from families who are highly motivated regarding education and have a more international perspective. Otherwise, they wouldn't go to all the trouble of applying and schlepping their kid to RCF.

It is very true that if you take the immersion out of RCF, the concentration of kids who need extra support due to issues with poverty, English-learning, etc., is going to rise. The PTA participation will drop. Fundraising will drop, which is an advantage for all kids in the school. Demand for services will rise. School test scores and AYP will decline, meaning that more and more time will have to be devoted to teaching to the test.

And while I don't think anyone is considering moving the elementary immersion program from RCF, it is true that barriers like paid bussing and lack of access to continuation at Westland will hurt the program.

I think the parents who are beginning to show their hostility to the magnet program and, in some cases, actively working against the interests of the magnet parents, will regret their actions, particularly those with younger kids who will be in the school for awhile.

Even if they don't move the elementary magnet, there are going to be a lot of bad feelings floating around that school.

[Anonymous]

Argh PP here. What I meant is that fundraising benefits all the kids in the school, so it would be bad if it dropped.

[Anonymous]

Moving immersion out of RCF does not seem to be on the table. It would probably require a board action similar to the one passed this week to relocate the Chinese Immersion from College Gardens.

Moving the middle school program out of an overcrowded school such as Westland may not require a board action, especially when there is space available at another nearby location - SSIMS. Which, btw, also has a whole school MYP program, excellent staff, established pairing with a school in Mexico. If immersion is the priority, what's the problem with that?

[Anonymous]

I don't personally have a problem with SSIMS -- I know lots of kids who go there and whose parents say good things about it. And we did not intend to continue in immersion anyway, so it's a non-issue for us.

However, like it or not, many parents have made decisions about their kids' schooling based on their understanding of the option to continue on to Westland. Such a change should be undertaken with transparency, openness, and the willingness to consider the immersion parents' position without a lot of accusations of trying to "game the system," which is what's happening now.

And I am really unhappy with the way the PTA is handling the whole issue. There are neighborhood parents who are acting like the immersion kids are these sneaky interlopers, rather than the schoolmates of their children. My children participate in some after-school activities where the group is mixed immersion/nonimmersion, and the hostility and resentment from some neighborhood parents is becoming depressingly evident. After so many years at the school, it's really disheartening to see.