Do Rock Creek Forest parents know about potential changes to SP Immersion, middle school, etc. ?
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Anonymous
Interesting perspective on BCC, thank you. Can you expand on why it has a reputation as a great place to study language? Do you think another aspect of SSIMS/Key students seeking to stay in the BCC cluster is the high school assignment process for SSIMS/Key? I am assuming that SSIMS/Key are part of the DCC? If so, I can say that I personally would seek the stability of knowing what high school the child would attend over the gamble that my immersion child might or might not get into an IB program in the DCC. For me, this is a major reason why I never moved to the DCC area even though there are many affordable, diverse neighborhoods I liked. The immersion numbers at SSIMS should be carefully thought thru. If SSIMS got all 80 OOB students from Westland immersion, the SP program would suddenly rise to 100 students or 4 classes. Then it would really dwarf the FR program, and I would fear that this would contribute to the dynamic that "everyone takes SP." IMO, I think it's important to preserve the diversity of languages taught in the MoCo system, but I acknowledge that there are other views. Again, there could be issues with having some kids come from full immersion and others from partial. I have not heard this addressed at all by Weast or the BoE, particularly O'Neill, both of whom seem only interested in the numbers and capacity. As for the disciplinary issues I wondered about, I mentioned it because I use the school safety data as a basic screen when I look at schools I would consider for my child. I don't understand the link you provided, as it seems to be only for elementary schools, but I looked at this data for Westland and SSIMS. http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/SafetyGlance/currentyear/schools/03647.pdf and http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/SafetyGlance/currentyear/schools/03412.pdf. In some ways SSIMS and Westland seem similar -- similar rates of suspension and both have fights/disrespect, etc., the latter of which I guess I expect at any middle or high school. But two categories are quite different about SSIMS and Westland and are major red flags for me as a parent -- SSIMS had 6 suspensions related to weapons (Westland, none) and SSIMS had 5 suspensions related to sexual offenses (Westland, none). For me, the nature of these incidents itself is shocking as well as the fact that they are not isolated incidents or flukes. For example, Westland had an arson/fire/explosive and sexual offense suspensions, both of which I find shocking, but at least they were isolated incidents. So, this is what I meant by suggesting that maybe parents were looking to place kids elsewhere for middle school if SSIMS had disciplinary issues. (Which even you seem to suggest/agree since you note that the administration has worked hard to "steadily improve behavior". It can often take time for parents to see and believe that this kind of improvement is permanent and make changes in where they want to send their kids.) |
Anonymous
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PP, I agree that those incidents are shocking and should be taken very seriously.
However, it should be noted that many high-profile school violence incidents are at upper SES schools -- look at Columbine or that kid in Bethesda with a cache of weapons and explosives. There are probably more kids at west county schools who are injured in drunk driving incidents, etc. I guess my point is that there are issues in both areas and you can't guarantee that your child won't face difficulties by looking at statistics. |
Anonymous
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PP here.
My impression of B-CC's language program is based on the number of languages traditionally taught and the existence of the language lab. Also, because IB includes just three languages (Chinese, French, and Spanish), that suggests an IB school will have depth in each language they offer. Blair by comparison has more recently added some strategic languages - Japanese and Arabic. It is having trouble holding on to Latin and French sections as students are drawn to the new offerings. And while the school is just 12 years old, it was built without a language lab; even if one could be funded (B-CC's ed foundation raised $65K for the lab; Blair does not have and ed foundation or that fundraising capacity) there is no space available. SSIMS is in the downcounty consoritum and Key in the NE consortium. There is stability within the consortia since students are guaranteed a space in their base area school. The choice process allows some mobility as well since they can request reassignment to a school that has a program of interest. The difference is that students do not all feed into one high school, which can be good or not good if you are 14! Thanks for sharing the links to the more detailed suspension data by school which I have never seen. The link I provided includes just the summary information; you have to scroll past elementary school pages to get to middle and then high school. The data is certainly worth reviewing. As a parent, I would also be concerned about significantly higher-than-average rates among African American, FARMs, and Hispanic students at Westland. I think that raises questions about the school's ability to support students from diverse backgrounds which also has a negative effect on school climate. Of course, Westland is hardly alone but SSIMS by contrast has been very effective in setting high expectations for all students in terms of behavior and performance and supporting them as well. You are certainly right to say that perception lags. Before the new principal started five years ago, the school was mainly known for administrative turnover. It became too highly visible and there is every reason for the central office to continue its support of the school given the impacts (though there is now an interim in place since the principal was pulled in to central office this fall). As for French vs. Spanish enrollment in immersion, that is a complete non-issue from my perspective. |
Anonymous
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About those safety stats -- there were 13 such suspensions at SSIMS and 35 at Westland? There must have been multiple offenders, because the total per capita suspension rate is pretty much the same.
Anyway, given those numbers and absent any data about what actually happened, you'd be hard pressed to make the case that SSIMS is more dangerous than Westland! |
Anonymous
| It just infuriates me that Weast always pulls the best and most effective principals into central office functions. I've seen it happen several times. |
Anonymous
Agreed. Major school violence can be unpredictable. But the fact that it COULD happen anywhere doesn't make me want to send my child to about a school where I KNOW weapons possession has led to a half dozen suspensions. Agreed also that other issues, like drunk driving, might be more prevalent in other areas of the county. But, I can look at statistics and say, "I don't want my children in an environment where that has happened in the past." "That" for each parent is different. And, I am somewhat limited in my ability to keep my child out of an environment where I know inappropriate behavior has gone in the past by my income and housing opportunities and flexibility and .... magnet opportunities in other schools. |
Anonymous
10:58 here -- I agree that differentials in the suspension rate among subgroups is cause for serious school self-examination. |
Anonymous
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15:28 Not the weapons suspension should be taken lightly, but that critereon would also eliminate schools with SES comparable or higher than Westland - Pyle (1), Frost (3) - and the magnets at Eastern (2) and Takoma (3) according to each school's 2008–2009 Number of Out-of-School Suspension Incidents Related to School Safety. As far as the school system is concerned, a kid with a weapons viaolaiton is automatically out of MCPS for the rest of their school career.
The real difference seems to show up in high school. B-CC and Whitman are islands of calm compared to downcounty schools. |
Anonymous
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I have to agree with the 6:35 post. This seems to be a non-issue. If immersion parents enroll their children in the RCF program for the opportunity to become fluent in Spanish - then where the instruction is provided should NOT be an issue.
As for RCF neighborhood families throwing their fellow students under the bus - I don't think that is the case. I think it is more indifference. The neighborhood families just aren't fighting to keep the Spanish Immersion children in the BCC cluster. The neighborhood families are indifferent because there is very little interaction between the two programs. The kids might play together at Kids Adventure (before and after school care) or be on the same county soccer or basketball team - but other than these outside of school activities - I've seen very little interaction between children from the two programs. It really is as if there are two schools housed in one building. I would have been happy to send my children to Silver Spring International School - if they had been given the chance to be in the Spanish Immersion program. Bottom Line: Either the SI parents are in it for the program (and thus location doesn't matter) or they are in it as a ticket to get to the BCC cluster. They can't have it both ways. |
Anonymous
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I'm an RCF immersion parent but I don't plan to have DC continue in immersion for middle school, so this is a non-issue for me.
However, I'm really surprised at the vitriol I see hear from the EA parents -- it's kind of shocking to think that I could be at a meeting or on the playground next to people (I know it may only be a few) who have such hostility for me and my child just because we happened to get in to a lottery. |
Anonymous
There are many reasons for parents to enroll their children in the RCF SI program beyond the spanish, and it is not improper to consider where the children will go after RCF. I can tell you with certainty that the kids in both programs interact a lot. It is not two schools in one, any more than any single classroom in any elementary school can be considered its own school. The friendships continue and blossom in middle school, and those friendships and connections with all peers will be lost by suddenly sending them now to different schools. I have read every message twice, and there is no consideration given to the impact of the students to the disruption in their lives. Seriously, what is the objection to having a very few additional students in the BCC cluster as promised? |
Anonymous
| PP, the truth is, this is a way for Weast to SAY he's addressing overcrowding issues in a way that he thinks no one will object to, when in reality it has little impact on the overcrowding but a LOT of impact to a few families. |
Anonymous
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16:54 Wrote: "However, I'm really surprised at the vitriol I see hear from the EA parents -- it's kind of shocking to think that I could be at a meeting or on the playground next to people (I know it may only be a few) who have such hostility for me and my child just because we happened to get in to a lottery." You support the point that SI parents don't know EA parents. EA parents don't dislike SI kids or the program. For the most part we are just indifferent. There may be a few parents with axes to grind - but most of us just don't care. We just don't care because - for the most part - SI families treat us like we are the "poor EA families" and they never get to know us. Please know that we aren't against the program and we definitely do not have hostility toward the children - we just don't want to be used. The two programs don't mix - so please don't use us (or school unity) as an excuse to keep the kids together in Westland. |
Anonymous
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I posted at 17:35 and I must clarify something -
I misread an earlier post and thought the person said "I know only a few EA parents" but she was stating that there were only a few hostile parents - sorry for misreading this! There probably a few hostile parents - but most just don't care. You don't support my point that SI parents don't try to get to know EA parents. (Sorry!) |
Anonymous
I am sorry that you have not gotten to know many of the parents in the SI program. I expect that you do not know many EA parents outside of your child's class. This is about the children, who will be torn from their classmates for no reason at all. Some of the SI students already live in the cluster, so the number of students impacted will be quite small. Why is the presence of a two dozen non-cluster lottery students so resented? It makes just as much sense to send send some students from another elementary school in the cluster to SSIMS. Of course this would never happen to the entitled and connected families in the BCC cluster. |